Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

[Michael Hopcroft]

I want to enchant the quiver of an archer characacter so that he always has a supply of arrows. Whenever an arrow is drawn, another arrow just like it is "snatched" from the Elemntal plane of Arrows to take its place -- thus the archer will never run out of arrows not matter how many he shoots.

 

Each arrow only exists for about one hour before returning to its hoem plane -- long enough to do its damage, and since the enemy doesn;t know the difference they'll still spend time time and energy to pull the arrows out of the wound, possbily foing more damage on the way out. But it does save the trouble of having to go around the battlefield and pick up the used arrows -- and prevent the archer from having to carry around hundreds of used arrows.

[philnicau]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Simple don't purchase Charges on the Bow and Arrow, therefore he never has to worry about running out.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Simple don't purchase Charges on the Bow and Arrow' date=' therefore he never has to worry about running out.[/quote']

But that would mean he would have to pay points for the bow, arrows and quiver (but\ying an attack) -- something Fanatsy HERO characters don;t nornmally have to do.

 

But I suppose it would fit if the bow and quiver has such an unusual property, although the bow is just an oridnary bow to anyone who doesnt;l have the enchanted Quiver of Never-Ending Arrows.

 

Nice to see another Azumanga Daioh fan on the boards, by the way. Oasaka-chan isn't dumb -- she's a Zen master!

[OddHat]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

But that would mean he would have to pay points for the bow, arrows and quiver (but\ying an attack) -- something Fanatsy HERO characters don;t nornmally have to do.

 

1d6+1 RKA, 0 End, OIF:Quiver of Neverending Arrows, Requires bow (-1/4), Extra Time (-1/4), Independent (-2). RC: 7 points.

 

For starting with a magic weapon, that's not bad.

[CourtFool]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

1d6+1 RKA' date=' 0 End, OIF:Quiver of Neverending Arrows, Requires bow (-1/4), Extra Time (-1/4), Independent (-2). RC: 7 points.[/quote']

Correct me if I am wrong, but do you really need to buy Reduced Endurance? You have to pay END to fire a real bow, right? You could also tack on Concentration 1/2 DCV -1/4 as per Fantasy Hero on Firing A Bow.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

1d6+1 RKA, 0 End, OIF:Quiver of Neverending Arrows, Requires bow (-1/4), Extra Time (-1/4), Independent (-2). RC: 7 points.

 

For starting with a magic weapon, that's not bad.

How would you build that as a HD prefab?

 

By the way, is there going to be a FH book of items, with point costs and the like, in the same style as the Grimoires?

[OddHat]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Save as Prefab. See attached.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

If the character can fly you might want to add some power to simulate that he could just fly high above the battlefield and turn the quiver upside down and let an endless rain of arrows pour out.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

If the character can fly you might want to add some power to simulate that he could just fly high above the battlefield and turn the quiver upside down and let an endless rain of arrows pour out.

Now that's a bit much of a stretch, beside which the arrows would be coming down point-up and just bounce off their targets harmlessly.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Now that's a bit much of a stretch' date=' beside which the arrows would be coming down point-up and just bounce off their targets harmlessly.[/quote']

 

Oh, I know that. I could just see my players trying it though, and insisting that the arrowheads would be heavy enough to make them swing around and fall the right way.

[Markdoc]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Well, in fact the arrows *would* fall pont first. Not that it matters - they'd be falling more slowly than if shot with a bow under normal conditions, and I'd still rule that only one arrow came out per phase, so he'd be better off just shooting them.

 

In other words, I'd allow the trick, but reduce the damage by 1 or two DC and reduce his OCV to 0 (dropping an arrow back end first out of quiver doesn't count as aiming....) to take account of the fact that he was getting a 0-END attack

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Well, in fact the arrows *would* fall pont first. Not that it matters - they'd be falling more slowly than if shot with a bow under normal conditions, and I'd still rule that only one arrow came out per phase, so he'd be better off just shooting them.

 

In other words, I'd allow the trick, but reduce the damage by 1 or two DC and reduce his OCV to 0 (dropping an arrow back end first out of quiver doesn't count as aiming....) to take account of the fact that he was getting a 0-END attack

I can;t see how the one-arrow-per-round would be falling fast enough to do any damage at all -- certainly not fast enough to penetrate armor, and they may even bounce harmlessly off heavy coothing. Plus the flying character makes a nice, fat target for the enemy's archers.

 

If you want to fly and drop something useful, try Quiver-Of-Endless-Oil Flasks. You don;t need to aim -- you;d just drop the flask and on the way down a flint-and-steel lights a cloth. the flask landsm, shatters, and covers whatever it hits with flkaming oil. Elves hate this -- it;s a great way to start forest fires, and nothing annoys elves more than a forest fire.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

you guys want the easy way. The Quiver's power is to Summon an arrow. How many CP is an arrow worth? You probably need to add a "computer" to summon the arrow so you don't have to use a phase.

 

I suppose you could use TRansform - Air into Arrow instead, with the same logic.

 

hmmm...Maybe the quiver can be a very small Vehicle that sold back all its movement...

 

Anyway, back to reality, you need to set the KA high enough to match any bow the arrow will be fired from. Does 1d6 + 1 do the trick?

 

I'd call "requires Bow" OAF Bow - more than -1/4.

 

Assuming you have a magic quiver, shouldn't it also be a focus?

 

Finally, only take Independent if you are prepared to lose the quiver permanently at some point in time. It shouldn't be viewed as a free -2 limitation.

 

.....

 

Wait, did you want to make the item, or cast a spell to enchant the quiver? The build given creates one enchanted quiver which you own (or can give away) for 7 points.

 

 

To enchant a quiver at will, you'd need something like:

 

1d6+1 RKA, Usable by Other (+1/4 - assuming you can only create one at a time), 25 Active Points; OIF:Quiver of Neverending Arrows (-1/2), Requires bow to fire (-1/2 bringing total focus limit to -1), Extra Time (-1/4; full phase to fire arrow), 2 handed Gestures (-1/2; you need them to cast and he needs them to fire the bow), [no Incantations as not needed to fire the bow; no RSR since you don't want that for every arrow fired], STR minimum (not sure of limit; I'll say -1/4 and be conservative), Spell (-1/2; assuming that's allowed in the campaign and not a default). So that's 25/4.5 = 6

 

Alternatively, what about just figuring out the value of the "charges" limitation on the bow and buying it off using the spell. plus adding Costs END. Bows are generally assumed to have 12 arrows, right? So call that:

 

Naked advantage on RKA: +1/2 (1/4 to eliminate 12 charges; +1/4 to make END only to activate) on up to 2 1/2d6 RKA (that should get any bow; 40 x 1/2 = 20) Usably by one other (+1/4) so 25 AP. Target needs OAF Bow and OIF Quiver (-1), Extra Time (full phase, only to activate; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires a skill roll (-1/2) [note that these only affect the casting of the spell, other than the focus which the target needs to carry] That's 8 points.

 

You need to make this Uncontrolled, I believe, unless you want the quiver to stop working if you're KO'd, so that makes it 35 AP, 11 RP. Let's call it Uncontrolled lasts for 1 hour + 1 hour per point by which the magic roll is made.

[OddHat]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

I can;t see how the one-arrow-per-round would be falling fast enough to do any damage at all -- certainly not fast enough to penetrate armor, and they may even bounce harmlessly off heavy coothing. Plus the flying character makes a nice, fat target for the enemy's archers.

 

If you want to fly and drop something useful, try Quiver-Of-Endless-Oil Flasks. You don;t need to aim -- you;d just drop the flask and on the way down a flint-and-steel lights a cloth. the flask landsm, shatters, and covers whatever it hits with flkaming oil. Elves hate this -- it;s a great way to start forest fires, and nothing annoys elves more than a forest fire.

 

You can always tell the player he has to try ro do it as a Power Stunt using his Skill:Enchant Item. When he explains that he has no such skill, offer to allow him to do it as a one time stunt for 1 XP. If he won't do that, or has no saved XP, rule that the arrows can only be drawn out one at a time by a living hand with the intent of shooting them from a bow, and that his knowledge and will power are insufficient to warp the enchantment.

 

Or, throw some dice at him. Or a glass. Whatever.

[Angry Gumby]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

I have to say, I wonder if buying the RKA is the right way to go. The quiver is creating a physical object for one hour. During that hour, the arrow could be given to someone else, or thrown into a pile and used as firewood, or whatever. It's not just a killing attack. It's a physical object that can be used as a killing attack, among other things.

 

There is one power that allows for creating objects out of thin air in its description, and that's transform. So:

 

How about something like this?

 

Major Transform (thin air into arrow) 1d6. Transform "heals" back after one hour. 0 end cost (+1/2). OAF quiver (-1), independent (-2), gestures (-1/4 -- must "pull" arrow from quiver), limited target (air inside the quiver, -1). 23 active, 4 real points.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

There is one power that allows for creating objects out of thin air in its description, and that's transform. So:

 

How about something like this?

 

Major Transform (thin air into arrow) 1d6. Transform "heals" back after one hour. 0 end cost (+1/2). OAF quiver (-1), independent (-2), gestures (-1/4 -- must "pull" arrow from quiver), limited target (air inside the quiver, -1). 23 active, 4 real points.

 

I believe "Limited Target" isn't available on "Air to Object" transforms, but I could be wrong. I'm also still unclear whether the object is to build a magic item, or a spell that enchants a normal item for an hour. To have a spell allowing a quiver to be enchanted, using the same Transform, one could use:

 

Major Transform (thin air into arrow) 1d6. Transform "heals" back after one hour. 0 end cost (+1/2), Usable by one other (+1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2 lasts 1 hour or until quiver destroyed), Continuous (+1 - Transform happens automatically if the quiver has no arrow); 49 AP. OAF Quiver (-1) is obvious and would cost 24 RP. It needs some limitations to make it into a Spell, though, so let's add Extra Time - 1 phase so it takes a full phase to enchant the quiver (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) and RSR (-1/2). That makes a cost of 14. You could always make it take longer to cast (you won't likely cast in combat anyway) and, if so, make Gestures and Incantations required throughout, add Concentration, etc. to further reduce the cost. Make it take a turn to cast (-1 rather than -1/2), require 2 handed gestures throughout (-3/4 instead of -1/4), Incant throughout (-1/2 instead of -1/4) and Concentrate (0 DCV throughout -1) to get the real cost down to about 9.

 

How many BOD does an arrow have anyway? If you went 1/2 d6 Transform (2 BOD standard effect), that would be 32 AP. 9 RP (or 6 if you slap those extra limits on it)

 

What would it cost to Summon an arrow? I'm guessing this would be quite a bit cheaper, more in line with what you get compared to a KA that you can allow others to use.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Reason from effects: The effect is that you always have an arrow available. Therefore, just buy off the Focus limitation on the arrows, and perhaps any Charges limitation as well.

 

Also, re: the idea of flying and letting the arrows fall out of the quiver by gravity: If you're high enough, the arrows will accellerate enough to do just as much (maybe more!) damage as they would if fired from a bow. After all, they are aerodynamic and would have a rather high terminal velocity. However, it would be almost impossible to aim, even with the slightest of crosswinds, especially considering the arrow has to flip upside-down on its way down. If you fire from a bow, you can deliberately adjust your aim to account for the wind, but not if you're just letting them fall.

[Angry Gumby]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

I think you would get "limited target" because it's not any air that you can transform -- only the air inside the quiver. You couldn't, for example, create an arrow in your bow-wielding buddy's hand. Also, I doubt "uncontrolled" is needed b/c transform always sticks around until it "heals" under conditions you specify (i.e., the one hour time span).

 

At least, I think that's how I'd build it in my game.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

I think you would get "limited target" because it's not any air that you can transform -- only the air inside the quiver. You couldn't' date=' for example, create an arrow in your bow-wielding buddy's hand.[/quote']

 

On reflection, while I would still not allow "limited target", "No Range" is clearly applicable.

 

Also' date=' I doubt "uncontrolled" is needed b/c transform always sticks around until it "heals" under conditions you specify (i.e., the one hour time span). [/quote']

 

Which means the one arrow created will stick around for one hour. However, if you are KO'd, the quiver you gave to your buddy stops working, because a UBO power only works while the actual "owner" of the power is conscious and within LOS. I suppose one could Transform a quiver into a magic quiver which itself has a Transform ability itself (designed as a power with a computer to enable it to operate on its own).

 

I like the "naked advantage on bow to remove the 12 charges limitation" approach myself. I suppose you also need to add 0 END, since END costs come back with the Charges limitation gone, but firing a bow uses some END anyway.

[Guest rbezold]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

1d6+1 RKA, 0 End, OIF:Quiver of Neverending Arrows, Requires bow (-1/4), Extra Time (-1/4), Independent (-2). RC: 7 points.

 

For starting with a magic weapon, that's not bad.

 

I agree. If you're going to have a magic power/weapon, you have to expect to pay points for it, and even in a 100pt campaign 7 isn't much.

[Angry Gumby]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

I don't think this is true -- transform isn't a power that goes away when you are knocked out. It stays around until it "heals." If I transform a person into a frog, they don't become a person again if I am knocked out. They have to meet the conditions I specify under "healing" the transformation.

 

Also, transform is no range by default.

 

On reflection, while I would still not allow "limited target", "No Range" is clearly applicable.

 

 

 

Which means the one arrow created will stick around for one hour. However, if you are KO'd, the quiver you gave to your buddy stops working, because a UBO power only works while the actual "owner" of the power is conscious and within LOS. I suppose one could Transform a quiver into a magic quiver which itself has a Transform ability itself (designed as a power with a computer to enable it to operate on its own).

 

I like the "naked advantage on bow to remove the 12 charges limitation" approach myself. I suppose you also need to add 0 END, since END costs come back with the Charges limitation gone, but firing a bow uses some END anyway.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

I don't think this is true -- transform isn't a power that goes away when you are knocked out. It stays around until it "heals." If I transform a person into a frog' date=' they don't become a person again if I am knocked out. They have to meet the conditions I specify under "healing" the transformation[/quote']

 

If I buy Tranform Air into Arrow, the air stays an arrow until the healing condition is met.

 

If I buy Tranform Air into Arrow, and make it Usable by Other so I can hand the quiver to my buddy, the Archer, and now he gets an arrow every phase, I have to follow the UBO rules (5e p 176) If I lose LOS, or am knocked out, the Transform ceases to be available to the Archer.

 

I can buy the power Persistent (not uncontrolled, as I recalled) to allow my friend to keep the power even if we lose LOS or I am KO'd.

 

Also' date=' transform is no range by default.[/quote']

 

No, Tranform has the usual 5x AP range. Transfer is no range by default.

[Drakkenkin]

Re: Help me build a spell: Never-Ending Arrows

 

Sense this is an object that cant' be replaced (the quiver), can't you just make it independent?