Superleap-Superpause

[PoorWandering 1]

Im my continuing quest to build the strangest charactor ever I hit on the idea of a superleap based speedster. This led to the realization that Superleap is the only power with a built in naptime. Apparently whem you are doing multiphase leaps you can take no actions while en route to your target.

 

Why?

If you are using your x ungodly superleap NCM to jump from NY to Pittsburg you are going to spend a good bit of time in the air. So you can't read a book? Use a healing aid mid hurtle. Use your telescopic vision to see who's sunbathing at the viper base you are carreening over. I can just get my head around disallowing attack actions midjump but even then it seems odd that a leaper could not drop a bomb onto a city they are currently passing over. Anyway this is something that i doubt will come up very often but it seems odd that Superleap is treated is this way. I could see flight having the action lockout as flying takes action but once you leap gravity and momentum take over and there is nothing you need or really can do to effect the results one way or the other. Is this the 'no attacks while moving noncombat' rule again?

Please send help, I am currently stumped.

[Hermit]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Well, I can see your points. The simplist thing is to simply waive that limitation if you're the GM, or ask your GM about it if you're a player.

 

Of course, you could always just put a trigger advantage (when leaping) on your massive Area Effect attack power... "People below, fear me, Fear... the BOUNCING BOMBADIER! MWhAHAHAHAA!"

 

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

"People below, fear me, Fear... the BOUNCING BOMBADIER! MWhAHAHAHAA!"

 

 

Well The Superleaper just got a name. I knew posting this would help :7)

I know GM's fiat can get around this, those little Italian cars are quite manuverable but i'm wondering what reasons there are for keeping the action lockout.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Actually, in general you can attack at NCM speeds, but you do so at 0 OCV. Wouldnt matter for an AoE however. However, you have to make a half move at noncombat speed to leave a 1/2 phase open for an Attack action.

 

As Hermit points out Trigger can be used to get around this; a Command Word type Trigger for example. Normally you would have to reset the trigger, but if using the expanded Trigger rules from DH you can make it self-resetting.

 

As far as leaping's "hang time" I think you'd have to go the Trigger route as the hang time disallows taking any Actions IIRC.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

As far as leaping's "hang time" I think you'd have to go the Trigger route as the hang time disallows taking any Actions IIRC.

 

I see that trigger would work for the example effect but i am trying to understand why there is an action lock out during the hangtime. It's not like you have to do anything to stay in the air or anything. So let's drop the bomb example. (rim shot) and try the read a book example for the example we will assume the leaper generates a bubble of still air so the pages are easy to turn and we will also assume a single NY to LA jump. Or if MegaScale is used a NY to LA ish jump.

[Hermit]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

In all honesty, I haven't looked at the super leap rules recently, but I can't think of a good reason either. :shrug:

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

This whole issue is just part of the larger issue of how movement in HERO doesn't really mimic reality very well. It's related to the idea that you can fly 20" in your phase, but you don't move at all during the next couple segments until it's your turn again, even though a couple people had time to fire at you in the interim. It's also why Champions vehicle combat has always been anything from headache-inducing to a total pain in the ass.

[Vigil]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Superleap does seem to be one of the most inherently limited but it's also one of my favorites, right behind running then teleport then flight then gliding. So it's right up there, right above swimming, lol. The trick here, it seems to me, is the fact that you're trying to construct a super speedster with superleap. In combat, superleap is pretty limited, as it's hard to reasonably do a move by/through with it and you're always limited by the whole arc thing. If you want to simulate leaping why not go with Teleport, must travel trhough intervening space. Of course then you don't get any velosity adds for manuevers. Odr do you? I've never really thought about it.

 

Vigil

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

In all honesty' date=' I haven't looked at the super leap rules recently, but I can't think of a good reason either. :shrug:[/quote']

 

Cool. Thanks, i figure if someone like you Hermit can't find a good reson for this then there probably isn't a good reason to be found. I suspect this only rarely comes up, is largley ignored when it does, and will vanish like the morning mist the next time Mr. Long takes a look at it.

[Labrat]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

While we're on the subject, if a 'mega-superleaper' got pushed off of the Empire State Building would he have to take damage? Talk about experience with re-orienting yourself to prepare for the landing...

 

Last time I asked this question it was met with remarkable hostility for some reason.

[Hermit]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Cool. Thanks' date=' i figure if someone like you Hermit can't find a good reson for this then there probably isn't a good reason to be found. I suspect this only rarely comes up, is largley ignored when it does, and will vanish like the morning mist the next time Mr. Long takes a look at it.[/quote']

 

Whoa there... I appreciate the ego boost, but truthfully there are many on this very board far better versed in the whys and wherefores than I.

 

Have you thought about PMing Steve Long with a polite querry on why this is so? He may not give you the answer you want, but he's usually responsive when asked, and always polite that I've seen.

[Hermit]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

While we're on the subject, if a 'mega-superleaper' got pushed off of the Empire State Building would he have to take damage? Talk about experience with re-orienting yourself to prepare for the landing...

 

Last time I asked this question it was met with remarkable hostility for some reason.

 

I think it would depend a lot on what 'age' you were playing in. A silver age campaign might have the GM allow such a thing as using the active points to reduce the damage taken from the fall or whatever.

 

I think the "Power" skill is ideal for those sorts of situations myself.

[Vigil]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

I would think that dependent on the number of inches of Superleap it's entirely possible that the charcter could just absorb the impact, kinda like any other landing. And if you added Breakfall and Position Shift that it would be a lock to take no damage from even epic falls.

[KA.]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

PoorWandering 1,

I can see your point, especially based on the time some Superleaps can take, but I do have some support for the way things currently work.

 

"Reality" - I hate to bring that word into a discussion of a game, but since Hero does at least try to model reality to some extent, there is nothing wrong with giving it a nod.

If you look at the closest real-world examples of "Superleap", they are the Long Jump and the High Jump. A person runs, jumps, and tries to get as much Distance/Elevation as possible. If you watch athletes in either of these competitions, you will see that they do not just push with their legs and then go inert.

When they jump you see them moving, adjusting, straining, doing everything in their power to get a little more distance. I don't know that it does any good, maybe it has something to do with wind resistance. But they do it, nevertheless.

In Hero, there is an important difference, pointswise and otherwise, between Superleap and Flight.

Superleap is the pitting of raw power against gravity. It is muscular and athletic.

Flight is a bit more effortless, or at least it looks that way. While birds strain to increase speed or gain altitude, they glide without seeming to work at it.

 

So, when Superleaping, I don't assume the person is just floating along. I assume they are straining for distance. (I realize this would look pretty silly over a huge leap. Perhaps their adjustments are a bit more subtle. But I still think it requires concentration.)

 

KA.

[Labrat]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

KA

I think that there is actually a good example of this in the Hulk movie. If you watch his superleaps, he looks like he's making adjustments just like you mention.

[Hermit]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

This brings up an interesting idea...

 

One could buy a sort of combo of Super Leap and Gliding... and have the gliding part labeled Sloooow Landing with appropriate limitations to reflect less control than the average glide. Use the Leap to hit a hex somewhere a mile or so up, then switch to the glide.

 

Think that would work?

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Super leap + Gliding. Hmmm slap a limit 'cannot gain altitude or change direction, must follow superleap arc' and it would neatly remove the 'no actions' issue. Good idea. And it compines 2 of the less seen movement powers. Now i'f i can find a way to combine superleap and swimming.....

[Vigil]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

That's easy. Call it SUPER DIVING and use the superleap as downward motion only, only into water and then using the swimming componet for levelling out orfor moving beyond the dive. Just an idea.

[Vigil]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

err, I meant using the Gliding component thereafter. Buy Gliding, with the Flight modifier, usable underwater and maybe Link it to the superleap. That actually makes a lot of sense.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

That's easy. Call it SUPER DIVING and use the superleap as downward motion only' date=' only into water and then using the swimming componet for levelling out orfor moving beyond the dive. Just an idea.[/quote']

 

I love it add some LS and the super could dive from orbit

[Vigil]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

cool. glad you like it. Post the write up whne you can. lol

[Vigil]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

In fact, you could call the character ALBATROSS, lol. Wow! That is cool, lol.

[Labrat]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Didn't Marrina from Alpha Flight have that power? Like a water spout leap that sent her miles inland?

 

It may just be my poor memory...

[Gary]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

While we're on the subject, if a 'mega-superleaper' got pushed off of the Empire State Building would he have to take damage? Talk about experience with re-orienting yourself to prepare for the landing...

 

Last time I asked this question it was met with remarkable hostility for some reason.

 

 

According to the rules, you're allowed to use a character's upward leap to reduce the damage from falls. So someone with 30" leap would normally have 15" upward leap and would take 15d6 damage from a terminal velocity fall instead of 30d6.

[Gary]

Re: Superleap-Superpause

 

Superleap does seem to be one of the most inherently limited but it's also one of my favorites, right behind running then teleport then flight then gliding. So it's right up there, right above swimming, lol. The trick here, it seems to me, is the fact that you're trying to construct a super speedster with superleap. In combat, superleap is pretty limited, as it's hard to reasonably do a move by/through with it and you're always limited by the whole arc thing. If you want to simulate leaping why not go with Teleport, must travel trhough intervening space. Of course then you don't get any velosity adds for manuevers. Odr do you? I've never really thought about it.

 

Vigil

 

 

I find that Stretching combined with Superleap makes a great combination for a brick. The stretching covers most of the weaknesses and limitations of Superleap.