Acroyear II Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 In the FAQ section of this website, the question of using Breakfall or Acrobatics after Diving for Cover was posted. Basically the question was asked if a character could use either Breakfall or Acrobatics to land on his feet (and not become prone) after successfully making a Dive for Cover. Steve's reply was "no." I asked Steve about this, and he replied that it was basically a game balance issue. Do any of you out there allow Breakfall or Acrobatics after a Dive for Cover manuver? I have a player who insists that this should be possible, and I'm having a hard time backing up the official rule posted in the FAQ section. I'm not doubting Steve's call, I'm just a little confused as to what game balance is being lost if I were to allow such skill rolls after Dive for Covers are made. On the one hand, it does seem a bit cheap to me for a character to be able to Dive for Cover from an Area Effect attack, and then land on his feet right afterwards. Granted, he most likely Aborted his Phase to do this manuver, and that in itself is a "penalty." On the other hand, it seems to me that in some instances it may be likely a very agile character could pull of such a manuver after Diving for Cover. What do you guys think? I just want to be sure before I make a final ruling on this, as it could a) upset game balance in my game if I allow it, or upset my player if I do not allow it. So please share you thoughts on the subject. My thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall I don't see this as intrinsically game-breaking, but I do see where it could be abused by a high SPD character with a great DEX based skill roll. Why can't you use breakfall/acrobatics? Because you're putting everything you've got into getting out of the area quickly, which would be impaired by trying to land neatly. You might also consider a penalty to the dive for cover roll if they want to use Breakfall in conjunction. Maybe consider a tradeoff - each 5 DEX feeds either to the Breakfall roll or the Dive for Cover roll, but not both, so if you want your 30 DEX to provide a 15- dive for cover (modified by distance) then you start with a base 9 breakfall roll (also modified for distance) so it's not a gimme for high DEX/SPD characters. My first step in any such discussions is generally to sit all the players down, discuss the proposed rule change, make it clear that it will apply to PC and NPC alike (ie the villains will also use/abuse this change) and have a group discussion. If the players want to change the rules and allow this, then they shouldn't be surprised to meet a DEX 38 SPD 10 Martial Artist who uses this tactic regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kolava Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall The main thing to realize about Dive for Cover is that you don't inherently land on your face. Characters can go ahead and say that they remain standing, maybe requiring a succesful roll, but that doesn't affect the 1/2 DCV that comes from diving. This penalty is related to being disoriented and off balance, not lieng down, despite its name. That's why it applies even when you dive while in midair or swimming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall I do. I also allow multiple dive for covers at -2 after each dive. I thought it more cinematic and in the games we used to play with multiple explosions it worked out well. Though as a counterpoint, we didn't allow a dive for cover to get away from haymakers. The haymaker person could just punch at that point but would still have haymaker CVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMan Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall The questions that usually come up in our games are a) can you dive for cover when flying, if so, can you dive UP? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall We don't allow an Acrobatics roll in a Dive For Cover, but we do allow for one to make a 0-phase "get up again" on your next action... I think that's all standard. There's no real reason why to allow or not allow in my mind, I see the rules balance in question and believe it's fair. You can rationalize it either way until you die of boredom IMO, pick one and go with it. It's not going to be a game breaker in any horrible way .. the High Dex guys will usually end up "not prone" after a DfC, but usually they put more points into not getting hit than defenses and many High Dex Players like to keep that DCV as high as possible. As for a Dive For Cover upwards, I do this all the time. My GM hates it when I use flying characters three dimensionally - you go all three, use 'em. We treat it normally from a "how far from impact hex" you end up, and then that recalculates all the distances since you are now higher up and further away from every one. Sometimes the 1/2 DCV is made up for by increase range modifiers by a little bit (every -1 helps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magmarock Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall Breakfall or Acrobatics Roll for Dive for Cover, to allow for landing on your feet? Not much different from buying the adder- Position Shift in my book. If one is unbalancing, then so is the other, IMHO. Mags PS: In our game, it takes a 1/2 phase to stand up (or to get your bearings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall Given how Breakfall operates in general, I have no problem and have allowed it to land on feet from DfC. I would probably allow Acrobatics as well, as lemming says it tends to be more cinematic. I think it'd depend on the situation a bit, of course (the SFX of the dive, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Re: Diving For Cover & Breakfall The questions that usually come up in our games are a) can you dive for cover when flying, if so, can you dive UP? Doc Sure, just remember it takes twice as much movement to move up. In my opinion the penalty would be based on the movement used not the inches travelled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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