Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

[zornwil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Hero does the right thing after tremendous internal stress and conflicted emotions.

 

At least one major villain is noble and at least partially misunderstood, if not most.

 

Vast government conspiracies undermine the good guy's goals and ability to operate.

 

The good guy rejects his government.

 

Justa few to keep it flowing...

[Twilight]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

One good cop in a sea of corruption.

 

An asylum for the criminally insane that is as much a horror show as the psychotics that are imprisoned there.

 

No bystander is truly innocent.

 

I'm pretty sure the first one has been true in Batman comics for quite awhile, barring the 60's of course. Not sure about the second though.

[zornwil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

I'm pretty sure the first one has been true in Batman comics for quite awhile' date=' barring the 60's of course. Not sure about the second though.[/quote']

I'd agree with his 2nd, I think you see that recurring as to the treatment of any criminally insane mental hospital, it's part of the disrespect for authority as well as a hold-over from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

[AngryBug]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

I'd agree with his 2nd' date=' I think you see that recurring as to the treatment of any criminally insane mental hospital, it's part of the disrespect for authority as well as a hold-over from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.[/quote']

Yeah, look at how Arkham Asylum has been depicted over the years, especially in its "own" graphic novel (a serious house...). Not a place to get well. Also, if I remember correctly, the inmates literally ran the "Marvel" heroes asylum in Marshal Law.

[Wanderer]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Hey, Wanderer... is this any better? I don't want you to think I'm being too critical or anything.

 

Please go on, it isn't as you were richly showing that some people are really too immature to play nice even when explicitly asked :

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Please go on' date=' it isn't as you were richly showing that some people are really too immature to play nice even when explicitly asked :[/quote']

 

Well, I will certainly give your opinion all the weight it is worth... which, considering that your standard tactic of discussion is "I am right, and if you do anything other than agree with me completely you are not only wrong, you're stupid" is not all that much.

[Wanderer]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Well' date=' I will certainly give your opinion all the weight it is worth... which, considering that your standard tactic of discussion is "I am right, and if you do anything other than agree with me completely you are not only wrong, you're stupid" is not all that much.[/quote']

 

Hum, yeah, you mean really open-minded tactics of discussion like doing these kinds of statements:

 

"...but could only really be enjoyed by sociopaths with no moral sense"

 

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Hum, yeah, you mean really open-minded tactics of discussion like doing these kinds of statements:

 

If the shoe fits...

[GamePhil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

To me, the things that separate good grayscale comics from not-so-good ones:

 

Real consequences for actions. Characters, whether "heroes" or "villains", don't do major things and have them automatically succeed or succeed without side effect. I don't like them taking over the world without resistance, even if it's all political. Villains shouldn't succeed with their plans due to hero obliviousness if the heroes are supposed to be insightful and intelligent. Heroes that commit immoral (or, for that matter, moral) acts should be berated or lauded for it, depending on what character within the story is consulted. And so on.

 

Heroes and villains are both people. I don't care for any work where the good guys are in shades of gray but the villains are utterly evil and corrupt. I don't mind the heroes making mistakes, or even doing things that I consider immoral, as long as they also do the right thing, or are doing what I consider the wrong thing with believable motivation.

 

The Conspiracy should exist, but should not be all-powerful or unable to be resisted and thwarted.

 

Secondary characters should be well developed and interesting. They should not be sacrificed for shock value (this is true in any type of story, though). If they must die or be maimed, it should be because it is both logical and a prelude to a good story.

 

Tragedy has become overrated. It has to be very well done indeed to do anything but annoy me these days. Less tragedy and more life, please. Life doesn't have to be easy, but I am very put off by any game, book, or anything else that has the label, "Next Issue One Of The Team Will Not Be Coming Home!" Let it happen naturally rather than it being a selling point, and get on with the drama, action, or whatever else you want in the game.

 

Don't force a plot point. Don't create a situation where tragedy must occur, and then railroad the players down that road. Create situations where it might occur, is even probably, but clever or self-sacrificing action by the heroes can avert it. Even in this, there will be consequences, but they don't have to be tragic ones. And the villains are not infallible: unless things are very well set up, indeed, assuming that the plan will go their way when other factors are involved (the bank guard may react differently than was expected, the aging aunt might not have the heart attack upon the hero's mask being removed, and so on) is often a mistake.

 

These are all things that seem to happen in my experience in grayscale comics and games based on them. I have heard of such games where they don't, but have never been involved in one.

[zornwil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

To me, the things that separate good grayscale comics from not-so-good ones:

 

(snip)

 

Excellent! That is really well-stated and accurate.

[zornwil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

If the shoe fits...

Wanderer and WM, please take it to PM if you haven't already. I don't want to see this thread shut down. Thanks.

[GamePhil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Excellent! That is really well-stated and accurate.

 

Thanks. There's a lot to be done with this type of campaign or book, though a lot of what has been done is not to my tastes. Dark Champions should be worthwhile, though.

[ChuckB]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

Obscure silver-age supporting characters that have been gone for awhile, return and are all messed up or evil (Karen Page, Speedy, pretty much all of Spider Man's supporting cast).

[zornwil]

Re: Any Good Non-Four Color Super Game Needs:

 

If realism is not a priority, then explicit social commentary is. (while 4-color may have had social commentary in fantastic or realistic settings, it was often muted or implicit (excepting wartime racist portrayals); when 4-color was realistic, that realism wasn't the priority, the fantastic super was)