JmOz Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Last night while I was at work I was thinking about my current character, and his 5 xp he has unspent. I came up with two new powers for him: as part of his costume, Ear plugs 5 points flash defense (Hearing) then as part of his MP a simple LS: Need not breath, oif, fuel charges I had one point left over, and I kind of wanted to get him a little bit away from the Batman/Green Arrow thing he has going. I came up with this, while it is a little bit more pricey than I have, I will have it at the end of next week. Also note while I will run it by my experienced GM, I expect him to say HELL NO, as that is what my call would be. Flight Sled: Flight 10" OIF, 1 Fuel Charge lasting 5 hours, total cost in his MP is 2 points (Note I do not think the power itself is bad, just puting it in a MP makes it abusive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 What's the special effects of the multipower? If it's a bat-gear-like gadget multipower it's perfectly inline with the MP's special effects. 10" flight is nothing particularily special. Now, if this flight sled is too big for him to cart around all the time, that could be a problem, but that's easy to fix by saying it's collapsible, which is within comic book science parameters. A fuel charge lasting 5 hours can be dispelled -- anything that causes the power to turn off other than you deliberately turning it off means the entire charge is spent. Thus, if the GM wants your flight power to go away, it's easily arranged. Some GMs might also enforce a restriction that if you don't have the AP allocated to that slot, then you're concentrating on stuff other than maneuvering the sled -- i.e. you're on autopilot, you have to specify a destination and the sled will take you there in a straight line at 10"/phase, which may not be the most useful thing in the world. This probably won't do wonders for your DCV either. What specific problem did you foresee? I don't see anything that would cause me to reject the power out of hand, though some common sense limits may be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Maybe I'm missing something in the fine print, but why is this even remotely abusive? -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 If you're a Batmanny type, just call it a pair of belt jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 First of all the F/X is a combination of UT Belt like items and Arrows Originally posted by austenandrews Maybe I'm missing something in the fine print, but why is this even remotely abusive? -AA Character activates Flights sled on phase 12, Phase 2 he switches to an attack, for the rest of the combat the charactger gets the power of flight for just a couple of points, while using his MP that it is in freely, because of the fuel charges It is in essense getting a 20-30 something power for 2 points, but having to take the first phase to activate it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubist Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Well, as Zed mentioned, this can be easily resolved simply by hitting you with a Heavy Air spell(or similar effect) that dispells your fight and theen your whole charge is gone, so there are down sides to using this method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Ah, I see what you're saying. I made the assumption that he wouldn't get to use the power unless his MP points were allocated, which is the same assumption I'd make if I were his GM. You're right, arguing for anything else would be arguing for abuse. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by austenandrews Ah, I see what you're saying. I made the assumption that he wouldn't get to use the power unless his MP points were allocated, which is the same assumption I'd make if I were his GM. You're right, arguing for anything else would be arguing for abuse. -AA Agreed, HOWEVER, by a strict rules reading it is legal... I think I would have better luck building it as a summons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by JmOz I think I would have better luck building it as a summons Transform: Air into Flight Power. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzinbane Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Green Arrow or Hawkeye or some archer I have seen in my 30 odd years of reading comics had an arrow that allowed some limited swinging ability. I think maybe I have seen one also with an arrow having a rocket or something in it that allowed some flight. I too don't see the MP addition as being too out there provided you can explain how it works. Mad thinker had gravity disks as a gismo... very slow flight that sounds kinda like what you have suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Flight in a MP is not abusive, Flight in a MP that you can activate and then use without allocating MP reserve points towards it is abusive IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Again, I don't think it's abusive, if there are some reasonable limits on how much control you have over the power when you don't have AP allocated to it. Otherwise, things like smoke bombs would be impossible -- how'd you like to throw your continuing charge darkness attack from your OIF utility belt and then not be able to switch to a different type of grenade, or fire your gun that is attached to the belt via a lanyard?? It's not unreasonable to have something with a continuing charge continue to work even though you don't have AP allocated to it at the moment. BUT, you can't do whatever you want with the power in that case, either. It's pretty much doing whatever it was doing when you turned it on, and that's it. This makes its effects predictable and easy to counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Zed- I agree with you beleive it or not. The problem for me is movement powers, I would also have a problem with defensive powers. Something like a darkness cloud or a Gas bomb is fine and the reason for th rules, as an excuse to get your flight or defense just seems wrong to me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 JmOz, If you want a non-abusive way for this to work, and be worth the points, it can be like an "Escape Pod". As others have suggested, it has to be pre-programmed with a location before "launch". Once you launch, you can either cancel it or go to the specified location, no steering, no changes, you just go there. Also, since it is one charge, it only lasts until it gets you where you programmed it for, at that point it either lands or hovers based on the program. And, once you are there, that's it. Even if there is time left on the Five hours, you have used up the charge. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Actualy my plan for it is simple, I will buy the power OUTSIDE of the MP, or buy it as a vehicle, Either way I need to save up the points for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kolava Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by austenandrews Transform: Air into Flight Power. -AA Extra Dimensional Movement to "Dimension where I have Flight Power" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by KA. And, once you are there, that's it. Even if there is time left on the Five hours, you have used up the charge. Not if it's bought as Fuel Charge. Fuel Charges are used up like, well, fuel -- you get X hours total of operation, even if you're switching it on and off every other minute. It's like a gas tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caped Crusader Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 OK, I see where Fuel Charges allow you to turn it off part-way through the charge duration and still have the remaining time left over and usable. However, I don't see how that would allow the Flight to be used without the MP having Reserve Points allocated to the Flight slot. The Fuel Charges clause doesn't even figure into that part of the equation. If there are no Reserve Points allocated the the Flight slot, it is turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 That is the rules, yup. And I'd rule that if you want to use two slots at once, buy an MP reserve that covers both. The "auto-pilot platform" optional rule was creative, but I think I'll keep it simple if I DM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Caped Crusader OK, I see where Fuel Charges allow you to turn it off part-way through the charge duration and still have the remaining time left over and usable. However, I don't see how that would allow the Flight to be used without the MP having Reserve Points allocated to the Flight slot. The Fuel Charges clause doesn't even figure into that part of the equation. If there are no Reserve Points allocated the the Flight slot, it is turned off. Caped Crusader: Read continuing charges and how they react to MP. The rule actualy exists for things like smoke bombs or what have you that you would normaly fire off and it would effect the area for a few minutes. Like I said the rule is a great idea for some things but breaks when used for movement and defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Kolava Extra Dimensional Movement to "Dimension where I have Flight Power" Did someone buy Pattern while I was't looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadWand Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 It's been mentioned that using continuing charges inside a multipower for movement or defensive powers is potientially abusive. I'm not sure I agree -- what of the case when a hero has a multipower of spells, each spell with charges (similar to D&D spells)? A spellcaster might want to cast a "Fly" or "Mage Armor" spell, once a day each, for 1 hour. This seems like a legitimate use of such a construction. Would you not allow a spellcaster to cast spells while his "Mage Armor" spell is up? It's a difficult question, although I can see where some people might have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 True, it would have some uses. I would speculate that it is the inclusion of Fuel on the charge that truly causes the problems...Interesting stuff when you start getting philisophical on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caped Crusader Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Read continuing charges and how they react to MP. The rule actualy exists for things like smoke bombs or what have you that you would normaly fire off and it would effect the area for a few minutes. Like I said the rule is a great idea for some things but breaks when used for movement and defense Yep, I had missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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