Are there ever too many points?

[Warp9]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

9 EC (Daxamite Powers) (15),Gradually loses powers when away

from yellow sun(-1/4),Not in Red Sun system(-1/2)

You gave a (-1/2) for "Not in Red Sun system?"

 

If I were GMing that character would I would presonally roll all the above limitations into a single limitation:

 

(-1/4) powers subject to stellar objects which means that they don't work in a red sun system, and they fade if not close to a yellow star.

[Gary]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

You gave a (-1/2) for "Not in Red Sun system?"

 

If I were GMing that character would I would presonally roll all the above limitations into a single limitation:

 

(-1/4) powers subject to stellar objects which means that they don't work in a red sun system, and they fade if not close to a yellow star.

 

 

That concerns you more than the Stats and 0 End Powers in ECs?

 

Seriously, if every character in his campaign is built that way, I don't see a problem. The characters will be relatively balanced compared to each other. It's only if there's a mix of characters built straight and characters built this way that there would be a problem. Or if any of these characters get brought into some other campaign.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

You gave a (-1/2) for "Not in Red Sun system?"

 

If I were GMing that character would I would presonally roll all the above limitations into a single limitation:

 

(-1/4) powers subject to stellar objects which means that they don't work in a red sun system, and they fade if not close to a yellow star.

 

Well, I didn't run that game. Originally, Con-El had the following limitations:

Not in Red Sun (-1/4)

Not vs Magic (-1/4)

Not when exposed to lead (-1/2)

 

The GM brought in a kryptonian NPC near the end of the game, and Rob, Con-El's player, happened to get a glance at the guy's character sheet. That's when he saw Not in Red Sun for -1/2 and Fades when away from yellow sun for -1/4. He immediately rewrote his character, and the GM let it slide.

[Warp9]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Allot has been said about simulating character concepts on too few points' date=' but has anyone ever run into having too many points for a certain concept? I seem to have run across that with some of the character concepts for Seeds of Change. The players have basically run out of places to spend their points in a couple of places without altering their concepts. Not complaining about it, just an odd phenomena I haven't really run into before.[/quote']

IMO your problem is based on having a 750 point game with an 80 active point maximum.

 

If the character's are supposed to be very high powered you might keep in mind that an AH-64 Apache's 30mm gun (listed in the vehicle section of the main rule book) is a 4.5 d6 RKA, with AP (+1/2), Autofire[10] (+1), with 1200 charges(+1) for a total of 245 active points. 245 active points is far beyond the power level of the PCs in your game. Of course, if you want the PCs to be totally dwarfed by the power of modern military weapons, then that is your choice.

[Warp9]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Well, I didn't run that game. Originally, Con-El had the following limitations:

Not in Red Sun (-1/4)

Not vs Magic (-1/4)

Not when exposed to lead (-1/2)

 

The GM brought in a kryptonian NPC near the end of the game, and Rob, Con-El's player, happened to get a glance at the guy's character sheet. That's when he saw Not in Red Sun for -1/2 and Fades when away from yellow sun for -1/4. He immediately rewrote his character, and the GM let it slide.

Sorry. I shouldn't have assumed that it was your game.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

IMO your problem is based on having a 750 point game with an 80 active point maximum.

 

If the character's are supposed to be very high powered you might keep in mind that an AH-64 Apache's 30mm gun (listed in the vehicle section of the main rule book) is a 4.5 d6 RKA, with AP (+1/2), Autofire[10] (+1), with 1200 charges(+1) for a total of 245 active points. 245 active points is far beyond the power level of the PCs in your game. Of course, if you want the PCs to be totally dwarfed by the power of modern military weapons, then that is your choice.

 

I'd just like to comment that I disagree with just about all of the official Hero writeups for military weapons. They're waaay overpowered.

 

Of course, my 750 point supers have far bigger attacks than 80 active points.

[Eosin]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Ahh... Gridiron.

 

Rob still talks about that character all the time.

 

But does he tell you about how Gridiron got incarcerated by Mephestophiles in hell?

 

Audie: All right you guys get to travel into hell to rescue Gridiron.

The Group:

Audie: Come on guys.

The Group: Let's take a vote....make it secret ballot.

Audie: Only one person wants to go rescue Gridiron? Quit joking guys.

The Group: Well, he does sort of desereve it.

 

The game rarely needed a GM, we would bicker and brawl among ourselves all night. I even bought a skill to Play Mortal combat so that I could beat Bryan at Mortal Combat...Then had Forge make the machine resistant to EM and I still lost.

[Kristopher]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

I'd just like to comment that I disagree with just about all of the official Hero writeups for military weapons. They're waaay overpowered.

 

Of course, my 750 point supers have far bigger attacks than 80 active points.

 

Given what even a .50 BMG round can do to a target, I'd say they're not far off, or even a bit weak.

 

EDIT: And actually, yes, I do want most supers to have something to fear from direct military action.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

IMO your problem is based on having a 750 point game with an 80 active point maximum.

 

If the character's are supposed to be very high powered you might keep in mind that an AH-64 Apache's 30mm gun (listed in the vehicle section of the main rule book) is a 4.5 d6 RKA, with AP (+1/2), Autofire[10] (+1), with 1200 charges(+1) for a total of 245 active points. 245 active points is far beyond the power level of the PCs in your game. Of course, if you want the PCs to be totally dwarfed by the power of modern military weapons, then that is your choice.

 

To be fair, the charges probably shouldn't be counted against active point limit, and on a Real Weapon, autofire probably isn't worth as much as it is listed.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Given what even a .50 BMG round can do to a target' date=' I'd say they're not far off, or even a bit weak.[/quote']

 

Yeah, its the super powers that typically are underpowered.

 

Granted, I do favor usage of limits on Real Weapons vs non-real defense, so that the above chaingun would do precisely dick to, say, a brick with 30/30 hardened resistant defense.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Given what even a .50 BMG round can do to a target' date=' I'd say they're not far off, or even a bit weak.[/quote']

 

What is the writeup for that, about 3D6 RKA?

 

Large Boulder: 20 Body, 5 Def (source: the Ultimate Brick, pg. 145).

So 3 or 4 shots from that gun will destroy a 6' across boulder?

 

Human-sized metal statue: 9 Body, 5 Def (pg. 145)

2 shots?

 

Train: 20 Def, 5 Body (pg. 146)

3 or 4 shots will disable a train?

 

Manhole cover: 5 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

3 shots?

 

I-beam: 8 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

Ah, this'll take 4 shots to break the I-beam.

 

See, humans in Champions get 10 Body because it's a heroic game, and you're not supposed to die horribly. Military weapons need to be balanced against real world objects, not PCs.

[Kristopher]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Yeah, its the super powers that typically are underpowered.

 

Granted, I do favor usage of limits on Real Weapons vs non-real defense, so that the above chaingun would do precisely dick to, say, a brick with 30/30 hardened resistant defense.

 

I favor absolutely no special limits on what "real weapons" do to superhumans. Besides, 30/30 Hardened would shrug off the BODY done by a 4.5d6 AP RKA anyway. The problem there isn't the weapon or the super, it's the wonky STUN lotto on KAs. The average STUN through would be about 10 per hit -- but the max would be 105 per hit. Ouch.

 

Of course, against an evading superhuman, hitting in the first place will often be the real challenge (unless you have multiple helicopters spraying fire at once).

[Kristopher]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

What is the writeup for that, about 3D6 RKA?

 

Large Boulder: 20 Body, 5 Def (source: the Ultimate Brick, pg. 145).

So 3 or 4 shots from that gun will destroy a 6' across boulder?

 

Human-sized metal statue: 9 Body, 5 Def (pg. 145)

2 shots?

 

Train: 20 Def, 5 Body (pg. 146)

3 or 4 shots will disable a train?

 

Manhole cover: 5 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

3 shots?

 

I-beam: 8 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

Ah, this'll take 4 shots to break the I-beam.

 

See, humans in Champions get 10 Body because it's a heroic game, and you're not supposed to die horribly. Military weapons need to be balanced against real world objects, not PCs.

 

3d6 RKA = 10.5 BODY rolled on average.

 

That won't hurt the train, unless you flipped the numbers. But really, all it should take to give a train serious problems is to put a few rounds through the boiler, or the fuel tank.

 

A .50 BMG jacketed round will often punch through metal as thick as a manhole cover

 

4 shots might crack a boulder, depending.

 

Is an object reduced to dust when it loses all its BODY, or just reduced to uselessness?

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Oops. I did flip the numbers on the train. Still, I don't think the bullets would have that effect in the real world. Bullets bounce off of big rocks and heavy metal objects.

[Gary]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Oops. I did flip the numbers on the train. Still' date=' I don't think the bullets would have that effect in the real world. Bullets bounce off of big rocks and heavy metal objects.[/quote']

 

 

Actually, a burst from a .50 cal would probably wreck a boulder or manhole cover. It is primarily an anti-vehicle weapon, quite capable of taking out armored personnel carriers or armored cars.

[nexus]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Not taking sides, but isn't that sort of things (Bullets vs rocks, etc) what the Real Weapon Limitation is supposed to reflect?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

What is the writeup for that, about 3D6 RKA?

 

Large Boulder: 20 Body, 5 Def (source: the Ultimate Brick, pg. 145).

So 3 or 4 shots from that gun will destroy a 6' across boulder?

 

Human-sized metal statue: 9 Body, 5 Def (pg. 145)

2 shots?

 

Train: 20 Def, 5 Body (pg. 146)

3 or 4 shots will disable a train?

 

Manhole cover: 5 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

3 shots?

 

I-beam: 8 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

Ah, this'll take 4 shots to break the I-beam.

 

See, humans in Champions get 10 Body because it's a heroic game, and you're not supposed to die horribly. Military weapons need to be balanced against real world objects, not PCs.

 

Definitely agreed. And if an unarmored human took a hit from even "just" a .50 calibre, they'd *still* be either dead ( head/vitals hit ), or on the ground bleeding to death ( anywhere else ).

[Metaphysician]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

I favor absolutely no special limits on what "real weapons" do to superhumans. Besides, 30/30 Hardened would shrug off the BODY done by a 4.5d6 AP RKA anyway. The problem there isn't the weapon or the super, it's the wonky STUN lotto on KAs. The average STUN through would be about 10 per hit -- but the max would be 105 per hit. Ouch.

 

Of course, against an evading superhuman, hitting in the first place will often be the real challenge (unless you have multiple helicopters spraying fire at once).

 

Agreed, more or less. Absent the stun lottery, no such system would be needed.

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

What is cheesy about an AoE offensive power? That's the sort of things high-powered villains *do*. Have you never seen one of those fights where the heroes rush Doom or Magneto or Mordru or some telepathic villain and the bad-guy unleashes some huge blast that tosses the heroes all over the place, flattening most of them?

 

More importantly, that's the sort of thing a big VPP allows someone to do, especially when said VPP is not built with Limitations such as "no more than half points (or "x active points," or whatever) can be put into one power." Why have a big, No Skill Roll Required VPP if you're just going to draw small-scaled powers out of it?

 

We're not talking purchasing 412 identical followers with Megascale-area attacks here. That's cheese. If you don't allow high-powered master villains to do attacks that affect teams of heroes, you might as well replace them with tackling dummies.

Depends on the Area of Effect Power. I'm thinking a lot of AoE NNDs or AVLDs would be pretty cheesy.

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Early Thor wasn't realy less powerfull than modern Thor' date=' if anything he was more powerfull as back then he was always pulling out implausible new hammer tricks to decisivly end fights.[/quote'] Yep, I've got an old Thor story where he dragged a HUGE starship, that was moving at FTL speeds when he grabbed it, back toward Earth, apparently without much effort.

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Given what even a .50 BMG round can do to a target, I'd say they're not far off, or even a bit weak.

 

EDIT: And actually, yes, I do want most supers to have something to fear from direct military action.

Then you're not very interested in character dynamics that exist in a whole lot of comic books.

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

What is the writeup for that, about 3D6 RKA?

 

Large Boulder: 20 Body, 5 Def (source: the Ultimate Brick, pg. 145).

So 3 or 4 shots from that gun will destroy a 6' across boulder?

 

Human-sized metal statue: 9 Body, 5 Def (pg. 145)

2 shots?

 

Train: 20 Def, 5 Body (pg. 146)

3 or 4 shots will disable a train?

 

Manhole cover: 5 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

3 shots?

 

I-beam: 8 Body, 9 Def (pg. 146)

Ah, this'll take 4 shots to break the I-beam.

 

See, humans in Champions get 10 Body because it's a heroic game, and you're not supposed to die horribly. Military weapons need to be balanced against real world objects, not PCs.

Well said.

[Agent X]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Not taking sides' date=' but isn't that sort of things (Bullets vs rocks, etc) what the Real Weapon Limitation is supposed to reflect?[/quote']That's cheese.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Depends on the Area of Effect Power. I'm thinking a lot of AoE NNDs or AVLDs would be pretty cheesy.

 

Well, an AVLD KA, Does Body vs. Lack of Weakness or an NND EB with the defense being defined as "guys named Nigel or Igor" would no doubt be cheesy, but I don't see why most NNDs or AVLDs would be the least bit cheesy in that setting, especially given the power levels of the characters involved. In the GALACTIC CHAMPIONS setting, given that many more characters will have some degree of exotic defenses, it is completely appropriate (and even mentioned in the supplement) to make AVLDs and NNDs vs. unusual defenses (resistant Power Defense or LS: Immortality) or limited conditions (luck or electrical powers) rather than vs. common stuff like standard Mental or Power Defense or Life Support: Self-Contained Breathing.

[Kristopher]

Re: Are there ever too many points?

 

Then you're not very interested in character dynamics that exist in a whole lot of comic books.

 

You don't say.

 

I tend to lose interest in a character if he can shrug off antitank weapons like spitwads and weather nuclear explosions. Whatever.