New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

[AlHazred]

I posted a question to Steve on the "Hero System 5th Edition Rules Questions" Board.

 

This may already be in one of the books or DH issues' date=' but I'm blanking on it. Is there a modifier to Area Of Effect that allows one to vary the size of the Area? I'm thinking of an Area Of Effect (Radius) that would allow the user to vary from 1" Radius to the normal size of the Radius (1"/10 AP). Thanks![/quote']

No' date=' there's no such modifier that I can recall. You could accomplish that with a Multipower of different-sized Area Of Effect-based slots (or, calculate it that way, then use the comparison between the price of the Multipower and the price of the main Area Of Effect power to determine what an additional "varying size" Advantage would be worth).[/quote']So, taking the Master's advice, I played with the numbers:

 

Cost Power END 18 Variable Fireball: Multipower, 67-point reserve, all slots OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain; small piece of flint and small piece of steel tied together with cloth of gold thread; -1 1/4), Requires A Fire Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 1u 1) Fireball I: RKA 2d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain; small piece of flint and small piece of steel tied together with cloth of gold thread; -1 1/4), Requires A Fire Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 4 1u 2) Fireball II: RKA 2d6, Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain; small piece of flint and small piece of steel tied together with cloth of gold thread; -1 1/4), Requires A Fire Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 5 2u 3) Fireball III: RKA 2d6, Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain; small piece of flint and small piece of steel tied together with cloth of gold thread; -1 1/4), Requires A Fire Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 6 2u 4) Fireball IV: RKA 2d6, Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1 1/4); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain; small piece of flint and small piece of steel tied together with cloth of gold thread; -1 1/4), Requires A Fire Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 7 24 Fireball V: RKA 2d6, Varying Dimensions (+3/4), Area Of Effect (10" Radius; +1 1/4); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain; small piece of flint and small piece of steel tied together with cloth of gold thread; -1 1/4), Requires A Fire Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 9 Powers Cost: 66

 

So, seems to me that Varying Dimensions should be worth +3/4; it would be a modifier for Area Of Effect (Radius, Cone, or Line), so it would not increase the size of the resultant AoE.

 

So, what does Herodom Assembled think? A +3/4 Advantage on Area Of Effect that allows the user to vary the dimensions of the AoE between the minimum size of One Hex, and the maximum allowed based on the Active Points of the power.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

I would go with +1/2, because it's not a +1 and I hate +3/4. Seriously, compared to Armor Piercing, Pentrating, 0 END and the other +1/2, it feels like it should be in the category. Then again, I don't think Double Knockback is worth +3/4 either.

[Trebuchet]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

Works for me. Good idea. I assume by +¾ you mean an additional +¼ to the cost of the base AoE?.

[Solomon]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

Another option might be to build it as a Variable Advantage with Limited Group (Area of Effect advantages).

[Fenixcrest]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

Wow, this is news to me.

 

I always thought that if you had AoE on an attack, then you could make the Area any size up to its maximum, as long as it was the right shape...

[zornwil]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

No, the size of AoE is not elective once built, though what characters will tend to do is shoot it towards whatever map edge assures the swath is properly limited in effect. Basically, otherwise, the character gets an advantage of always being selective with it, particularly if they bought, say, "any area" shape.

 

Personally, I'd just go with +1/2 or even perhaps +1/4 for "can voluntarily limit size of area" for as often as this really is that advantageous.

[Dust Raven]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

I'd only make it a +1/4 additional. They way I see it, it only costs you +1/4 to double the area, make it MegaArea or even 1/2 the END. It might shouldn't cost more to be able to modulate the area with each shot up to the max.

[AlHazred]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

Works for me. Good idea. I assume by +¾ you mean an additional +¼ to the cost of the base AoE?.

No, based purely on the math, it would seem to be worth +¾ in addition to the normal value of the AoE.

 

Another option might be to build it as a Variable Advantage with Limited Group (Area of Effect advantages).

I hadn't thought of this, but it would seem to make it really expensive (since it would be a +2 at a minimum). It's a good idea, but it doesn't quite achieve the effect I was looking for; there are plenty of Radii you couldn't hit with it, for example, since the Active Points are always divided by 10 in the case of AoE Radius.

 

Personally, I'm thinking it's about worth +1/2, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's similar to Selective in that you can use it to avoid affecting certain targets; in some ways it's more effective, since, for the targets you want to strike, you don't need to make any additional attack rolls. Secondly, it seems to be slightly less effective than an Any Area AoE, since you can't select hexes inside the area not to affect. To achieve an Any Area AoE similar in size to one of the other AoE shapes, you need at least +1/2 worth of Increased Size. So, somewhere around there seems right.

 

I'm thinking it would work like this: when the Power is used, the user declares what the base size of the AoE is. For an AoE Radius, it's the Radius; for an AoE Line, it's the length. For an AoE Cone, it's the length of a side. Other AoEs might require more in-depth thinking, and since I'm at work, I won't be using any of that part of my brain; at least, not until 5:00 PM. The minimum size would of course be AoE One Hex.

 

Comments? Complaints?

[JmOz]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

+1/2 seems right to me, but that is just me, I would also allow another +1/2 for variable shape (this would allow the character to choose from Radius, Cone, or Any Shape)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

I hadn't thought of this' date=' but it would seem to make it really expensive (since it would be a +2 at a minimum). It's a good idea, but it doesn't quite achieve the effect I was looking for; there are plenty of Radii you couldn't hit with it, for example, since the Active Points are always divided by 10 in the case of AoE Radius.[/quote']

 

Technically, when you buy Area Effect, you can set the area at any size up to the maximum computed based on active points. You just can't vary it afterwards. So I could make a 50 point power AE - Radius and choose that Radius to be 4" when I buy it. So Variable Advantage would work, techically. But, since it's only to modify a radius, paying for the ability to use any advantages desired is overkill.

 

Personally' date=' I'm thinking it's about worth +1/2, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's similar to Selective in that you can use it to avoid affecting certain targets; in some ways it's more effective, since, for the targets you want to strike, you don't need to make any additional attack rolls. Secondly, it seems to be slightly less effective than an Any Area AoE, since you can't select hexes inside the area not to affect. To achieve an Any Area AoE similar in size to one of the other AoE shapes, you need at least +1/2 worth of Increased Size. So, somewhere around there seems right.[/quote']

 

OK, let's look at what we CAN do under the rules. For +1/4, I can make the area Selective. I pick and choose within the radius, but must roll to hit each one. For +3/4, I can make it Selective AND 1 hex area (maybe accurate). Now I can pick and choose anyone in the area AND only have to hit their hex.

 

Your construct gets the ability to hit a hex, rather than a person, but your selection is limited in that you pick thje radius but nust hit everything in it. As such, it should be worth more than +1/4 and less than +3/4. That only leaves +1/2.

[zornwil]

Re: New Advantage: Varying Dimensions

 

Technically, when you buy Area Effect, you can set the area at any size up to the maximum computed based on active points. You just can't vary it afterwards. So I could make a 50 point power AE - Radius and choose that Radius to be 4" when I buy it. So Variable Advantage would work, techically. But, since it's only to modify a radius, paying for the ability to use any advantages desired is overkill.

 

 

 

OK, let's look at what we CAN do under the rules. For +1/4, I can make the area Selective. I pick and choose within the radius, but must roll to hit each one. For +3/4, I can make it Selective AND 1 hex area (maybe accurate). Now I can pick and choose anyone in the area AND only have to hit their hex.

 

Your construct gets the ability to hit a hex, rather than a person, but your selection is limited in that you pick thje radius but nust hit everything in it. As such, it should be worth more than +1/4 and less than +3/4. That only leaves +1/2.

 

Good logic, Hugh, yeah, +1/2 seems more clearly correct after that.