Lack of Power coverage

[Teflon Billy]

Ok, my question is:

 

What powers/effects that exist commonly in genre (any genre: Fantasy, Comic Book, Sci-Fi, etc...) do you think are not adequately covered in the existing Hero 5th Ed. Powers regime. I specifically exclude catch all powers such as Major Transform, Cosmic VPP, and their ilk. While, although they are useful for cutting to the chase on certain things, I'm looking for proposals from you Hero Fans out there that don't just entail 15d6 Major Transform (Something into What I Want).

 

Also, which powers do you think could be broken up to allow for easier use, less obfuscation within the rules, what have you. On this end, I'm not talking but niggling rules tweaks like "Such and such should cost end, or this power is too expensive". I'm going for more "These are two distinct effects that through the use of 8 advantages and disadvantages are massaged to exist under the same Power Label"

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

I kinda liked have Regeneration being seperate from Healing. Technically, it's the same thing, but it actualy follows diferent mechanics (no max and it keeps working after the first "roll").

 

There's certain aspects of Mental Powers I think could be divided up. Specifically those that boarder on Detects. Most "real" telepaths I make will have a Detect Minds ability as well as a Detect Surface Thoughts ability (because buying a hidiously modified Telepathy is just insane if you only want intermittent sensations of what people nearby think and feel).

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

I kinda liked have Regeneration being seperate from Healing. Technically, it's the same thing, but it actualy follows diferent mechanics (no max and it keeps working after the first "roll").

 

There's certain aspects of Mental Powers I think could be divided up. Specifically those that boarder on Detects. Most "real" telepaths I make will have a Detect Minds ability as well as a Detect Surface Thoughts ability (because buying a hidiously modified Telepathy is just insane if you only want intermittent sensations of what people nearby think and feel).

This is what I'm looking for. I thought the same thing about Regen myself, I just wanted to see what other people have to say first.

 

Keep up coming, I want to hear it all :-)

[caris]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Well, how about, wish they did the break up differently?

 

I like that they made shape shift more grainy, but I wish that they had done it differently. There had to be a better way to break things up than by senses.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Well, how about, wish they did the break up differently?

 

I like that they made shape shift more grainy, but I wish that they had done it differently. There had to be a better way to break things up than by senses.

I agree. I find it cumbersome to have to include so many senses to create a true metamorph. I don't like some uses of Multiform with an obscene number of forms (and the accompanying obscene number of character sheets that entails) that you need when you want to create a character that when they shape shift, they actually shape shift. Because as it is, I have to use an obscene number of senses to ensure that someone is truly shape shifted. Even then someone can just come along with some out of the ordinary Detect and Bam! The shape shift is just an illusion, instead of a trully physical changing of form, which is what I'm trying to simulate.

 

But alas, this isn't what I'm looking for. It does lead to some fun discussions.

 

I'm more interested in things that are extremely difficult (or cumbersome) to simulate in Hero but might be common place (or common enough that people realize it's cumbersome to simulate it) in mainline genres (You can always find the oddball power in the fringe that doesn't have wide use elsewhere).

 

What new Power would be created to fill this void and how general could it be made so that it might hit other lightly covered areas in the Hero Power Regime?

 

TB

[Intrope]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

I'd like to expand Clinging into a more general 'Traction Control' power that allows you to define all sorts of different 'surfaces' that you can treat as 'ground'. Like water for instance: I've always thought Flight, not fly(-1/2) was a stupid mechanic for speedsters.

 

I'd like Accurate & No turn mode as standard adders/advantages for all movement powers.

 

A standard Scale mechanic: essentially the same as the Growth/Shrinking table, but it also changes the default size for your hexes. That way, large creatures/vehicles wouldn't need megascale (as often) anyway.

[Agemegos]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Well, my copy of FREd only arrived in the mail the day before yesterday, and I'm not entirely across the improvements wrought by the (very welcome) introduction of Social Disadvantages. But I think that 'Distinctive features' still needs some work. It mashes together conspicuousness, recognisability, and subjection to social prejudice. I always feel uncomfortable when a charcer gets disad points for the fact that he or she wears a uniform when at work.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Another thing I'd like to see rules for is Size. We got Shrinking and we got Growth. But we don't have anything representing how being large/small affects your chances of making and avoiding attacks in HTH. Realistically, any character that's large should get an OCV penalty equal to his DCV penalty (just as if he were normal size and his target were shrunk), but he doesn't (really, his targets should get a DCV bonus equal to his DCV penalty, but whatever).

[Zaratustra]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

The people I play with will only let you use uniform as a DF if you can't take it off.

 

Time manipulation in most forms is icky. No matter how many times they do writeups for it.

 

No Life Support against falling damage, or other various types of environmental damage humans suffer but other beings may be less vulnerable to. No easy way to have Flight be unaffected by gravity (that pesky halving of the speed when going up)

 

I'd also like a 'Omnipotence' power so I can be thorough when statting fellows like Dr. Manhattan and the Endless

[Snarf]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Absorbtion is more complicated than it has to be because it can never absorb both physical and energy damage. You have to buy the power twice, track two seperate absorbtion pools, and so on. It'd be simpler and more in-genre if those two seperate purchases of the power could be merged into one power.

[Lightray]

Power duplication and/or absorption (Duplicate Boy's or Rogue's powers). Hero has to use a clunky VPP work-around, possibly in conjunction with Transfer or Drain. Then, if someone actually uses the power you have to stop the game to figure out what powers the character gets -- some "Powers" may include Powers, Skills, Characteristics, etc.; usually the duplicated/absorbed character's write-up doesn't note that his 7 SPD is due to being a mutant or just good training.

 

Astral Form. I don't like any of the many different write-ups that Hero has come up with: Duplication, Desolidification, Clairsentience. All of them need paragraphs of explanation on how they work. To me, that sounds like you need a new Power that incorporates those explanations into its own description.

 

I've tried super-frictionless powers, but haven't had any luck coming up with a good build. Entangle? Change Environment? Nothing seems to satisfactoraly model people not being able to get any traction.

 

Agree with Zaratustra on the time manipulation -- Extra-D Move as "Time Stop" and NND Entangle as "Time Freeze" are too whacky.

[Intrope]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Although it's not terribly important, I've never been able to come up with a defense v. Usable as an Attack Movement Powers. Especially UaaA Extra-Dimensional Movement. Admittedly, that's pretty rare--but I can't think of any way for even VPP-types to build a defense (other than 'don't get hit' ).

[Zed-F]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Although it's not terribly important' date=' I've never been able to come up with a defense v. Usable as an Attack Movement Powers. Especially UaaA Extra-Dimensional Movement. Admittedly, that's pretty rare--but I can't think of any way for even VPP-types to build a defense (other than 'don't get hit' ).[/quote']

 

Dispel

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

UAA Powers are required to list an all or nothing defense that will stop the power. Having a similar power is often chosen, so having EDM or Teleport will stop UAA EDM and Teleport, respectively.

[zornwil]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

I know people don't like to hear this one, but Invulnerability. Modeling it with Desol isn't that sound, too hand-waving, and the power doesn't have its own set of guidelines unto itself as it (genre-ically) requires.

 

Also, I really think a case can be made for 4 types of attack instead of 3 - we have physical, energy, and mental. I would add "supernatural" and I would REPLACE Power Defense with that, basing it on INT. I think this works very well as a generic bases for all genres, and eliminates that dodgy what-the-heck-is-it Power Defense. Supernatural is a, well, natural catch-all. You can also use supernaturally-based and supernatural attacks as those things which don't affect physical, energy, or mental - the oogity-boogity magic stuff.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Things that can be done, but seem to be clunky:

 

-Bodyriding style Posession (Mind Control + Desolidification + Clinging... WTF?).

 

-Power Duplication/Absorption. I agree this is clunky and works way different for various characters, but having a base line power would be a better way to go IMO. I think it should be based off Multiform, Summon and Duplication (which IMO need to be a bit more similar to begin with), with advantages like "Multiple Template Duplication" or "Absorbs Memories and Skills". Mind you this is DEFINITLY a stop sign power no matter how you slice it and should be expensive.

 

-Power Reflection/Inversion: missile reflection of things other than standard missiles (like Ego Attacks or a Ranged Drain). Or lets say I want a power that causes an opponents Drain to act as an Aid or that forces a Telepath to broadcast his thoughts when he attempts to read mine. This stuff is admitedly quirky, but it's not without precident.

 

There are a lot of little things I would like to change, alter or at the very least rename. In particular, I'm not fond of the terms Darkness, Invisibility, Images or Energy Blast. I think they are slightly confusing to noobs and are not generic enough.

 

All this is, of course, just my opinion.

[zornwil]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Well, this thread should spawn some good DH articles or other such attempts at modeling these.

 

Hey, everybody...I'm interested to read your house powers for these, particularly (but not solely) the ones which are brand new powers you developed not built on any other powers.

[Resartus]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Real speedsters.

 

I love the speed chart, but the granularity is way to course. Characters like the Flash and Quicksilver are capable of doing several different tasks in a single second. You can't model this in Hero, you can model the relative speeds of different characters but not the absolute speed that you see in comics and movies. I'd like to see the speed chart changed to represent fractions of a second and then put a baseline human at speed 1 and/or have a each step on the chart increase buy a half phase equilvalent action instead of a whole action and have the chart go to 20 or 24 half-phase segments.

 

Obviously this would be a big change, so I doubt anything like it will every happen in Hero but I'd like to see it.

[Nyrath]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Things that can be done, but seem to be clunky:

-Bodyriding style Posession (Mind Control + Desolidification + Clinging... WTF?).

Are the desolidification and clinging really necessary, or are they just special effects?

 

Remember, the Hero System focuses on effects, not causes, blah, blah, blah, you've heard it a million times...

 

Are we talking about posession where the Evil Being goes and lies down in a safe place then sends their astral form to infiltrate the body of a hapless pawn? If so, then all we need is Mind Control with scads of special effects.

 

However, if you are talking about something like those "tingler" parasites from the ST:TNG episode "Conspiracy", then I have to agree that Desolidification and Clinging apply.

 

You know the drill, ignore the description of the Bodyriding, and focus on the practical effects. How can somebody attack the internal bodyrider, what are the drawbacks, that sort of thing.

 

--

SURREAL SAGE SEZ: What color is a chameleon on a mirror?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

I know people don't like to hear this one, but Invulnerability. Modeling it with Desol isn't that sound, too hand-waving, and the power doesn't have its own set of guidelines unto itself as it (genre-ically) requires.

 

Also, I really think a case can be made for 4 types of attack instead of 3 - we have physical, energy, and mental. I would add "supernatural" and I would REPLACE Power Defense with that, basing it on INT. I think this works very well as a generic bases for all genres, and eliminates that dodgy what-the-heck-is-it Power Defense. Supernatural is a, well, natural catch-all. You can also use supernaturally-based and supernatural attacks as those things which don't affect physical, energy, or mental - the oogity-boogity magic stuff.

The only problem I see with this is that "supernatural" is a SFX. I suppose "physical" and whatever could also be called that, but they are quite sound as game mechanics. In some/several cases, I've seen "supernatural" damage equate to Mental or Energy, and several "energy" attacks that would be versus Power Defense.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Are the desolidification and clinging really necessary, or are they just special effects?

 

Remember, the Hero System focuses on effects, not causes, blah, blah, blah, you've heard it a million times...

 

Are we talking about posession where the Evil Being goes and lies down in a safe place then sends their astral form to infiltrate the body of a hapless pawn? If so, then all we need is Mind Control with scads of special effects.

 

However, if you are talking about something like those "tingler" parasites from the ST:TNG episode "Conspiracy", then I have to agree that Desolidification and Clinging apply.

 

You know the drill, ignore the description of the Bodyriding, and focus on the practical effects. How can somebody attack the internal bodyrider, what are the drawbacks, that sort of thing.

 

--

SURREAL SAGE SEZ: What color is a chameleon on a mirror?

Based on the SFX, the Desol is required, as the bodyrider is immune to attacks while using this power, and the Clinging is to maintain contact with the victim. I agree it's a clunky power, but I've used it as written in a game and it really freaked out the players.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

I just thought of something else I'd like to see:

 

More granularity in Characteristics. I play mostly Champions, so it's easy to see the difference between the physical whimps, those that are "really strong" and those that juggle tanks. In a more "normal" game, it's not so clear. Almost all characters in a NCM campaign will have scores between 10-20. That only leaves a very small spread of ability (2d6, 2 1/2d6, 3d6, 3 1/2d6 and 4d6 for STR damage, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 for CV, etc).

 

STR and DEX are probably bad examples for this, and they both provide weight capacity and initiative (respectively). EGO, INT and PRE would be more what I'm getting at. Mechanically, there's absolutely no difference between a 10, 11 or 12 INT or PRE.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Are the desolidification and clinging really necessary, or are they just special effects?

 

That's the offical write up for "Bodyjacking". See UNTIL p151-152.

 

For the record, I'm not saying that the write up is "incorrect". It makes sense once you look at it closely. I just think it's very clunky.

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

Wouldn't invisibility be required too so that your ghostly knees aren't sticking out of their chest?

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Lack of Power coverage

 

In addition the the powers that have already been mentioned: The old Freaky Friday Mind Switch.

 

I agree that Shape Shifting is messed up. It shouldn't be bought like a sense-affecting power. If I paint my house or add on a new room, I haven't altered your perception of it, I've altered the thing itself.

 

Plasticman-style Shape-Shifting: I can change into a bright red and yellow easy chair with goggles, or a bright red and yellow horse with goggles, or a bright red and yellow tree with goggles. But I can't become a natural looking horse, tree, or easy chair.

 

I think there should be a size-changing adder for Shape Shift so you don't have to buy growth to become a horse, or Shrinking to become a cat. This shouldn't necessarily provide any of the benefits of Growth or Shrinking, except the mass/size change and maybe the DCV.

 

I agree that some psychic sensing powers should be available, besides having to buy Telepathy AoE, Always On, Surface Only. A "psychic impression" reading power would be nice. "Someone was murdered here a long time ago."