Sleep spell - one GM's take

[SirWilliam]

I really kind of want to give my party's mage a useful, but non-combat spell. So I built this sleep spell. It isn't really useful once combat starts, but it could be really useful to avoid combat altogether.

 

Strictly speaking you're not supposed to be able to Suppress a stat, but Suppress fits my concept that you're sleeping and not knocked out. So you don't wake up with almost no Stun.

 

Now I run my magic system as a skill for a talented individual so my mages don't have to pay their points to use a spell, but they have to have the scroll/book to cast the spell. If I find something unbalancing they'll just lose that scroll.

 

So here goes:

Herstel's spell of induced somnolence

 

9d6 Suppress Stun (45 pt base)

Uncontrolled +1/2

Explosion +1/2

Invisble power effects (sight group, hearing) +3/4

1/2 END +1/4

 

135 Active pts

 

Concentration 0 DCV -1/2

Full Phase to cast -1/2

OIF Expendable (Diff)(handful of black sand) -1/2

Gestures (both hands) -1/2

Gradual effect (5 minutes) -3/4

Normal Sleep (hearing perc roll at -5 to wake up if there is a noise) -1/2

Requires easy skill roll (-1 per 20 active) -1/4

Target gets resistance roll for half effect (Ego roll) -1/4

Humanoids only -1/4

 

Real cost 27 points Skill roll modifier -7 Endurance 7

 

The mage will cast the spell and say how much mana (from his endurance reserve) he will put into it. The Uncontrolled endurance pool won't be used until the 5 minutes has passed. Then the pool will be decremented on each of the target's phases (not strictly speaking according to the rules, but that's why I'm the GM).

 

This isn't going to be something that knocks someone out for a while, but it will be nice for simulating those "doze off at your post" incidents for guards, and the explosing advantage will let them cover more than one target at a time.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

I've always pictured Sleep as more of an Ego attack effect myself. hmmm...what about 1 command Mind Control to "go to sleep"? Transform from "awake" to "asleep"?

 

I'm sure someone out there will have a better take. I play D & D and Hero, so I generally avoid trying to duplicate D & D in Hero. I'd rather do something I couldn't do in D&D, or do it some way D&D doesn't facilitate.

[SirWilliam]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

This is kind of of a wierd situation for me. I wasn't trying to replicate the D&D spell and really I don't think this is what it does except in a very broad effect. I haven't looked at D&D in over 10 years, so I assure you replicating it wasn't my intent.

 

I thought about an ego attack but I didn't like it because an attack causes stun damage, which has to be recovered normally. That's more like knocking someone over the head with a club than lulling them to sleep.

 

Mind control was been suggested but I don't really see it working "You over there, go to sleep". I don't know about you, but I can't go to sleep on command.

 

Anyway, like I said it's just my take on it. Steve used NND's in the Grimoire to produce a sleep effect.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

I thought about an ego attack but I didn't like it because an attack causes stun damage' date=' which has to be recovered normally. That's more like knocking someone over the head with a club than lulling them to sleep.[/quote']

 

While I agree to some extent, the Stun can be viewed as drowsiness, not pain. Given a typical recovery of, say, 5-6 and SPD of say 3-4, in 12 seconds, a character shakes off 20 to 30 STUN (assuming all he does is recover).

 

Mind control was been suggested but I don't really see it working "You over there' date=' go to sleep". I don't know about you, but I can't go to sleep on command.[/quote']

 

I agree the Mind Control option requires the added assumption that the spell also permits the character to "will" himself to sleep. The Transform may be more effective and, if purchased non-cumulative, costs the same 10 points per d6. But now we're dealing with BOD and power defense defending against it, which isn't exactly the right result either. Of course, Suppress also has the power defense issue, and STUN replaces BOD. Plus, the character not put to sleep is still easier to club into unconsciousness.

 

Anyway' date=' like I said it's just my take on it. Steve used NND's in the Grimoire to produce a sleep effect.[/quote']

 

NND and Ego Attack - basically two sides of the same coin.

 

I don't have a perfect answer, obviously. Hopefully someone else has some great ideas.

[sbarron]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Mind control was been suggested but I don't really see it working "You over there' date=' go to sleep". I don't know about you, but I can't go to sleep on command.[/quote'] I like the mind control option. Depending on the situation, it will be easier or harder to use. If a guard is sitting at his post at 3 am, he might be inclined to take a little nap. If a battle has started, it would be difficult to get people to go to sleep. And given the generally accepted method of coup de gracing sleeping opponents, I think sleep should be difficult to accomplish. That's my take, though.

 

I also don't think that they neccesarily have to actually "sleep." If you make the role, whether they sleep or just pretend to sleep, the net result is the same. They are mind controlled after all.

[austenandrews]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

I built a "sleep dust" effect as a Minor Transform with Partial Effect. The PE means that even at 1xBODY the target will get drowsy, and it might be enough to put to sleep someone who's already drowsy. Perfect for the "sleeping guard" routine (if you include IPE, which I did). If you don't like using BODY, make it a Mental Transform instead.

 

Suppress STUN sounds reasonable too, though you have the same issue as BODY Transform of the effect not working as well against physically tough targets. (Btw where does it say Suppress can't be used against stats?)

 

I have no problem with a Mind Control-based sleep spell (what's hypnosis, after all?) though it depends on the special effect.

 

-AA

[SirWilliam]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Suppress STUN sounds reasonable too, though you have the same issue as BODY Transform of the effect not working as well against physically tough targets. (Btw where does it say Suppress can't be used against stats?)

 

 

Under the Suppress description it says you can suppress "Powers" unlike say Drain where it says you can drain "Characteristics". A minor quibble.

 

I guess you're correct that a tough character will be harder to put to sleep. I guess I just look at that as they're more resistant to this type of magic. I'm ok with that.

[JMcL63]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Whether you choose to use Drain or Suppress, it strikes me that sleep could perhaps be best modelled by a heavy duty attack against END. Just a thought.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Whether you choose to use Drain or Suppress' date=' it strikes me that sleep could perhaps be best modelled by a heavy duty attack against END. Just a thought. [/quote']

 

The only catch is that this can't actually KO a target with this. Once you get to negative END, it's just negative END - it doesn't do STUN damage. [i think this is on the Rules Question board somewhere; maybe in the FAQ.]

[JMcL63]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

The only catch is that this can't actually KO a target with this. Once you get to negative END' date=' it's just negative END - it doesn't do STUN damage. [i think this is on the Rules Question board somewhere; maybe in the FAQ.']

True. I realised the limitations of my suggestion not long after posting it. Ah well, back to the dra... ZZZZZzzzz.

[JakSpade]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Has anyone ever thought about using a 2d6 Entangle, Based on ECV, Area of Effect, Entangle Takes No Damage? It's cheap, effective, and you can spray it in an area and get all the Orcs...

 

 

Only the brightest of minds can shake off this sleep spell...

 

Jak

[JMcL63]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Has anyone ever thought about using a 2d6 Entangle, Based on ECV, Area of Effect, Entangle Takes No Damage? It's cheap, effective, and you can spray it in an area and get all the Orcs...

 

 

Only the brightest of minds can shake off this sleep spell...

 

Jak

That's a good one.

[Snarf]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Has anyone ever thought about using a 2d6 Entangle, Based on ECV, Area of Effect, Entangle Takes No Damage? It's cheap, effective, and you can spray it in an area and get all the Orcs...

 

 

Only the brightest of minds can shake off this sleep spell...

 

Jak

I used that once, but the problem is they're still conscious and able to use mental powers and activate items and such. It only works as sleep in games where paralyzing someone is enough to totally disable them.

[Lightray]

If you go the Mind Control route, the victim gets to make Breakout Rolls. If the spell induces natural sleep, that might be a benefit since it would simulate the victim's chance to wake up if his sleep is disturbed.

 

If it is an unnatural sleep maintained by the spell, I'd prefer the Suppress STUN, myself.

[JakSpade]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

I used that once' date=' but the problem is they're still conscious and able to use mental powers and activate items and such. It only works as sleep in games where paralyzing someone is enough to totally disable them.[/quote']

 

Then you should add a Speed or Dex drain to counteract the fact that they still get actions. 'Entangle Blocks A Sense' is also a good additive.

 

I, as a GM, wouldn't allow a character (PC or NPC) affected by this kind of entangle to act until they could shuck off the entangle... (much like an entangle based on STR). They can use all their actions to try to break the entange... but that ruling is different with each GM.

 

Jak

[Rick]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

I like the entangle idea for an unatural sleep. Sure the character gets chances to break out, but at suffient enough def and body, that won't be an issue. You can even tack on lims that make so if someone tries to "wake up" the person the Entangle automaticly fails on the effected characters following phase. It won't offer the target any rest and you can Block the appropriate sences.

 

For a natural sleep, use a Healing or aid, that requires the target to be willfully unconsious for x amout of time.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

Then you should add a Speed or Dex drain to counteract the fact that they still get actions. 'Entangle Blocks A Sense' is also a good additive.

 

I, as a GM, wouldn't allow a character (PC or NPC) affected by this kind of entangle to act until they could shuck off the entangle... (much like an entangle based on STR). They can use all their actions to try to break the entange... but that ruling is different with each GM.

 

Jak

 

"Blocks a sense", likely Sight Group and Mental Group, would cover it.

 

A STR based Entangle doesn't prevent mental attacks, or indirect attacks for that matter, does it? I can see it restricting field of vision so targetting's tougher. "You're all webbed up - you can't turn to look that way".

[JakSpade]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

"Blocks a sense", likely Sight Group and Mental Group, would cover it.

 

A STR based Entangle doesn't prevent mental attacks, or indirect attacks for that matter, does it? I can see it restricting field of vision so targetting's tougher. "You're all webbed up - you can't turn to look that way".

 

Yep, I'd use Sight and Mental Sense Groups. If I were really evil, I'd write a special higher level Sleep Spell that would include all senses, along with the Speed and Dex drain.

 

You're right, a STR based Entangle doesn't block mental attacks and the like, but to do a physical action, you have to break out of the entangle.

 

Since mental powers are based on Ego, it's safe to assume that if someone puts an Ego based Entangle on you, you'd have to break the entangle before doing anything mental. You could get into a HUGE discussion about where the physical and mental stuff lies, but I'll stick with this assumption and make it simple.

 

Jak

[austenandrews]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

As long as you're simulating sleep as opposed to making the character unconscious, just get a high enough Mental Illusions effect and you're done.

 

-AA

[JakSpade]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

As long as you're simulating sleep as opposed to making the character unconscious, just get a high enough Mental Illusions effect and you're done.

 

-AA

 

You know, I never thought of that... I guess if you did get a high enough mental illusions, they wouldn't be interacting with the real world... That might also work for some form of Fear spell...

 

Jak

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sleep spell - one GM's take

 

As long as you're simulating sleep as opposed to making the character unconscious' date=' just get a high enough Mental Illusions effect and you're done.[/quote']

 

Innovative approach with an underused power - I like it.

 

And if our victim believes he is asleep, no harm in saying he collapses to the ground in slumber since that's where he beloeves he is.