RPG.net

[L. Marcus]

Re: RPG.net

 

Reminds me of some of the NGD political threads.

And no, I don't think you were being offensive.,

Same here. But I got this feeling that you were talking at cross-purouses (or whatever the expression. Not actually talking about the same thing?)

[tesuji]

Re: RPG.net

 

It is just that these people are nuts.

Every post ever made by a fan of hero has always been polite, courteous, and infallibly accurate.

Its just one great conspiracy of anti-hero bashers.

really, it is.

 

On a more serious note, i can probably cull out dozens of posts i got from these boards about how rude it is to come here and make negative comments about hero... this being a hero fan site of course.

 

Should i be surprised to find the same hero guys and more fretting about people with negative hero comments posting them elsewhere?

 

Mark, in the thread you are on, do you really feel the hero protagonists are outnumbered by the anti-hero axis-of-0evil guys? I certainly dont feel like its a small cadre of freedom lobing hero soldiers against some vast right-wing conspiracy in that thread..

 

 

 

Aaagh! I'm starting to see what people mean by the hostility towards HERO on RPG.net. Do me a favour guys and read my exchanges with Topher v2.0 and tesuji starting on this page - http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111266&perpage=10&pagenumber=29 - and tell me if I'm actually being offensive' date=' arrogant or misrepresenting HERO System in anyway - because I really don't think I am - or if these people are just ~&*$#!^ nuts![/quote']

[neverrob]

(Mark Taylor)Bit of a question regarding your post on RPGnet

 

I didn't want to post it in the thread there for fear of it getting lost in the melee. I am C&Ping the text here for others:

 

I'm not sure why this is such a sticking point for some people. Hero might not be able to literally do ANYTHING without some house ruling, but it comes closer than most other systems, and that's one of the things many HERO fans like best about it.

 

A concrete example - many years ago I built a fantasy world which could not easily be modelled by any RPG system I was aware of at the time. This was because the styles, methods and rituals of practicing magic on this world varied wildly from nation to nation and culture to culture - much like languages in the real world. This meant I'd need not just one magic system to represent magic in my world, but several, to represent the profound differences in how magic was practised in different cultures. I only discovered HERO System about a year ago - but it didn't take me long to realise that I could finally represent the world I had designed all these years ago with a published game system.

 

Over the years I've GMed at least a dozen different game systems, and played far more than I can be bothered to count. I have around 25 game systems sitting on my bookshelves. HERO is the first that really enabled me to realise a long-time vision easily - without months or years of solid work building my own systems. If I happen to want to share that experience, I really don't see any reason why I should be slammed for it.

 

BTW, you are handling yourself very courteously.

 

I could be wrong in my assumption, but when you say you are creating wildly variant magical styles, you aren't creating new mechanics outside of HERO, just the narrative trappings, descriptors, etc.? Fundamentally, it is a HERO description with spell focuses or reqiured gesture and the like, right? If I am getting it twisted, let me know.

 

I have a soft spot for interesting spell systems, my personal faves being Mage, Ars Magica, Talislanta, HeroQuest, and Unknown Armies. I would love to get under the hood of your magic system. Dunno if I will get to use it, but I do like a good idea to steal

 

rob

[Lowly Uhlan]

Re: RPG.net

 

And now they've closed the Sidekick thread after 30 pages. Civility is impossible on rpg.net.

 

I guess The "silence" on Sidekick has ended only to be silenced again. Seems like an anti-HERO bias to me.

[neverrob]

Nevermind, Mark

 

I got caught out of the loop on that thread and didn't see one of your replies.

 

My Bad. I should have paid more attention.

 

rob

[Mark Taylor]

Re: RPG.net

 

It is just that these people are nuts.

Every post ever made by a fan of hero has always been polite, courteous, and infallibly accurate.

Its just one great conspiracy of anti-hero bashers.

really, it is.

 

On a more serious note, i can probably cull out dozens of posts i got from these boards about how rude it is to come here and make negative comments about hero... this being a hero fan site of course.

 

Should i be surprised to find the same hero guys and more fretting about people with negative hero comments posting them elsewhere?

 

Mark, in the thread you are on, do you really feel the hero protagonists are outnumbered by the anti-hero axis-of-0evil guys? I certainly dont feel like its a small cadre of freedom lobing hero soldiers against some vast right-wing conspiracy in that thread..

 

Outnumbered? Not really. But look again. The fact is the HERO fans are getting slammed even when they are polite, courteous and accurate.

 

As for posting a link to the thread here, this is a thread about RPG.net and the attitude towards HERO gamers there. My post was about as on topic as it gets. Is there a problem with that?

[Mark Taylor]

Re: Nevermind, Mark

 

I got caught out of the loop on that thread and didn't see one of your replies.

 

My Bad. I should have paid more attention.

 

rob

 

No problem - and never fear, I'll be sure to post my work on different magic systems to the Fantasy HERO forum when I'm ready.

[lemming]

Re: RPG.net

 

And now they've closed the Sidekick thread after 30 pages. Civility is impossible on rpg.net.

 

I guess The "silence" on Sidekick has ended only to be silenced again. Seems like an anti-HERO bias to me.

I was trying to figure out why the closing.

Because someone said they bought Sidekick since someone else didn't like it?

And right after some nice constructive Hero positive posts.

[Lowly Uhlan]

Re: RPG.net

 

Aaagh! I'm starting to see what people mean by the hostility towards HERO on RPG.net. Do me a favour guys and read my exchanges with Topher v2.0 and tesuji starting on this page - http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111266&perpage=10&pagenumber=29 - and tell me if I'm actually being offensive' date=' arrogant or misrepresenting HERO System in anyway - because I really don't think I am - or if these people are just ~&*$#!^ nuts![/quote']

 

Nope. You were well spoken and completely non-offensive. Glad to hear your fantasy game worked out.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: RPG.net

 

Nope. You were well spoken and completely non-offensive. Glad to hear your fantasy game worked out.

 

As I mentioned on the thread I haven't finished planning it or started running it yet - I've been busy running two other GURPS campaigns - but thanks. I hope it will work out.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: RPG.net

 

And since you're here and I didn't get a chance to respond to this on RPG.net, let me respond here:

 

Thats easy...

 

it doesn't help me.

 

having HERo tell me armor piercing is half the defense and is worth +1/2 does not help me make an armor piercing weapon. It provides me with a predetermined piece, which MAY or MAY NOT be appropriate or balanced in my built from scratch setting.

 

In the same way, having DND tell me that a fireball spell is 3rd level and does a d6 per caster level MAY or MAY NOT help me. It really depends on whether that dial is appaorpriate for my setting.

 

HERO guys often talk about their unique custom built settings, when in fact, the further you get away from the predefined HERO assumptions about balance, that water breathing is as beneficial as +1 OCv with melee combat for instance, the more unique the campaign is, the more the built in assumptions of value hero makes become inaccurate.

 

Game set on waterworld... water breathing weighs in at better than +1 OCV.

Game set on a desert world, reverse is true.

game set in a world where water breathing will be scripted to be as important as +1 OCV, a mix of terrains and situations... it works out.

 

having a preset formula, which i then need to evaluate for the setting, for every nugget of the game world does not make it easier or even more accurate or reliable. It just makes it take more math.

 

It helps ME. If a power modifier looks wrong for my setting I can change it - and it's still a damn sight quicker and easier than building the rules from scratch. I just have to tweak the occasional value here and there. Much faster, much easier. If it doesn't help you, then I can only assume our minds don't work the same way - but please don't try to tell me it doesn't help me.

[neverrob]

Re: RPG.net

 

I was trying to figure out why the closing.

Because someone said they bought Sidekick since someone else didn't like it?

And right after some nice constructive Hero positive posts.

 

If I am not missreading, it was closed due to personal attacks between some of the participants. Topher, one of the Mods, had made some warnings to stop some behaviors that went unheeded. So the thread got closed.

 

On a side note: I will pick up Sidekick as an attempt to bring my more tactical friend back to the table. More systems=more options.

 

rob

93 corebooks and counting...even after a ceiling collapse and a selloff...

[nexus]

Re: RPG.net

 

Well, at least I think I got my answer about Rpg.net...

[Lowly Uhlan]

Re: RPG.net

 

I was trying to figure out why the closing.

Because someone said they bought Sidekick since someone else didn't like it?

And right after some nice constructive Hero positive posts.

 

The moderator pretty much stated the mud slinging went too far. But yeah, after some constructive posts. The moderation policies on those boards need to be overhauled.

[lemming]

Re: RPG.net

 

If I am not missreading' date=' it was closed due to personal attacks between some of the participants. Topher, one of the Mods, had made some warnings to stop some behaviors that went unheeded. So the thread got closed.[/quote']

Looks like to get a thread closed all you have to do is go off topic on a thread not of your liking. I would have to do deeper forenisic analysis before determinig definite bias. Right now, there's probable cause.

 

OT: Hey look! We've got evil grins!

[L. Marcus]

Re: RPG.net

 

OT: Hey look! We've got evil grins!

Oh yes! Those'll come in handy!

 

Moahahahah!

[nexus]

Re: RPG.net

 

I think there is bias (Surprise!). What was said in the end seemed to amount to "You can talk about Hero. Just don't mention its strength, anything that sets it apart or why you prefer it. Feel free to post about how much sucks though."

[Lord Liaden]

Re: RPG.net

 

I think there is bias (Surprise!). What was said in the end seemed to amount to "You can talk about Hero. Just don't mention its strength' date=' anything that sets it apart or why you prefer it. Feel free to post about how much sucks though." [/quote']

 

Trying to be fair, I didn't get that impression from the moderator's penultimate comments. What I read was that there continued to be personal sniping between certain parties, pro- and con-HERO, after he told them to cool it. I actually thought that his suggestion of "post the cool things you do with your system and how you do it, rather than why your system is better/best which just draws flack" is worth considering.

 

Maybe he was too hasty in pulling the plug, though; the tone of the discussion did seem to be cooling off a bit. Still, I must admit that when a thread here on whatever subject descends into pointless tit-for-tat backbiting, I kind of wish Ben would be a little faster on the trigger shutting it down. Of course "if a thread offend thee, avoid it" - which is what I usually end up doing.

 

It strikes me that in most cases of flame wars, it's personal antipathy between the parties in question that fuels the fire, much more than the issues they're debating. The RPGnet thread in question here looked pretty clearly like another battlefield for a few people with old grudges, who stoked the flames even more.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: RPG.net

 

The moderator pretty much stated the mud slinging went too far. But yeah' date=' after some constructive posts. The moderation policies on those boards need to be overhauled.[/quote']

 

I'd be surprised if rpg.net have a consistent policy for moderation. I've certainly seen far more vicous threads than that one that were never shut down - and they certainly don't have anything even close to a consistent policy for reviews. Go browse through the reviews section and you'll see what I mean.

[Almafeta]

Re: RPG.net

 

I'd be surprised if rpg.net have a consistent policy for moderation. I've certainly seen far more vicous threads than that one that were never shut down - and they certainly don't have anything even close to a consistent policy for reviews. Go browse through the reviews section and you'll see what I mean.

 

The RPGnet forum rules are here. Threads are moved backstage or locked when one of these rules is broken; warnings are usually given (sometimes in private messages, sometimes in public) before the moderators take it to this step. Personal attacks are grounds for closing a thread; saying 'Palladium is full of poopy' is allowed, but saying 'Palladium players are full of poopy' is not.

[neverrob]

Re: RPG.net

 

I'd be surprised if rpg.net have a consistent policy for moderation. I've certainly seen far more vicous threads than that one that were never shut down - and they certainly don't have anything even close to a consistent policy for reviews. Go browse through the reviews section and you'll see what I mean.

 

The reviews are cursorily glanced at to avoid the fiascos like the review of THE GAME WHICH WILL NOT BE MENTIONED, but that is it. They are fan reviews and that is it. The site dose not claim professional quality reviews.

 

Personally, I look for reviews from guys like Dan Davenport. He will go through each book with a fine tooth comb. Does playtests and chargen for each game. And he does not fall into the trap of criticizing a game based on what he wants it to do vs. what it was designed for.

 

Moderation is...haphazard, depending who is active on the forums that day and how long it takes for a thread to be reported. But I will say letting a flamewar go 31 pages was actually generous. The Mods are human. I don't expect them to nip everything in the bud quickly.

 

Besides, some of my best stuff was ripped off from some it RPGnet's more creative posters So I put up with the occassional weirdness.

 

rob

[Mark Taylor]

Re: RPG.net

 

The RPGnet forum rules are here. Threads are moved backstage or locked when one of these rules is broken; warnings are usually given (sometimes in private messages' date=' sometimes in public) before the moderators take it to this step. Personal attacks are grounds for closing a thread; saying 'Palladium is full of poopy' is allowed, but saying 'Palladium players are full of poopy' is not.[/quote']

 

I stand corrected. I should have said there is a policy but it isn't consitently implemented. At least three of the recent threads on GURPS 4th edition, for example, which I followed and contributed to, were crammed with personal attacks and sniping, and reached a far more extreme level than the Sidekick thread. None of them were shut down or even had warnings posted to them at any stage.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: RPG.net

 

I only read the last 3 pages of posts or so, but I thought the moderator was being rather helpful and his suggestion to deal in specifics and to promote via actual content rather than endorsing testimonials was well made.

 

Ive noticed over the years that for some reason HERO's players tend not to post actual content. If you play other games which are far less flexible/are more "closed loop" fans share a good deal of custom, homebrewed, and by-the-book content. But the HERO System players, with a system that is basically a programming language for making RPGs with, generally don't share the products of their imagination IME.

 

I've never really been able to understand it, but to keep it on topic I think what the moderator was saying was "stop telling us and show us", or "put your money where your mouth is" essentially.

 

What might have been a more illustrative case for Sidekick would have been something like a case study of an actual campaign with a few characters made from the Sidekick book.

[A.J.Gibson]

Re: RPG.net

 

There is a forum on RPG.net called "The Art of Game Design" which is quite HERO - positive (save for those players who are strictly rules-lite, but they usually keep quiet). It was the people on that forum that got me to pick up the game in the first place.

 

Now I need someone to play it with *grrrr*

[Mark Taylor]

Re: RPG.net

 

There is a forum on RPG.net called "The Art of Game Design" which is quite HERO - positive (save for those players who are strictly rules-lite, but they usually keep quiet). It was the people on that forum that got me to pick up the game in the first place.

 

Now I need someone to play it with *grrrr*

Where do you live? Have you tried the Player Finder board?