Are there ever too many points?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

In general, I think a lot of superheroes, especially high point superheroes tend to skimp on Perks. Contacts, connections, reputation. Look at Spiderman. The man has been around forever and he's teamed up with practically everyone over the years (and fought a good number of them as well). There many be one or two superbeings on the planet who haven't heard of him, and there aren't a huge list of superheroes that he can't call on for help or information. And even ones he hasn't met have heard of him.

 

Don't neglect knowledge skills as well. Again, let's use Spidey as an example. The man has a lot of knowledge about the superhero community. Perhaps not as much as Captain America, whose idea of light reading is to read the updates to the files of every superhero and supervillain out there, but he knows a lot about a lot of the major movers and shakers in the superhero community.

 

If you've still got points left over, well, take a look at your power level, look at skill levels, especially overall skill levels. Those can burn up points real fast.

 

Definitely agreed. Perks and Background skills definitely should not be underestimated. A good sized part of why Cap would count as a megahero is because he has a ton of Contacts, a big Reputation, and a whole bunch of Fringe Benefits.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Nope, one idea is that in a conversation like this it's useful to distinguish between actual game mechanics and personal taste.

 

But I do notice that you've started to add "without munchkinism" to some of your posts, which is a plus.

 

The problem is the disconnect between mechanics and "style." If you are going to have the veneer of being a world-class hero, you should have the mechanics-based abilities to back it up.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Which is fine, I guess.

 

Of course, XP is a mechanism intended to enable the game to model what happens in the comics, rather than vice versa, so "power escalation" is probably the technically more correct term.

 

Anyway, I _prefer_ to set my universes a bit earlier in the escalation cycle. That's irrelevant, of course. But I also make use of megavillains. They're too interesting to be ignored.

 

But that just raises the question: "how come Galactus hasn't eaten the Earth?", doesn't it?

 

The problem is, you only really can shift the escalation back a limited amount, based mainly on how long ago the current Age of Heroes has lasted.

 

And most of the canon dimensional conqueror types are easy enough to explain: they haven't shown up yet because the ambient mana level only rose enough to draw their interest recently. Space gods, its tougher, but Champs U doesn't really have any clearly defined space god types in the 20th/21st century.

[OddHat]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

The problem is the disconnect between mechanics and "style." If you are going to have the veneer of being a world-class hero' date=' you should have the mechanics-based abilities to back it up.[/quote']

 

I loved Gary's post on this part of the discussion in the other thread. Great run down.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

I loved Gary's post on this part of the discussion in the other thread. Great run down.

 

Agreed.

 

Now, if someone follows those guidelines, they should see why High Powered = High Points. As opposed to Low Points + Usage the System Never Intended.

[OddHat]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Now, if someone follows those guidelines, they should see why High Powered = High Points. As opposed to Low Points + Usage the System Never Intended.

 

Legal but potentially ridiculously unbalancing powers like Transdimensional anything and Megascal Knockback are GM's calls, as is everything on Gary's list. Right now it's a pure GM's call whether or not High Power = High Points, and that is what Steve and the rest of DoJ intended.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Legal but potentially ridiculously unbalancing powers like Transdimensional anything and Megascal Knockback are GM's calls' date=' as is everything on Gary's list. Right now it's a pure GM's call whether or not High Power = High Points, and that is what Steve and the rest of DoJ intended.[/quote']

 

 

Oddhat is The Messiah of the Champions Board!

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

I thought Robbie played Con-El?

 

He was always real fond of bricks with ECs

 

Uh, yeah, he did.

 

... Umm... who ARE you, anyway? How do you know Rob?

[Eosin]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

I played in the X-babies campaign that Audie ran over at Bryan Warrens house about a decade back.

 

I go by the pseudonym of "that big goofy bastard" but my friends call me Randy (I am a big fella coming in at 6'7" - 250 lbs). I only played a handful of times at Tom's store and once or twice at George Moses's (early 90's).

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

I played in the X-babies campaign that Audie ran over at Bryan Warrens house about a decade back.

 

I go by the pseudonym of "that big goofy bastard" but my friends call me Randy (I am a big fella coming in at 6'7" - 250 lbs). I only played a handful of times at Tom's store and once or twice at George Moses's (early 90's).

You played in some hilariously over-the-top games then. I tried a George Moses game once. Not my cup of tea.

[Eosin]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

You played in some hilariously over-the-top games then. I tried a George Moses game once. Not my cup of tea.

 

Not mine either, a tad too powerful for me . That is why I only played there once or twice. I did run a D&D game at Tom's for 4-5 sessions before we moved it to a quieter locale (hence the "handful").

 

 

PS - X-babies was not over the top IMO. Infact we were fairly much puds only fit to beat on each other, thankfully that was our favorite hobby til Gridiron bought "Safe in Radioactive environments."

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Not mine either' date=' a tad too powerful for me . That is why I only played there once or twice. I did run a D&D game at Tom's for 4-5 sessions before we moved it to a quieter locale (hence the "handful").[/quote'] Nothing like watching George Moses focus in on a player and torment their character for fun. Wow! I walked out of that one session and never looked back but I can't get rid of the flashbacks.

 

I've played some at Tom's but I prefer to play at someone's house more, depending on the house of course. Tom's set-up is better now than it was back then and the groups don't seem to intrude on each other's fun as much as they used to.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Legal but potentially ridiculously unbalancing powers like Transdimensional anything and Megascal Knockback are GM's calls' date=' as is everything on Gary's list. Right now it's a pure GM's call whether or not High Power = High Points, and that is what Steve and the rest of DoJ intended.[/quote']

 

The thing is, even if you can construct insanely powerful characters using those tricks, can you construct any given character concept *well* ( that is, cleanly and accurately )??

 

I would say no. Even if you avoid outright illegal stuff like EC abuse, there are many concepts that simply can't be compressed without doing things that just don't make sense. Obviously, unless the concept inherently includes sweeping limitations like OIF or OIHID, you can't really tag that on. Reed-type characters, or any character with more than one distinct special effect, cannot be compressed well because frameworks are supposed to have a defined special effect. Batman-types are the worst, as skill lists are expensive, and the only way around the expense would be a skill VPP, for which it should be pretty clear how abusive it would be when applied unlimited.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Allot has been said about simulating character concepts on too few points' date=' but has anyone ever run into having too many points for a certain concept? I seem to have run across that with some of the character concepts for Seeds of Change. The players have basically run out of places to spend their points in a couple of places without altering their concepts. Not complaining about it, just an odd phenomena I haven't really run into before.[/quote']

 

Well, when the players were designing characters for the New Sentinels campaign, at first one of the players was considering playing a super-speedster, ala the Flash. What we quickly discovered was not so much that there were too many points, but that many (750) pts effectively at all resulted in a character that demolishes most scenarios. As any CHAMPIONS player can tell you, SPD kills, and building a speedster on high points demonstrates that very, very effectively, even if said speedster is completely in line with comic portrayals of such characters and isn't uber-cheesed. Being able to always move first - and almost always second - when combined with reasonable offensive and defensive capacity and power constructs which mimic the sorts of things you see in the comics = really ridiculously huge advantage most of the time.

 

There comes a certain point where a VPP with enough points in it pretty much results in the same problem, unless the VPP is either inherently limited in some manner or in which it belongs to a character that has Psych Lims and other Disadvantages which functionally limit it. An example of the second principle is Skarn the Shaper. It would be easy for even a modestly-competent GM to use Skarn's VPP to produce "game over" effects, even without relying on constructs such as Megascale AoE attacks, were Skarn himself not built with Disads (such as his sense of fairness and desire for competition) which limit the effects he's going to use. As an example of the former, Arcane (from CHAMPIONS 3000) is the sort of guy who really is more of a plot device or cosmic entity than a character. I don't know how you can really use him in a game and have him lose, because with a 33 INT, he'll always have pre-set his 250 pt, NSRR, Half-Phase Change VPP to some sort of defensive structure (galactic-scale Danger Sense is a good start) that prevents him from getting taken out by surprise, and if he gets a chance to take an action, he can do just about anything imaginable.

 

Beyond that, when I build opponents for he New Sentinels campaigns, sometimes I build character concepts that simply don't need as many points as others. Some things can be done more cheaply than others - one can make an incredibly effective brick more cheaply than one can make a Master of Sinanju, for example, because the second simply *does* so many things. If you want to make someone who is simply a pure and somewhat realistic martial artist - someone styled on Shang Chi, vs. Remo Williams - well, you can do that on a hell of a lot fewer points.

 

As far as running out of places for player characters to spend XP, I've never had that happen. I've sometimes played the same character weekly for a couple of years and always found good places to put XP without violating the character concept. The Batman-style character can always use a few more skills and gadgets. The brick can always learn a few more power stunts. However, I could see it happening with some sorts of characters. I could see how a Hawkeye/Green Arrow-style character might eventually have so many points that he's pretty much effectively maxed out what one can do with arrows, has a 18+ OCV with effectively No Range Modifiers, Find Weakness to the ridiculous level, and relevant Skills are already at trans-Olympic levels. Similarly, a guy like Wildcat - well, he's not going to take up studying 37 other martial arts, and giving him hardened body armor pretty much violates the concept. So, I guess I'd say that if you get to the point that a character has run out of places to put points, you probably are dealing with a fairly narrow character concept (which is not to say it's a bad one - Wildcat is probably my all-time favorite comic character, and Hawkeye is a perfectly valid character as well), or you're dealing with a limited campaign scale of some sort (which can also be fine; my old Street Hero campaign was great, but really, there's no point in having 735-pt characters in that sort of setting).

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Definitely agreed. Perks and Background skills definitely should not be underestimated. A good sized part of why Cap would count as a megahero is because he has a ton of Contacts' date=' a big Reputation, and a whole bunch of Fringe Benefits.[/quote']

 

Righto. One of the great moments in comics past was when Gyrich was overseeing the Avengers and he attempted to veto a mission, and Cap got fed up and stormed out of the room to make a call. A minute later, Gyrich was on the phone getting chewed out by the President of the USA.

 

Contact: President costs a fair number of points and isn't for every character, but it's the sort of things some characters should have.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Well' date=' when the players were designing characters for the New Sentinels campaign, at first one of the players was considering playing a super-speedster, ala the Flash. What we quickly discovered was not so much that there were too many points, but that many (750) pts effectively at all resulted in a character that demolishes most scenarios. As any CHAMPIONS player can tell you, SPD kills, and building a speedster on high points demonstrates that very, very effectively, even if said speedster is completely in line with comic portrayals of such characters and isn't uber-cheesed. Being able to always move first - and almost always second - when combined with reasonable offensive and defensive capacity and power constructs which mimic the sorts of things you see in the comics = really ridiculously huge advantage most of the time. [/quote']

 

Well, I've got a speedster like that. The character I ran in our longest-running game, Phaeton, had a 38 Dex and a 10 Speed. Add in his 65 point cosmic VPP for "speed tricks", and he was hell on wheels (he liked to leave the VPP in Hand Attack--and this was 4th Edition). But while he could be frighteningly powerful and effective (he could crack about 45D6 for his Passing Strike if I wanted to push everything and blow through his Endurance--Black Hole Punch!), you could also take him down fairly easily. Defensively, he was the weakest character in the game. If you could get in a good hit on him, he'd drop (of course, in that campaign, a "good hit" means about 20-25D6). And remember, speedsters act first, but that means they almost never have a phase where they can abort.

 

As an example of the former, Arcane (from CHAMPIONS 3000) is the sort of guy who really is more of a plot device or cosmic entity than a character. I don't know how you can really use him in a game and have him lose, because with a 33 INT, he'll always have pre-set his 250 pt, NSRR, Half-Phase Change VPP to some sort of defensive structure (galactic-scale Danger Sense is a good start) that prevents him from getting taken out by surprise, and if he gets a chance to take an action, he can do just about anything imaginable.

 

I've done it. I'm running a Galactic Champions game right now, and the characters recently beat Arcane into the ground. Sure, Arcane had been screwing around with them, until they ruined his master plan. At that point, he shifted his VPP into a big-ass RKA, and 75% reduction (he could have been sneakier, but I figured he didn't need to be). He dropped in one phase. That's what happens when the GM underestimates how much damage the players can do (one brick grabbed the shrinking brick, and they performed a fastball special maneuver--lots of dice = Arcane taking a nap). Could I have been more cheesy with him? Sure, but I figured the 75% reduction would easily be enough while he blasted them to bits. Oops.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Not mine either, a tad too powerful for me . That is why I only played there once or twice. I did run a D&D game at Tom's for 4-5 sessions before we moved it to a quieter locale (hence the "handful").

 

 

PS - X-babies was not over the top IMO. Infact we were fairly much puds only fit to beat on each other, thankfully that was our favorite hobby til Gridiron bought "Safe in Radioactive environments."

 

Ahh... Gridiron.

 

Rob still talks about that character all the time.

 

Gridiron: Hey Jubilee, here's a 20. Buy me a new football when you're at the mall.

Jubilee: Thanks!

Gridiron: Hey, you ARE buying me a football with that.

Jubilee: Whatever.

Rob: Okay, Audie, I grab her arm.

Audie: Okay, she uses her fireworks power on you.

Rob: I squeeze.

Audie: She really starts using it more. Your clothes catch on fire.

Rob: Okay, I rip her arm off.

Audie: Okay, she dies.

Rob: Alright, I take my 20 and leave.

Audie: ..... That didn't happen! That didn't happen!

 

and then

 

Gridiron sees an SS troop beating an old woman on Nazi World.

Gridiron: Hey, nazis hate cripples, don't they? Rrrriiiipppp! (arm comes off)

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Well' date=' I've got a speedster like that. The character I ran in our longest-running game, Phaeton, had a 38 Dex and a 10 Speed. Add in his 65 point cosmic VPP for "speed tricks", and he was hell on wheels (he liked to leave the VPP in Hand Attack--and this was 4th Edition). But while he could be frighteningly powerful and effective (he could crack about 45D6 for his Passing Strike if I wanted to push everything and blow through his Endurance--Black Hole Punch!), you could also take him down fairly easily. Defensively, he was the weakest character in the game. If you could get in a good hit on him, he'd drop (of course, in that campaign, a "good hit" means about 20-25D6). And remember, speedsters act first, but that means they almost never have a phase where they can abort.[/quote']

 

Add 12 SPD into the equation vs. 10. Then you have a phase where you can do anything you want and most characters can't do squat about it. Combine it with a Dispel/Transform effect to take apart a bad guy's stuff and the fight can get turned right there.

 

Also, even when playing a low-powered Speedster, I've often withheld my phase in order to leave open the possibility of aborting. High SPD means you can afford to do that every now and then and *still* get to take lots of actions.

 

 

I've done it. I'm running a Galactic Champions game right now, and the characters recently beat Arcane into the ground. Sure, Arcane had been screwing around with them, until they ruined his master plan. At that point, he shifted his VPP into a big-ass RKA, and 75% reduction (he could have been sneakier, but I figured he didn't need to be). He dropped in one phase. That's what happens when the GM underestimates how much damage the players can do (one brick grabbed the shrinking brick, and they performed a fastball special maneuver--lots of dice = Arcane taking a nap). Could I have been more cheesy with him? Sure, but I figured the 75% reduction would easily be enough while he blasted them to bits. Oops.

 

I'm glad to hear you're running GC. Overall, how are you and your players liking the setting? Would they/you be interesting in posting some of the PC stats? I'm always interested in seeing how others build characters at that point level.

 

In any case, as you yourself admit, you didn't play Arcane up to full potential there. 75% DR and a big KA is rarely a bad thing, mind you, but there are lots of other things he could have done which are much smarter (and remember, 33 INT and 16- Tactics). One that comes to mind offhand is a good-sized AOE NND, Ego Attack or AVLD Drain/Transfer w/ Hole in the Middle. With minimal tinkering, he probably could have done that at good power along with most or all of the Damage Reduction and either taken out or at least stunned most of the opponents, stood up to a counter-attack by fewer opponents, then followed up next phase with the big KA or some other power to finish off those still on their feet from the first one.

 

Fighting teams requires team strategy, and "Supremely Overconfident" doesn't equate to "Fights Below Potential." His Overconfidence may cause him to leave a few vulnerable spots to his defenses, but some people can be Overconfident for fairly good reason.

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Add 12 SPD into the equation vs. 10. Then you have a phase where you can do anything you want and most characters can't do squat about it. Combine it with a Dispel/Transform effect to take apart a bad guy's stuff and the fight can get turned right there.

 

Also, even when playing a low-powered Speedster, I've often withheld my phase in order to leave open the possibility of aborting. High SPD means you can afford to do that every now and then and *still* get to take lots of actions.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad to hear you're running GC. Overall, how are you and your players liking the setting? Would they/you be interesting in posting some of the PC stats? I'm always interested in seeing how others build characters at that point level.

 

In any case, as you yourself admit, you didn't play Arcane up to full potential there. 75% DR and a big KA is rarely a bad thing, mind you, but there are lots of other things he could have done which are much smarter (and remember, 33 INT and 16- Tactics). One that comes to mind offhand is a good-sized AOE NND, Ego Attack or AVLD Drain/Transfer w/ Hole in the Middle. With minimal tinkering, he probably could have done that at good power along with most or all of the Damage Reduction and either taken out or at least stunned most of the opponents, stood up to a counter-attack by fewer opponents, then followed up next phase with the big KA or some other power to finish off those still on their feet from the first one.

 

Fighting teams requires team strategy, and "Supremely Overconfident" doesn't equate to "Fights Below Potential." His Overconfidence may cause him to leave a few vulnerable spots to his defenses, but some people can be Overconfident for fairly good reason.

Cosmic Power Pools don't necessarily mean open license to build cheese power constructions.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Add 12 SPD into the equation vs. 10. Then you have a phase where you can do anything you want and most characters can't do squat about it. Combine it with a Dispel/Transform effect to take apart a bad guy's stuff and the fight can get turned right there.

 

A "Black Hole Punch" can usually end a fight immediately. The GM basically began running the fights with the understanding that one of the villains wasn't ever going to get to take an action.

 

I've had fights go badly. Segment 12, Dex 38, the speedster knocks someone into next Thursday. Segment 12, half the bad guys shoot at the speedster.

 

Also, even when playing a low-powered Speedster, I've often withheld my phase in order to leave open the possibility of aborting. High SPD means you can afford to do that every now and then and *still* get to take lots of actions.

 

Oh yeah, high Speed rules.

 

I'm glad to hear you're running GC. Overall, how are you and your players liking the setting? Would they/you be interesting in posting some of the PC stats? I'm always interested in seeing how others build characters at that point level.

 

They seem to be enjoying it. We've had lots of combat. We used to be part of a much larger group (we were gaming with Agent X and some more people), but there were just too many people in it. Nobody could get anything done, so the group split. I started running GC just because no one else had a game ready. I'll post characters, no problem, as I built a bunch of them for the players to choose from (and then some guys went ahead and built their own, anyway).

 

In any case, as you yourself admit, you didn't play Arcane up to full potential there. 75% DR and a big KA is rarely a bad thing, mind you, but there are lots of other things he could have done which are much smarter (and remember, 33 INT and 16- Tactics). One that comes to mind offhand is a good-sized AOE NND, Ego Attack or AVLD Drain/Transfer w/ Hole in the Middle. With minimal tinkering, he probably could have done that at good power along with most or all of the Damage Reduction and either taken out or at least stunned most of the opponents, stood up to a counter-attack by fewer opponents, then followed up next phase with the big KA or some other power to finish off those still on their feet from the first one.

 

Fighting teams requires team strategy, and "Supremely Overconfident" doesn't equate to "Fights Below Potential." His Overconfidence may cause him to leave a few vulnerable spots to his defenses, but some people can be Overconfident for fairly good reason.

 

I wasn't super-cheesy, but I figured the 75% reduction and 10D6 RKAs would easily be enough for him to whoop people good. Yeah, I could have cheesed out some nasty attacks, but he only got to shoot once before they clobbered him. I really wasn't expecting him to get hit with 50+ dice on segment 12 (and thus, he wasn't expecting it either). On occasion, players just hit far more viciously than you ever expected.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

GALACTIC CHAMPIONS CHARACTERS

 

Okay, I wrote some of these guys out and handed them to the players. They got to choose the disads and skills (to personalize what they wanted to play). I barely even picked names for these bozos. They're a bastardization of 4th and 5th edition, since I refuse to leave behind my precious Heromaker.

 

 

This is Quantum (whose name has been changed by the player--to what, I can't remember). He's the Superboy/Wildfire type flying omni-brick. His origin: he was studying an energy being near a star, when something went wrong and he became fused with it.

 

20/90 STR 10

23/26 DEX 39

20/45 CON 20

15/25 BODY 10

23 INT 13

23 EGO 26

25 PRE 15

18 COM 4

15/55 PD 11

15/55 ED 11

5/7 SPD 17

8/27 REC 0

40/90 END 0

35/93 STUN 0

Characteristics Cost: 176

 

453 PKG 44

(40) 50/50 Damage Resistance,permeable to specific radiation

(-1/4)

(8) 10 Power Defense,permeable to specific radiation(-1/4)

(5) 5 Lack Of Weakness

(5) 10 Mental Defense

(10) 10 Flash Defense,Sight Group

(10) 10 Flash Defense,Hearing Group

(10) 10 Flash Defense,Unusual Sense Group

(20) 10" KB Resist

(5) +0 Detect,"energy, physical objects",make into sense

(20) N-Ray Vision

(20) Targeting Sense,Detect

(27) +10 Telescopic Sense,Unusual Sense Group,[Megascale 1" =

1000km, scaleable(+1 1/4),Costs END(-1/2)

(70) +70 STR 7

(9) +3 DEX

(50) +25 CON

(20) +10 BODY

(21) 55 PD,permeable to specific radiation(-1/4)

(28) 55 ED,permeable to specific radiation(-1/4)

(17) +1.7 SPD

(75) 15D6 EB 7

(8) 5D6 EB,x5 Increased End Cost(-2) 10

(5) 5D6 EB,x10 Increased End Cost(-4),Extra Time(-1/2) 20

(30) LS: Full

(-10) x2 Stun from specific radiation

(-10) x2 effect from specific radiation

(-40) 2D6 Drain all powers per phase from specific radiation

 

80 MP (80)

8u 40" Flight 8

7u 15" Flight,Megascale 1" = 10000 km, scaleable(+1 1/2) 7

8u 16" Tunneling 3

3u 45" Superleap,x4 Non-Combat 14

5u 40" Swimming,x8 Non-Combat 8

 

10 2 Levels: OCV,related group

30 skills

 

Powers Cost: 604

Total Cost: 780

 

Base Points: 100

 

Disadvantages Total: 0

Experience Spent: 0

Total Points: 100

 

 

This is Paragon, a player-created PC. His mom was struck by an energy beam fired out by a dying race, which altered the DNA of her unborn son and empowered him with the abilities of the Talorian race. After a bit, the player got sick of Paragon, and wanted to play Kid Atomic (listed after this).

 

45/95 STR 35

30 DEX 60

35 CON 50

15 BODY 10

20 INT 10

20 EGO 20

20 PRE 10

20 COM 5

20/30 PD 11

30 ED 23

6 SPD 20

16/26 REC 0

70 END 0

61/86 STUN 5

Characteristics Cost: 259

 

100 VPP (40),can change powers as 0 phase,no skill roll required

 

22 EC (22)

28a) 95 STR 5

23b) 250/20 End Reserve

25c) 10/15 Armor,x1 Hardened(+1/4)

78d) 16D6 EB,1/2 END(+1/4) 5

48e) 35" Flight 7

22f) 10/15 Force Field,0 END(+1/2),x1 Hardened(+1/4) 0

 

10 4D6 EB,Only versus supernatural evil(-1) 2

25 +10 Detect,make into sense,Desc: Detect Talorians

5 Range,Detect

30 Life Support,doesn't breathe,doesn't eat/sleep/excrete,safe

in vacuum/pressure,safe in radiation,safe in heat/cold,

immune to disease,immune to aging

16 20 Mental Defense

5 5 Lack Of Weakness

 

3 Scientist

5 SC: Chemistry 16-,(INT based)

5 KS: Culture of Talorians 15-,(INT based)

9 SC: Interdimensional Physics 20-,(INT based)

5 SC: Inorganic Chemistry 16-,(INT based)

5 SC: Organic Chemistry 16-,(INT based)

3 Acrobatics 15-

3 Breakfall 15-

0 Lang: Terran,native

0 Lang: Talorian,native

16 2 Levels,all combat

9 6 Rng Levels: with energy blast

 

Powers Cost: 500

Total Cost: 759

 

Base Points: 550

5 Distinctive,"Talorian mark of heritage",easily concealable,

minor

5 Distinctive,"18",easily concealable,minor

15 Hunted,"The Dark Talorian",more powerful,harsh,appear 8-

15 Hunted,"Minions of the Dark Talorians",as powerful,harsh,

appear 11-

20 Hunted,"Sword of Ackal",more powerful,non-combat influence,

harsh,appear 8-

10 Hunted,"The Slug",as powerful,harsh,appear 8-

10 Psych Lim,"Seeks other Talorians",uncommon,strong

20 Psych Lim,"Heroic",common,total

10 Psych Lim,"Code versus killing",common,moderate

20 Psych Lim,"Curiosity",common,total

15 Physical Lim,"Alien Physiology",all the time,slightly

10 Public ID,"Zorn Zelkin"

5 Rep,"Super Hero",occur 8-

20 Vuln,"Drains and Transfers",common,x2 effect

20 Weirdness Magnet

 

Disadvantages Total: 200

Experience Spent: 8

Total Points: 758

 

 

This is Kid Atomic. He's a 20th Century hero (i.e., someone the player has played before) who accidentally gave himself powers. Then he accidentally blew himself up. Fortunately (sort of), he had a clone body ready just in case. Unfortunately, it didn't wake up for 1000 years, growing in power the whole time. He probably needs to be toned down a bit (I might drop the Str down to 110 or so), but it was that particular player's last game with us for a while, so he got to play the uber-character.

 

10/125 STR 0

26 DEX 48

40 CON 60

20 BODY 20

28 INT 18

18 EGO 16

18 PRE 8

20 COM 5

5/28 PD 3

16/28 ED 8

6 SPD 24

10/21 REC 0

80 END 0

62/90 STUN 17

Characteristics Cost: 227

 

58 EC (58)

41a) 12 LVLS Density Increase (stats already included),Always On

(-1/2),0 END Persistent(+1) 0

62b) 32/32 Armor,x1 Hardened(+1/4)

87c) 125 STR,0 END(+1/2) 0

61d) 40" Flight,x16 Non-Combat,1/2 END(+1/4) 5

50e) 16D6 EB,"Atomic Vision",No Knockback(-1/4),0 END(+1/2) 0

13 N-Ray Vision,Linked(-1/2),"to Atomic Vision"

9 x1000 Micro Vision

30 Life Support,doesn't breathe,doesn't eat/sleep/excrete,safe

in vacuum/pressure,safe in radiation,safe in heat/cold,

immune to disease,immune to aging

40 3 LVLS Shrinking(0.25m,200g,+6 DCV,+9 KB),Always On(-1/2),0

END Persistent(+1) 0

30 50% Damage Reduction (PD),resistant

30 50% Damage Reduction (ED),resistant

5 5 Power Defense

 

3 Scientist

3 Deduction 15-

3 Inventor 15-

3 Computer Programming 15-

2 SC: Bacteriology 15-,(INT based)

2 SC: Biochemistry 15-,(INT based)

3 SC: Biology 16-,(INT based)

2 SC: Biophysics 15-,(INT based)

2 SC: Electrical Engineering 15-,(INT based)

3 SC: Electrical Engineering 16-,(INT based)

2 SC: Mechanical Engineering 15-,(INT based)

3 SC: Metahuman Biology 16-,(INT based)

2 SC: Psychology 15-,(INT based)

10 1 Levels,all skills

 

Powers Cost: 531

Total Cost: 758

 

Base Points: 550

10 Psych Lim,"Code vs. Killing",common,moderate

20 Psych Lim,"Curiosity",common,total

20 Psych Lim,"Protective of Innocents",common,total

20 Vuln,"Drains and Transfers",common,x2 effect

15 Distinctive,".25m tall",not concealable,minor

20 Distinctive,"Giant Energy Signature",not concealable,major

5 Rivalry,"Other scientists",professional

10 Rep,"Young scientists",occur 11-

10 Public ID,"Jonathan Slayton"

10 Physical Lim,"Really small",frequently,slightly

20 Weirdness Magnet

20 Hunted,"The Sword of Ackal",more powerful,non-combat

influence,harsh,appear 8-

20 Hunted,"Thorgon Empire",more powerful,non-combat influence,

harsh,appear 8-

 

Disadvantages Total: 200

Experience Spent: 8

Total Points: 758

 

 

This is another guy without a real name yet. He's got a description halfway through his writeup. He's the Timber Wolf of the group.

 

15/75 STR 5

15/35 DEX 15

15/45 CON 10

10/25 BODY 0

18 INT 8

18 EGO 16

20/40 PRE 10

18 COM 4

4/20 PD 1

4/20 ED 1

5/8 SPD 5

6/24 REC 0

30/90 END 0

26/86 STUN 0

Characteristics Cost: 75

 

11 PKG,"race abilities"

(3) Life Support,immune to disease

(3) Ultra Hearing

(5) UV Vision

 

400 PKG,"genetically modified powers" 18

(60) +60 STR 6

(60) +20 DEX

(60) +30 CON

(30) +15 BODY

(30) +3.0 SPD

(30) 10/10 Armor

(4) +4 PD

(10) +10 ED

(15) +5 Enhanced PER,with all senses

(20) Targeting Sense,Hearing

(5) IR Vision

(5) 20" Superleap 8

(28) 20" Running 4

(10) 12 OCV Missile Deflection,deflect arrows

(10) 10 Power Defense

(10) 1 BODY Regen

(13) +20 PRE,pheremone-based(-1/2)

 

5 9 Mental Defense

16 2 Levels,all combat

10 2D6 Luck

 

3 Acrobatics 16-

3 Animal Handler 11-

3 Breakfall 16-

3 Contortionist 16-

3 Mimicry 11-

3 Persuasion 17-

3 Security Systems 13-

3 Seduction 17-

3 Shadowing 11-

3 Stealth 16-

3 Systems Operation 13-

3 Tactics 13-

3 Tracking 13-

26 26 more points of skills

 

118 PKG,"Natural combat ability"

(21) 10/10 Armor,combat luck(-3/4),x1 Hardened(+1/4)

(9) 25% Damage Reduction (PD),resistant,combat luck(-3/4)

(9) 25% Damage Reduction (ED),resistant,combat luck(-3/4)

(30) 13- Find Weakness,any group of attacks,Desc: hand to hand

(10) Full Defense Maneuver

(4) Fast Strike

(3) Legsweep

(4) Martial Block

(4) Martial Dodge

(4) Martial Escape

(3) Martial Grab

(3) Martial Throw

(5) Off Strike

(5) Passing Strike

(4) Reversal

 

He is the son of a renegade Thorgon scientist. The scientist

was developing new theories of genetic research, and fled

Thorgon space for questioning a higher officer. He took a

human wife on a backwater planet, and tested his theories on

their unborn son. The wife died during childbirth (from

complications unrelated to the tests). The child was strong

and fast, but the change became noticable at puberty. The

Thorgons have placed a high priority on finding this

character and discovering the secrets. The scientist was

killed in a Thorgon attempt to capture him, and his lab was

destroyed.

 

Powers Cost: 625

Total Cost: 700

 

Base Points: 500

15 Hunted,"Thorgon Empire",more powerful,non-combat influence,

limited area,harsh,appear 8-

 

Disadvantages Total: 15

Experience Spent: 0

Total Points: 515

 

 

 

I've got a few more characters that the players can use (I told them that I didn't care if they wanted to switch between characters for different adventures--the idea being that the whole team usually didn't go on adventures together), but those haven't been played yet.

[OddHat]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

The thing is, even if you can construct insanely powerful characters using those tricks, can you construct any given character concept *well* ( that is, cleanly and accurately )??

 

I would say no. Even if you avoid outright illegal stuff like EC abuse, there are many concepts that simply can't be compressed without doing things that just don't make sense. Obviously, unless the concept inherently includes sweeping limitations like OIF or OIHID, you can't really tag that on. Reed-type characters, or any character with more than one distinct special effect, cannot be compressed well because frameworks are supposed to have a defined special effect. Batman-types are the worst, as skill lists are expensive, and the only way around the expense would be a skill VPP, for which it should be pretty clear how abusive it would be when applied unlimited.

 

"Cleanly and accurately" is a matter of opinion, but I do agree that it is a heck of a lot easier to build multitalented characters (Richards is a good example) on much higher point totals. Raw power is easier to do with legal (if potentially unbalancing) constructs, but an accurate (imo) early Reed would need that Skill Pool unless built on a minimum 450 points. On the other hand, I see few problems with someone trying a tribute FF on 350 points; you could do aproximations at a "good enough for now" level.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Cosmic Power Pools don't necessarily mean open license to build cheese power constructions.

 

What is cheesy about an AoE offensive power? That's the sort of things high-powered villains *do*. Have you never seen one of those fights where the heroes rush Doom or Magneto or Mordru or some telepathic villain and the bad-guy unleashes some huge blast that tosses the heroes all over the place, flattening most of them?

 

More importantly, that's the sort of thing a big VPP allows someone to do, especially when said VPP is not built with Limitations such as "no more than half points (or "x active points," or whatever) can be put into one power." Why have a big, No Skill Roll Required VPP if you're just going to draw small-scaled powers out of it?

 

We're not talking purchasing 412 identical followers with Megascale-area attacks here. That's cheese. If you don't allow high-powered master villains to do attacks that affect teams of heroes, you might as well replace them with tackling dummies.

[Gary]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

What is cheesy about an AoE offensive power? That's the sort of things high-powered villains *do*. Have you never seen one of those fights where the heroes rush Doom or Magneto or Mordru or some telepathic villain and the bad-guy unleashes some huge blast that tosses the heroes all over the place, flattening most of them?

 

More importantly, that's the sort of thing a big VPP allows someone to do, especially when said VPP is not built with Limitations such as "no more than half points (or "x active points, or whatever) can be put into one power." Why have a big, No Skill Roll Required VPP if you're just going to draw small-scaled powers out of it?

 

We're not talking purchasing 412 identical followers with Megascale-area attacks here. That's cheese. If you don't allow high-powered master villains to do attacks that affect teams of heroes, you might as well replace them with tackling dummies.

 

 

Well said. If you're going to allow a cosmic VPP in the first place, you should be prepared for the consequences.

[Niles]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

No. But Thor wasn't of "mythic proportions" when he started. He is now' date=' arguably.[/quote']

Early Thor wasn't really less powerful than modern Thor, if anything he was more powerful as back then he was always pulling out implausible new hammer tricks to decisively end fights.