Metaphysician Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 A Master Villain is a villain who poses a credible threat to the entire world. Officially, the following are Master Villains: -Doctor Destroyer -Menton -Istvatha V'Han -Takofanes the Undying -Gravitar -The Warlord -Teleios the Perfect Man -Mechanon Who else in Champions canon do you think would qualify as a Master Villain?? Alternatively, do you dispute the placement of any of the above in said list?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayoman Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Foxbat! At least in his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 I don't think I would class Teleios as a "master villain" according to your definition. Although he has the capability to breed armies rapidly, he's not really interested in conquest or destruction. OTOH there are a few other canon villains who probably would qualify: Dr. Yin Wu Tyrannon the Conqueror Dark Seraph (with the other Crowns of Krim, and because of his plan to summon Krim to Earth). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Shoudn't the Supreme Serpent make it to that list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Solomon Shoudn't the Supreme Serpent make it to that list? That's an interesting question. Does the leader of a world-threatening organization count as a "master villain" on his own, irregardless of the forces surrounding him? The thing that's different about the Supreme Serpent is that VIPER existed before him, and would likely continue without him should he be eliminated. OTOH Dr. Destroyer's minions, or the Warlord's War Machine team and Shadow Army, essentially exist to serve their leader's goals and ambitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 The Supreme Serpent is credited with restoring VIPER to world-level threath after the Cottonmouth Incident; though I agree VIPER would probably still be a credible menace even without him now. Besides, if Metaphysician is asking for an "official" list of Master Villains, I'd say the Supreme Serpent doesn't make it; I think most law enforcment agencies see him as a mere figurehead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Actually, I meant it more as a clever turn of phrase than anything else. And me, I do peg the Supreme Serpent as a Master Villain. While VIPER certainly would exist without him, now that he is around, VIPER is more or less his "weapon," with him aiming and firing it to his will. I'd also peg both Dark Seraph and Fiacho as Master Villains. Dark Seraph has boatloads of personal power not too far short of Gravitar, a whole team that is more or less under his control, and plot device ritual magic. Fiacho has a similarly mostly-loyal team, and makes up for lesser overall power with considerable skill at terrorist tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 As Teleios has Megalomania as a disadvantage....and it's stated he is interested in world conquest in his description(if only to more freely experiment), I'd definitely say he's a master villain. Besides, he opereates like one. I might also add Interface from Champions Battlegrounds to that list as well. And King Cobra will most likely fit that description too. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPER Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 What about Binder / Ultimate Master Mind from The Ultimates? Or does he no longer exists in the CU (I'm a bit behind in my supplements) V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Binder still exists, but I think he and the Ultimates fall under the Master Villain threshold. Mostly because they have no interest in world conquest or destruction at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynthiaCM Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 More... These aren't Champions Universe master villains, but since Omlevex is dual-statted for Hero, I figured I'd make a list of the ones from there. Jonah Crimson Catastrophe Liege Lord The Dehumanizer Lazer Man Grunn, Bridger of a Thousand Worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPER Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hi Metaphysician I don't know what CKC (or other recent supplements) has to say about the Ultimates, but I am assuming from your reply that their attitude has changed. I know that in the earlier Enemies Assemble!, Binder becomes the Ultimate Master Mind, who was described as wanting to become the most powerful being on earth. The other ultimates in that supplement (except Slick) were described as research nuts who sought scientific secrets as a means of control over the laws of nature, and "Once that is achieved, then control of the earth and all those living upon it is a mere afterthought." So, at least they used to be interested in world conquest, via scientific research. V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug McCrae Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 I'd take Gravitar off the list. At present she doesn't pose a credible threat to the whole world - only bits of it. If she found a way to boost her power OTOH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Most of the Ultimates are scientific in origin, but they aren't really interested in world conquest or control. They mostly want either vengeance against somebody who wronged them, or money. And I'm inclined to keep Gravitar on the list, if only because of her capability to trash basically any conventional military force, or wreck an entire city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician And I'm inclined to keep Gravitar on the list, if only because of her capability to trash basically any conventional military force, or wreck an entire city. Gravitar has intelligence, skill, scientific knowledge, connections, and wealth out the wazoo, in addition to her impressively broad suite of very formidable powers. All she really needs is to mature enough to realize she can't dominate the world without a serious plan. On the day that penny drops, the world will be in serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 As a side note, what about (as plot seeds suggest) a team-up between Gravitar, Holocaust and Viperia (the real "Ultimates") ?? I pity the city where they would show up. And worse yet, what if the former coupling results in an affair that is ehm, blessed with offspring?? The resulting child might easily give Frankin Richards and Jenny Quantum a run for their lives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haerandir Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Wanderer As a side note, what about (as plot seeds suggest) a team-up between Gravitar, Holocaust and Viperia (the real "Ultimates") ?? I pity the city where they would show up. Holocaust probably belongs on the list. He's individually powerful (like Gravitar), and has wealth, megalomaniacal ambitions, political skills and contacts, though he's a little bit lacking in the fanatical follower department. Plus, he's described as a 'master villain' in his 'Campaign Use' notes, albeit a second-stringer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 One of Holocaust's plot seeds from CKC has him becoming involved romantically with Gravitar. In a lot of ways they are the perfect couple: their backgrounds and attitudes are remarkably similar. Their real problem is their mutual enormous egos - conflict over who gets to be in charge is inevitable. Viperia, OTOH, would never go along with either of them; she obeys only her father and his representatives. I've started working the first two of these into my campaign as an on-again off-again partnership similar to the old Dr. Destroyer/Professor Muerte alliances. Holocaust and Gravitar team up for some scheme (and other side benefits), eventually quarrel and break off to work solo for awhile, then get back together again for another big plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden One of Holocaust's plot seeds from CKC has him becoming involved romantically with Gravitar. In a lot of ways they are the perfect couple: their backgrounds and attitudes are remarkably similar. Their real problem is their mutual enormous egos - conflict over who gets to be in charge is inevitable. They are very likely to get mutually attracted if they meet. They have similar personalities, backgrounds and interests, plus their similar power level let them recognize the other as a similar being, somewhat of a peer. But being both megalomaniacs, quarrels over control are unavoidable. So the most likely result is a on-off relationship as you describe: periodic spells of renewed attraction and closeness, in which they stay and work together, followed by furious quarrels and separation (in many ways, they would behave just like Duncan and Amanda in the Highlander TV series). But enemies beware: even when they are at each other's throats, couples like this are most likely to ultimately close ranks if an outside threat shows up... Viperia, OTOH, would never go along with either of them; she obeys only her father and his representatives. Well, there is a Viperia plot seed where Gravitar befriends her during a mission and convinces her to embark in a common superpowered world-wide shop-and-rob spree "why settle for a Yves St. Laurent origina when you can have Yves St. Laurent himself ?" Hilarious!! While this is has less potential to develop in a strong relationship like the former couple, yet it has the serious psychological motivator of comradeship: Gravitar is one of the few women of the world whom Viperia may interact like a peer, and while the Daughter of the Sun is unlikely to neglect her duties for sake of friendship, her father is likely to see with detached amusement to her getting a little fun in the sideline. I've started working the first two of these into my campaign as an on-again off-again partnership similar to the old Dr. Destroyer/Professor Muerte alliances. Holocaust and Gravitar team up for some scheme (and other side benefits), eventually quarrel and break off to work solo for awhile, then get back together again for another big plan. Them developing a more-or-less permanent, if stormy, relationship has potentially very serious consequences for the CU. Together they have the power of a nuclear arsenal, and very few people may concern them. Even Dr. Destroyer must thread carefully around this couple. The real fun, however, is try and figure how much points their child would need, once his or her powers activate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Wanderer The real fun, however, is try and figure how much points their child would need, once his or her powers activate... I can't believe I didn't think about the possibility of offspring! If Gravitar had a child with Holocaust, and that child inherited the powers of BOTH parents... How many years until the end of the age of superheroes in the CU? Sixteen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Nah, with parents like that, the kid is inevitably going to rebel in his/her teens and become a superhero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Yes, (s)he would probably rebel to the parents lifestyle and choose the superhero's career. But personality does have a genetic base and something from your rearing environment always sticks about, so (s)he is likely to have a solid streak of arrogance and egocentrism, if tempered by a noblesse oblige sense, and be ultimately unsufferable of petty human laws. So the child is bound to be one of those borderline villain anti-heroes, see-sawing between protector of humanity (especially against clear and present global menaces) and rebel against the rule of law (or would-be world conqueror in the name of superior ruling ability). Someone like Magneto, or an Authority member in best cases. Anyway, the CU would have its first really "cosmic" (as in "I can single-handedly crush an alien invasion fleet") super-being. I wonder how such a character might be made available in the present timeline (surely it would be a terrific character for a "galactic champions campaign): hmm, one could always pull the old Marvel/Terminator trick and have him arrive from a time warp to the future, or an alternate dimension. But what could cause such a supremely powerful being to travel?? Classic bits would be: Earth Conquered by a menace even more powerful (Tyrannon ??) or one they could not prevent with all thier power (a plague?); preventing the destruction of the Earth by one's own arrogance or carelessness, or a menace they are related to (who says there is just a single offspring?). Better yet, why not having a whole team of hyper-powered offspring of present time' metahumans arrive from the future?? Besides the child of Gravitar and Holocaust, we could have... the offspring of Firewing and Viperia ! Both have a similar outlook and interests and background, I picture them meeting on the field of combat and dicovering a mutual attraction (the genetic makeup between a Malvan and the magical offspring of a snake god is mind boggling, b ut probably Nama would lend a paw, just to see what could emerge...) Anyone else you see as a good match-up ?? Hmm, probably this deserves a separate thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 We could also have some hero kids, but unfortunately, we don't know anything about the really powerful heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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