End Reserve and alternate REC for it

[Greatwyrm]

So, I'm working on a FH magic system. What I want to do is have spellcasting powered by an End Reserve. Instead of buying REC for the reserve, I want to use a Meditation skill or something like that. With a base time of one hour, you can make a Meditaion roll and recover an amount of END for the reserve equal to how much you make the roll by. You can also take more or less time and apply the appropriate modifier for moving up or down the time chart.

 

I know this won't get END back very fast and that's what I'm going for. I want characters to be able to store magic power, but with the knowledge they'll have to spend it wisely, since it takes a while to get it back.

 

Here are my questions:

 

1. Is there any rules reason I shouldn't do it this way? Is there some munchkiny way to break this that I'm missing?

 

2. I was thinking this wouldn't be worth a limitation on the END Reserve, since it's basically a campaign ground rule. Opinions?

[OddHat]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

Just out of personal preference, I like to keep everything operating under the same rules set. I always end up re-using Fantasy Hero NPCs in Champions, or Hero-WOD characters in FH, or whatever, and excessive campaign specific rules tend to bog things down and confuse players. YMMV, of course.

 

So, I'd do this by buying an END reserve with no REC or maybe 1 REC, then buy REC for the reserve with ODCV Concentration throughout and maybe extra time. Maybe even Requires a skill (Meditation) roll.

[Nevenall]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

One thing leaps to mind. If I don't have to buy the REC for the End reserve then I would be tempted to get a reeally big reserve. Like at least 100 end because it's so cheap.

 

What I do for my fantasy campaign is require that the REC be bought equal to the Reserve. 10 END, 10 REC, and then put limitations on the REC.

 

I would suggest the same thing for yours. The REC has to equal the END in the reserve, and give the REC the limitations. Extra Time (1 hour), Must Meditate to Recover, and Only Recovers By Amount Meditation Roll is Made By.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

I agree that this wouldn't be worth a Limitation on the Reserve, since as far as I can tell the campaign-specific restrictions only apply to Recovering the END. The Limitations you describe should definitely go on the Recovery, though.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

One thing leaps to mind. If I don't have to buy the REC for the End reserve then I would be tempted to get a reeally big reserve. Like at least 100 end because it's so cheap.

 

What I do for my fantasy campaign is require that the REC be bought equal to the Reserve. 10 END, 10 REC, and then put limitations on the REC.

 

I like this approach. You could tinker with the ratio of END reserve to REC to set the timeframe for recovery of all END. For example, if you want the full reserve to require a full night's sleep, you could require REC = 1/8 of reserve, and be limited by "only when sleeping" and "Extra time - 1 hour". If they get 4 hours' sleep, half will recover.

 

This doesn't exactly match Greatwyrm's structure, however, as he wanted to base the amount recovered on the roll itself. 1 END per point the roll is made by seems like it would be very slow at an hour per roll.

 

On the other hand, Greatwyrm also noted

 

You can also take more or less time and apply the appropriate modifier for moving up or down the time chart.

 

This could be manipulated. If I have, say, a 14- Meditation roll, why not take the -4 penalty and move down to 1 roll per turn? I'll make the roll half the time (rather than about 85%), but every successful roll is at least 1 END. I'll get 300 rolls per hour (5 turns per minute x 60 minutes), so I should recover 150 END per hour (actually much more if I get an extra END for every point I make the roll by). Spend 2 points on +1 to my Meditation skill roll, and triple or quadruple that REC since I can now roll each phase with the same chance of success. That doesn't meet your standard of "takes a long time to recover".

 

I'd be inclined to require all REC on the reserve to be bought at "Extra Time - 1 hour", and cap the REC at some fraction of the reserve which provides a minimum time period for full recovery that you're comfortable with.

 

There's a certain D&D mentality which can become associated with this approach. "Get in, blow all our spells, get out, hole up and rest" As well, enemy spellcasters have the advantage that they generally won't face extra combats today, so they can blow all their resources on those pesky PC's. This will depend on how you run the game, though, and any magic system will certainly see tactics develop to maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of the spellcasters.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

Hugh's right, the way it's set up you are encouraging more rolls as this makes it more likely you get more back.

 

You could go the ways suggested previously or, if you are looking to replicate that blow your spells and go rest up, you could try something different.

 

Rather than limiting the roll dependent on the time chart you could limit according to the number of END recovered per point the roll is made by. If you were going to allow mages to meditate at certain times of the day for one hour (e.g noon and midnight) you might allow 1 END per point on a straight roll, -1 for every x2 END. Failure means no recovery for at least 12 hours. You might be able to boost the roll by meditating in relevant locations, e.g nodes of ley-lines.

 

Obviously details can be changed to reflect the number of END you'd like mages to be able to recover...

 

 

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

On a more general note, before finalizing the system, I'd be inclined to test market it with my players. If they look at it and say "no way would I play a spellcaster under those conditions", you either need to loosen it up, or accept there will be no PC spellcasters. WHich one depends on the type of campaign you want.

[Greatwyrm]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I see the point about the D&D fire-and-fill mentality, but I was trying to make something where wizards would hesitate blowing all the END RES. Mainly because it would take them a day or two to fill back up, not just a night's sleep.

 

I think I'll probably go with something very similar to what OddHat and Nevenall suggested. Funny, isn't it, how you can find ways to do stuff if you just read the rules? I gotta try it more often I guess.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I see the point about the D&D fire-and-fill mentality, but I was trying to make something where wizards would hesitate blowing all the END RES. Mainly because it would take them a day or two to fill back up, not just a night's sleep.

 

I think I'll probably go with something very similar to what OddHat and Nevenall suggested. Funny, isn't it, how you can find ways to do stuff if you just read the rules? I gotta try it more often I guess.

 

I don't think anyone was particularly saying that because it was the way it happens in D&D isn't the way it should happen in your game. Just pointing out a likely game response to that kind of change.

 

Personally that style of play does have its own character and if that is the character you are looking for then that's great. I sometimes want my mages to think before casting and this is one way to do that.

 

The best thing about these boards is that you get all kinds of ideas about how to approach the toolbox. It is so easy just to leave all the options open without considering how you could change the feel of the game by closing some options down. Removing choice isn't always a bad thing.

 

 

Doc

[Greatwyrm]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

Oh, I didn't take the D&D thing as a negative. Like you said, Doc, I just hadn't looked at it that way.

 

As far as the boards themselves, I probably wouldn't have gotten into HERO without them. As a newbie, sometimes it's a little frustrating that I can't see such simple solutions to some builds. At the same time, it's nice that you can usually get one or two much more elegant and durable ways to do stuff just by asking.

[Zanthis]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

If you want them to not blow their entire END reserve, how about

 

100 END Reserve, 1 REC, Extra Time: 1 hour

+2 REC, Extra Time: 1 hour, Only when Reserve has at least 50 END in it already

+3 REC, Extra Time: 1 hour, Only when Reserve has at least 75 END in it already

 

-OR-

 

100 END Reserve, 2 REC, Extra Time: 1 hour

Reduce Extra Time on REC to 10 minutes, Only when Reserve has at least 50 END in it already

 

The second option has less granularity since when the "at least" condition is met, you get x6 REC (although I can't remember all the straight 5E time chart steps of the top of my head so it might not be so bad). Either option would allow you to add in additional recovery (or buydown of Extra Time) via a Meditation roll.

[zornwil]

Re: End Reserve and alternate REC for it

 

You may want to post this in the Fantasy forum and see what answers you get, I don't go there but I know there are definitely fora where people stay fairly dedicated and have ideas you might not get elsewhere.