Megascale Combat

[Hugh Neilson]

Steve, every so often we see a Megascale discussion of doing a few thousand extra d6 damage. Has anyone ever looked at how the rules for Megascale would work in this case?

 

For example, assume I have 11" megascale flight with 11" at 1" = 10 km. For some reason, I think I can fight effectively at this speed. How would this work?

 

(a) Velocity modifiers are based on inches. You're moving 11". Your move through damage would be STR + 11/3, so add 3 1/2 d6. It's not measured in meters. It's measured in inches. You are at -2 OCV (11/5), if I recall the move by OCV modifier correctly. So you can fight more or less effectively (remembering you're moving noncombat so you have a base OCV 0, that leaves you at -2), but you're not doing huge damage.

 

( It's all based on increments of 2". You're moving 5,500 2 meter inches, so your move through adds 5,500/3 = 1,833d6. But you have a -1,100 OCV poenalty, so good luck rolling that "3". [i'm thinking any target with a DCV better than, say, -1,090, is properly ruled impossible to hit.]

 

Of course, the above ignores the need to perceive the target before you aim for it, and the need for Regeneration with the Resurrection adder to deal with the incidental damage if you do hit, but let's leave those out for now.

[Steve Long]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

This is a design discussion, not a rules question. I've moved it so those who are interested in hashing out such topics can participate.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

Since the margin of error for Megascale movement is generally equal to the smallest increment it can utilize (be it 100 meters or 1,000,000 KM), a target would need to huge in order for a Megascaled movement to have any chance of hitting it in the first place.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

Since the margin of error for Megascale movement is generally equal to the smallest increment it can utilize (be it 100 meters or 1' date='000,000 KM), a target would need to huge in order for a Megascaled movement to have any chance of hitting it in the first place.[/quote']

 

There's another good reason.

 

I keep seeing people who see potential for Megascale movement to be abused in combat, but any reasonable interpretation of the combat practicality of Megascale indicates it would be virtually impossible to use it effectively in this fashion.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

There's another good reason.

 

I keep seeing people who see potential for Megascale movement to be abused in combat, but any reasonable interpretation of the combat practicality of Megascale indicates it would be virtually impossible to use it effectively in this fashion.

FREd specifically states that Megascale movement can be used with Move By and the like only with explicit GM permission. I would allow it only if it were a "save the world" kind of incident and the player would be informed it will probably kill his character.

 

If a PC insisted on trying it anyway, I would use the same rules as for breaking objects. The maximum damage done by a phone pole is dice equal to its BODY + DEF. So a character with 35 PD and 20 BODY would do a maximum of 55d6 no matter what his velocity. That would kill many (probably most) characters. And if the target has an equal or higher PD than the PC then all he's going to do is poke a largish hole in it and turn himself into a red smear. Even if he actually succeeds in hitting the target a fairly typical speedster with 15 PD and 13 BODY is just going to go splat against the 30 DEF front armor of an M1A2 Abrams tank or a similarly armored alien spacecraft. The crew will have to clean him off their vehicle with a hose.

[Gary]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

( It's all based on increments of 2". You're moving 5,500 2 meter inches, so your move through adds 5,500/3 = 1,833d6. But you have a -1,100 OCV poenalty, so good luck rolling that "3". [i'm thinking any target with a DCV better than, say, -1,090, is properly ruled impossible to hit.]

 

Of course, the above ignores the need to perceive the target before you aim for it, and the need for Regeneration with the Resurrection adder to deal with the incidental damage if you do hit, but let's leave those out for now.

 

You'd be better off doing a moveby with a large object. Let's say Green Lantern with a 10 km force object (he only needs to place area effect on 15-20 str after all). The base OCV is 0 with -2 moveby penalty vs DCV 3 for the hex. A 6- to hit, which is at least possible.

 

5500" = 1100 DC = 550d6 after prorating for the area effect advantage. 552d6 damage total if GL has 20 Str.

 

A 6- to hit with 552d6 damage isn't too bad, especially since you have DCV 39 using the velocity chart. Of course you'd be dead (taking 184d6 moveby damage), but so would the target.

 

A better bet if you want to nuke the target without being hurt yourself is to summon robots or missiles with megascale movement, and crash them into Earth from orbit. That's if the GM doesn't nuke your character first for overwhelming cheesiness.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

A better bet if you want to nuke the target without being hurt yourself is to summon robots or missiles with megascale movement' date=' and crash them into Earth from orbit. That's if the GM doesn't nuke your character first for overwhelming cheesiness.[/quote']

 

I make it a point NEVER to just nuke the character

 

Now, discussing a particularly cheesy power or tactic and saying "Well, I suppose the villains can use it too" infront of the rest of the players...that I'll do.

 

Somehow, that seems to result in a rapid influx of reasons why this shouldn't work...

[Arthur]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

This came up on the thread "Cheese Check" (where I inquired about using Megascale in a MP slot).

 

This is my take on how a Megascale Move-x combat maneuver should be handled:

 

The most damage allowed should be something like (total PD + 2xBODY) in DC. This would obliterate whatever is doing the Move Through. Thus, if you have a total PD of 20 and 10 BODY, you could do a maximum of 40d, killing yourself.

 

Amend that to "possibly killing yourself", since a less-than-average BODY roll would leave the character alive. Furthermore, when I wrote the above, I didn't consider Damage Reduction.

 

Anyway, that's the general idea. It's sort of like hitting something with a fragile weapon. No matter how strong you are, a broomstick isn't going to do more than its (DEF+BODY) in DC before it shatters.

[Arthur]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

If a PC insisted on trying it anyway, I would use the same rules as for breaking objects. The maximum damage done by a phone pole is dice equal to its BODY + DEF. So a character with 35 PD and 20 BODY would do a maximum of 55d6 no matter what his velocity. That

would kill many (probably most) characters. And if the target has an equal or higher PD than ....

 

I see you and I think alike (see my post a little later on in this thread, which was derived from an earlier thread). I'll leave it to your discretion whether to feel flattered or insulted.

 

However, on average, it will leave any character at exactly 0 BODY, since BODY+DEF Normal dice will average BODY+DEF in BODY damage. So, without a very good BODY damage roll, the character in question will be alive. That's why I went with 2xBODY. However, either way is good.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

This came up on the thread "Cheese Check" (where I inquired about using Megascale in a MP slot).

 

That's what motivated me to ask for an official ruling. And so the wheel comes full circle...

[DocMan]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

Are you talking about a Champions or a Star Hero scenario?

 

Star Hero would necessitate use of Megascale for ship to ship battles, but they'd all be at the same scale, so it wouldn't matter. Now if you're talking about a ship ramming a character in space or on a planetary surface, you ARE talking about a LOT of damage, but it's most definately of the "Hit the Hex" variety.

 

A character moving at Megascale velocity would need to hit a target that filled at lest one hex of his Megascale. Smaller targets would be almost impossible to hit. And the guy that rams a starship at his full interstellar flight is going to find himself going THROUGH the ship, not knocking the ship away. "Be the bullet."

 

Doc

[megaplayboy]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

I strongly recommend utilizing the "optional" Velocity Factor Rules in FRED for handling move-bys and move-throughs in megascale. It's more accurate, physics-wise.

 

A Ship travelling at half the speed of life has a VF of 52, and therefore would do an extra 52d6 of damage in a collision. The modifier to hit would be -26, IIRC. Slamming into another giant starship would not necessarily be that difficult.

 

All this talk about thousands of DCs of damage(either from velocity damage, or for being at the center of the sun) are, IMHO, just silly and impractical, not to mention a major divergence from the basic exponential/logarithmic nature of damage in the Hero System.

[Warp9]

Re: Megascale Combat

 

All this talk about thousands of DCs of damage(either from velocity damage, or for being at the center of the sun) are, IMHO, just silly and impractical, not to mention a major divergence from the basic exponential/logarithmic nature of damage in the Hero System.

 

 

exponential/logarithmic all the way baby!