Marcus Impudite Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Recently I was building a character and opened FRED for the handcuffs write-up in the side bar on page 109 when something occured to me that I hadn't thought about prior: the "Can Be Escaped Automatically With A Modified Lockpicking Or Contortionist Roll (-1/2)" limitation. Are those modifiers positive or negative? I can't really speak for the contortionist part of this, but- according to a friend of mine who's a locksmith- handcuffs are barnone the easiest locks to pick. And I didn't just have to take his word for it, I've actually seen him open a pair of cuffs instantly with nothing but one of those little precision screwdrivers. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Sounds like a +2 to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 If you were to take a hypothetical -1/4 "Real Handcuffs" Limitation on them, then yeah, probably +2 or more. Otherwise, probably just unmodified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugfromthearth Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I think you are confused the -1/2 is a -.5 limitation it is not a modifier to the contortionist or lockpicking roll (I think you think that it is -1 to lockpicking skill and -2 to contortionist) there is no modifier to the skill rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by dugfromthearth I think you are confused the -1/2 is a -.5 limitation it is not a modifier to the contortionist or lockpicking roll (I think you think that it is -1 to lockpicking skill and -2 to contortionist) there is no modifier to the skill rolls. Aaaah, so that´s what he meant! But as handcuffs are really easy to pick (as per example), and as the write-up says Modified Skill, I´d still say +2 . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by dugfromthearth I think you are confused the -1/2 is a -.5 limitation it is not a modifier to the contortionist or lockpicking roll (I think you think that it is -1 to lockpicking skill and -2 to contortionist) there is no modifier to the skill rolls. No, I know the -1/2 is the limitation value. I was asking if the Lockpicking roll the limitation calls for gets a positive or negative modifier to open the lock. Considering the fact that my friend popped them open in less than a second (and even taught me how to do it), I would call that a +3 or a +5 and I'm figuring the the limitation value should be more than 1/2; maybe 3/4 or 1. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Keep in mind that handcuffs are not simple to get out of if they have been locked. Most of the time people are detained in handcuffs in the restraint mode not the locked mode. The restraint mode can be "jimmied" by using any long, reasonably-flat device like the screwdriver mentioned above. In locked mode nothing short of a saw will get them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Monolith Keep in mind that handcuffs are not simple to get out of if they have been locked. Most of the time people are detained in handcuffs in the restraint mode not the locked mode. The restraint mode can be "jimmied" by using any long, reasonably-flat device like the screwdriver mentioned above. In locked mode nothing short of a saw will get them off. Restraint mode and locked mode? That's interresting, I'll have to ask him about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Marcus Impudite Restraint mode and locked mode? That's interresting, I'll have to ask him about that. Restraint mode is when the handcuffs are just closed around the hand and you hear the clicks. That can be opened by inserting something up the handcuff and forcing the compression lever open. You can then pull the pivit bar out. Locked mode is when the officer inserts the key into the handcuff and locks the compression lever so that it cannot be forced open with a screwdriver. At that point you would need Lockpicking or a saw to get out of the handcuffs. Any time an officer actually arrests someone they are required to put the handcuffs in locked mode. Of course the police do not normally allow people in restraint mode to handle or carry screwdrivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Also remember that while it might be easy to pick the lock from the outside, if your hands are actualy in them, behind your back, they will be considerably harder to pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Monolith, thank you for allowing me to once again say" I learn something new every day!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted February 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Anyway, Roger gets alot of emergency pages from couples in the area who are into the -ahem- kinky stuff and have an uncanny talent for losing or misplacing their keys. On every call he's told me about thus far he always manages to open the cuffs that easy, so if Monolith is right about the restraint mode/locked mode I guess they just don't know how to lock'em properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by Marcus Impudite Anyway, Roger gets alot of emergency pages from couples in the area who are into the -ahem- kinky stuff and have an uncanny talent for losing or misplacing their keys. On every call he's told me about thus far he always manages to open the cuffs that easy, so if Monolith is right about the restraint mode/locked mode I guess they just don't know how to lock'em properly. First off, sex-cuffs are not the same things that what the police use. Secondly, most people do not know you can insert a screwdriver into the chamber to open the cuffs. They think they need the key to open the catch lever. But when the cuffs are secured and then locked they cannot be upen by a screwdriver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted February 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I suppose you're right, at $9 a pair you can't expect too much. So you're saying a high-end pair of cuffs like the police use would give a minus on the Lockpicking roll in locked mode? How big a modifier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by Marcus Impudite I suppose you're right, at $9 a pair you can't expect too much. So you're saying a high-end pair of cuffs like the police use would give a minus on the Lockpicking roll in locked mode? How big a modifier? In restraint mode I'd consider it to be Lockpicking +3. In locked mode I'd consider it to be Lockpicking -2. The round key used by police is more difficult to simulate with picks than a standard lock. Of course extra time offsets that, but you would have behind the back penalties in most cases as well. IIRC the handcuffs are 3d6 and +3 DEF. There are many people who either due to drugs or just raw power have broken the chain in handcuffs as well. There was even a documented case where someone broke out of two sets. Maybe that is the a Lockpicking SFX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caped Crusader Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Howzabout a visual aid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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