I'm back, now what?

[verbosity]

I played Champions as a teen for about 4 years using the original rules. Time travel 15 years forward and meet a retired superhero who longs to make the headlines once more. (I once beat down the Hulk for goodness sake. How soon they forget....)

 

Do I need the 5th Ed. rules?

Can I just get the Champions rules?

I found the BBB on E-Bay and picked it up a few months efore 5th Ed. came out. Should I stick with that?

And finally (ominous organ sound...) I have to ask: Is Champions / Hero the best system to address a somewhat serisous yet light and enjoyable superhero campaign?

 

I'd like to benefit from the experience of seasoned gamers instead of reinventing the death ray.

 

Thanks in advance,

Verbosity

[Edsel]

All of the rules needed to play the game are in the Hero 5th Edition Rules (aka FREd, Fifth Rules Edition). These are the core rules, it is the book you must have to play Champions, or any Hero setting.

 

The Champions book is a genre book, it contains lots of neat examples and discussions on how to run Hero system in a superhero setting. It is not absolutely essential but it is very useful. If you have the 4th Ed. BBB then the Champions book is somewhat analogous to the source book portion of that previous edition.

 

There are refinements and some (few) changes of the rules in 5th Edition over 4th Edition. Many powers and abilities are much better defined and expanded in the newer edition. IMHO it is well worth it.

 

I have played the old marvel super-heroes game, GURPS Supers, and the old Villians & Vigilantes games. And again IMHO FREd is the best of the best.

[TheEmerged]

Welcome!

 

Personally, I'd recommend picking 5th up. While there are a few issues I'd quibble with and two I have a problem with (the Suppress & Damage Shield changes), but for the vastest majority of cases 5th is superior.

 

This is especially true for the way 5th expounds the power descriptions; in the case of Change Environment and Force Wall, powers that were just given paragraphs in the BBB have two full pages under 5th. Especially in the case of Change Environment, the rule expansions for it represent a massive improvement -- bringing it into the same category as Mind Control & Transform as a "How Do I..." power, in my opinion.

 

If you'd like a good idea of how much has changed, I have an article on this subject at my website -- linked HERE. The article may seem light on particulars; the reason for that is I didn't want to reveal so much information in so much detail that people could use the list in place of buying 5th Edition.

 

HERO is a ruleset; saying it's the "best system for a [insert campaign type here]" is actually something of a misnomer. The system used won't matter nearly as much as the quality of your GM. That said, in my opinion there's nothing on the market right now that deserves to tie HERO's shoelaces in terms of being internally consistent and genuine capability to be used across genres. There are systems that have an edge on HERO in particular areas -- I personally think GURPS Psionics are better than HERO's mental powers, but not by much. There are also those people (usually people that haven't played it more than once) that deride HERO's "complexity" -- which is only partially true. HERO's learning curve is steep and initial, but once learned is actually much easier to balance and use successfully than the morass of exceptions & special cases in other systems.

 

--------------------------

 

Since you have the BBB, I can't recommend "Champions" all that heavily. There's one chart in it I photocopied and placed in my 5th Edition book, and haven't opened it since. However, Champions has a number of "easy use" bases and that sort of thing if you don't want to do that kind of legwork yourself.

 

Ultimate Martial Artist on the other hand comes recommended. Ninja Hero & Star Hero are also good choices if you're interested in running those genres as well (I found a lot more in Ninja Hero I'll be using than Champions, even for my Super Hero campaign). Similarly, you probably won't need the Bestiary for a super hero campaign but it comes recommended otherwise.

 

CKC (Conquers Killers & Crooks) does get a pretty serious recommendation if you want to run a superhero game. It cured my #1 complaint about most of the previous supplements (not enough character examples) in a big ole' hurry.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

There are also those people (usually people that haven't played it more than once) that deride HERO's "complexity" -- which is only partially true.

Well I first played Champions about twenty years ago. I've run two campaigns and played in half a dozen or more plus a couple of fantasy Hero runs. And I deride HERO's "complexity".

[JohnTaber]

Is Champions / Hero the best system to address a somewhat serisous yet light and enjoyable superhero campaign?

 

Just wanted to make one comment here. You used the word "light". If you mean "light" referring to the genre and game style play then yes...FREd is fine. That stuff depends on the GM IMHO.

 

IMHO Hero is not "light" in terms of the rules (literally and figuratively). The 320+ page FREd book is pretty scary if the GM and players have zero experience with the system. If there is someone who know a fair amount...like maybe you with the 4th ed experience...or you guys tried it at a Legion of Heroes demo or something...then FREd is fine. I'm a Hero fanatic but I'm not sure I would recommend it to folks who have no RPG experience as a place to start cold...

 

Just my take...

[Uncle Shecky]

The BBB is a great book. IMHO, if you want to play HERO, and you want to buy only 1 book, the BBB is still the one to get.

 

FREd is an excellent revision of the BBB, with many new, revised, or clarified powers, advantages, etc. But it doesn't include any complete characters. (Presumably, this is intended to get people to buy the supplements: a strategy used by most RPG companies, but one that HERO didn't really use until recently. It's probably in the company's best interest to pursue that strategy now , but it might not suit your needs.)

 

If you can afford to buy a few other books, or you are willing to convert 1st-4th edition stuff to 5th (it is easy), then you should buy FREd. Your BBB could still come in handy: it's a less intimidating book to show to new players. Our old gaming group used our copies of the 1st and 2nd edition rules to teach new players the basics, even after we'd switched to the BBB.

 

As for HERO/Champions being the best system for superhero RPGs, I only know that I've never seen a better one. Granted, the only other option I found when I started playing (1982) was Villains and Vigillantes: there was no contest there.

 

The new Silver Age Sentinels game is (IMHO) an extremely over-simplified version of Champions, but one with the right spirit and good company support. It's directed at younger or math-phobic players, but it could be right for a more light-hearted superhero game. I don't think it's worth buying if you already have the BBB (you've already got a complete game there), but you can check it out at http://www.guardiansoforder.com/

[verbosity]

Thanks for the thoughts, there is a lot of good info there. Feel free to keep it coming if you have more to say.

 

Thanks again,

Verbosity