Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

[RPJesus]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

I just wanted to throw in this little tidbit.

 

We [as a society] know quite a bit about the universe. However, I think it would be a mistake to demand that all technology in your campaign have some kind of analogous relationship with current science and understanding.

 

600 years ago, everyone thought they knew quite a bit about the universe too...and they also thought the world was flat.

YESS!! Besides, if authentic technology is so important then make a couple charts for tech level modifiers(price, availabiltiy, size, increments of increase and modifiers to put the ship together). If you're a tech level 7 but can get ahold of something tech level 8 then the price is modified to show how cutting edge and expensive it is to make the product. There should also be a tech level size modifier, because the higher in tech you go the smaller the items become. You would then be simulating the progression through the ages and the key at this point would be not cradling it in stone fact and documented theory, but relative thought and the ability to suspend disbelief as a GM.

RPJ

[Ben Seeman]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

As to why there is no such system in Alien Wars and Terran Empire in specific' date=' you will have to ask the powers that be for the real answer, but I would suspect it would be along the lines of [i']"it would not have been an optimum allocation of our limited supplement writing time"[/i].

I had originally started on a section breaking down the systems of starships while working on Spacer's Toolkit, but it became apparent early on that it would not be included in the final book. I'll see if I can dig up what I wrote.

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

600 years ago, everyone thought they knew quite a bit about the universe too...and they also thought the world was flat.

 

But we still know a horse can only pull so much. That has not changed, and it won't change for chemical rockets either.

[MitchellS]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

Trying to put realistic numbers to a fictional idea seems like an exercise in futility to me. Your SH game might want matter/anti-matter engines that take up 100 hexes. I might be playing a Star Trek game where the engine is 1 hex in diameter and 3 hexes tall. The next guy might want to play in a game where the engine is the size of a palm. I don't believe SH can really give parameters on that because a genre book is supposed to be open-ended to accommodate everyone.

 

I agree within the official universe that some semblance of size should be included though. You need to know why a fighter cannot have a huge displacer drive or the like. But in the genre book I agree that it's best left out so that each person can decide for themselves.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

What about a book like The Ultimate Starship? Could be a nice companion to TUV

[RPJesus]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

But we still know a horse can only pull so much. That has not changed' date=' and it won't change for chemical rockets either.[/quote']

With all due respect to all of the people that have been on the boards much longer than I. A horse can only be a horse because we have laws saying we can't try to make it anything else except in the strictest of conditions. Let's take a walk and say that the laws about animal testing, cloning and gene splicing in general were far less strict. We could take some of that hybrid fruit that they are making in Dutch labs and feed starving people in south america unless my sources are wrong they grew a squash the size of a volvo(A squash is just a squash). Take the stem cell research that is currently being strangled into submission by the conservate majority. What kind of cures for how many life threatening diseases can be found in stem cells? We'll probably never know in our lifetime, but trust me..SOMEONE WILL!! As far as the possibility of continued strides in space travel we have possible true alternate energy sources today. Yeah today, I'm talking about zero point energies. With zero point energy I'm making reference to the theory that if a ship had a hull something akin to solar panels that gave it the ability to collect and convert the harmful energies of space it could use the continued barrage of harsh rays as a booster to another type of main drive. It's almost perfect in that it takes the idea that we don't have shields to keep human life save in the rigors of deep space and uses it to propel us as a society faster and deeper than we every could have dreamed. It also cures the fuel source prblem other than take offs and landings if applicable. This idea isn't science fiction or fact, it is one of the options that we all have if we choose to look outside the box. DRTemp I'm not trying to pick a fight or draw undue attention to myself, I just know we have more sources than we ever look for.

RPJ

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

A horse can only be a horse because we have laws saying we can't try to make it anything else except in the strictest of conditions. Let's take a walk and say that the laws about animal testing' date=' cloning and gene splicing in general were far less strict. [/quote']

 

No. It is more a matter of physics- the energy density of anything a horse can digest is only so high, and thus the things it can do are limited. Now, a carnivorous horse could be reasonably stronger for its weight, but it still wouldn't be strong enough to, for example, fly (because it is too heavy).

 

You will never see a horse or an elephant moving at sustainable speeds of 100 km/h. And that is our equivalent of a chemical rocket working for 30 days continously- we could improve current chemical rockets to a certain point, but ultimately, we reach the limits of physics. That is why "rubber science" is needed in SF, after all.

 

[...]

As far as the possibility of continued strides in space travel we have possible true alternate energy sources today. Yeah today, I'm talking about zero point energies. With zero point energy I'm making reference to the theory that if a ship had a hull something akin to solar panels that gave it the ability to collect and convert the harmful energies of space it could use the continued barrage of harsh rays as a booster to another type of main drive.

[...]

 

That idea is not a chemical rocket.

 

BTW, you run into energy density problems there. The amount of energy required to produce thrust in space is enormous, the density of "free energy" of that kind is not.

 

We actually know quite a bit about the universe- any thechnology that provides things that we cannot do today at least theoretically requires assuming new, today unknown pieces, such as reactionless thrusters, for example.

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

There are really two issues here. I want to agree with DrTemp. That such a design system is necessary to avoid a breakdown in believablity' date=' a rupture in that suspension of disbelief. And I want to put some thought into how that design system might work.[/quote']

 

When setting up a science fiction campaign, a GM needs to keep one foot based in real science to maintain believability but is eventually faces the need to bend or break the laws physics to make their campaign to work. The creators of most of the successful science fiction franchises such as Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Firefly, etc. bend or break the rules of physics at some point or another to make their universes work. The suspension of believability does not seem to stop us from watching these shows or finding inspiration in them.

 

 

But we still know a horse can only pull so much. That has not changed' date=' and it won't change for chemical rockets either.[/quote']

 

I would just like to point out that chemical rockets are modern technology and not really the stuff of science fiction (the operative word being fiction). I can't think of any successful science fiction franchises that use chemical and maybe there is a reason for this.

 

 

Trying to put realistic numbers to a fictional idea seems like an exercise in futility to me. Your SH game might want matter/anti-matter engines that take up 100 hexes. I might be playing a Star Trek game where the engine is 1 hex in diameter and 3 hexes tall. The next guy might want to play in a game where the engine is the size of a palm. I don't believe SH can really give parameters on that because a genre book is supposed to be open-ended to accommodate everyone.

 

.....or matter/anti-matter engines the size of a walnut (from one Trek episode)

 

I agree within the official universe that some semblance of size should be included though. You need to know why a fighter cannot have a huge displacer drive or the like. But in the genre book I agree that it's best left out so that each person can decide for themselves.

 

When setting up the tech level for any campaign, a little common sense goes a long way when defining the stats for vehicles or gear but in a multi-genre book such as Star Hero, a defined "Build System" would not work. The strength of Star Hero is its wide appeal. In games such as Traveler, which have a defined "Build System," they are a unique settings and do not translate well over into other genres. For example, when Star Wars was the "Big Thing." how many Traveler GMs tried to run a Star Wars campaign using the Traveler rules and Build System? Form the attempts I have seen, it did not work well! Using Star Hero, I can run any science fiction setting including Traveler. To me, the lack of a "Build System" seems to be a strength, not a weakness.

 

 

.

[RPJesus]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

You're a bad man, I like you! All life energies work at some level off of a basis of attraction and or repulsion which is what sends it spiraling around. (Bold statement) We are not always attracted or repulsed by things but these properties if identified can be enhanced or we could synthsize something to simulate the effect and magnify a response through attraction.

RPJ

[starblaze]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

No.

 

Alien Wars, for example, wants to be rather hard SF on the sublight propulsion system question. The efficiency of a chemical or fusion rocket is not subject to arbitrary decision by the worldbuilder, but to known physics. If one wants to do Hard SF, one needs actual numbers. (There is only so much energy to be gained from converting Deuterium to Helium, so that is the maximum one can get out of a fusion rocket. It simply cannot be more, whatever the tech level is. For higher acceleration and burn endurance than the best imaginable (antimatter rockets) can provide, one needs rubber science.

 

{Warning. Numberchrunching example follows. If you are not interested in such things, move on to the next curly brackets}

 

For example, there is _no_ chemical rocket with an acceleration in the range of 0.1 g or above that can burn for a month. That is due to the exhaust velocities inolved, which are a function of the energy provided by fuel and oxidant. The best available chemical rockets use almost all of the energy provided, which allows for an exhaust velocity of perhaps 4500 meters/second.

 

To compute how much reaction mass we need for a given ship for a one-seconds-burn, we can use the simple formula:

 

shipsmass * velocitychangepersecond= reactionmassconsumptionpersecond * exhaustvelocity

 

For said Centauri class battleship, that is

 

100 000 tons * 5 m/s = reactionmassconsumptionpersecond * 4500 m/s

 

So

reactionmassconsumptionpersecond = 500 000/4500 tons

 

which is close to a hundred tons. For one second. A month has a _lot_ of seconds. (And one cannot simply multiply since the reaction mass for the last seconds has to be accelerated all the way until it is used, increasing the ship's initial mass and requiring a logarithmic equation for the actual computation.)

 

Even if one assumes that the exhaust velocity of Alien Wars rockets is much higher (which is actually not possible for a chemical rocket, simply because there is not more energy in that kind of propulsion system), there is no way a 100 000 tons ship can be in that range with its propulsion data if it uses chemical rockets.

 

{End of numberchrunching example}

 

In addition to physics being somewhat of genre relevance in SF, there is still the point that even with completely arbitrary rubber science systems, the numbers provide background information for the setting. If the best available FTL drive requires one ton of mass per ton moved with it, it is useless, since it can't even transport its own power source, and certainly not any payload. If interstellar empire A can build ships that carry one ton per kilogram of FTL drive and empire B only 500 kg, then empire A will dominate empire B (either economically or outright militarily).

 

In Alien Wars, the only real advantage the Xenovores seem to have, propulsion-wise, is that their dreadoughts are able to enter atmospheres- human ships are just as durable and just as agile as their Xenovore counterparts, even though the setting assumes that "the Xenovores are technologically superior", of which we'd see nothing in a space battle, given the stats of the available ships.

 

Don't misunderstand me- in the reality of play, these things are probably rather minor, and can be easily corrected if necessary. I really love the result of the author's work, it is a great SF setting. But it certainly lacks a design system.

 

IIRC, Alien Wars stated that the Xenovores were not technologically superior neccessarily but that they were more experienced in intersteller war. The Xenovore war was the first intersteller war that Mankind had ever fought in.

[Basil]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

A couple of short notes regarding my long, math-filled post:

1) I refered to "the end velocity" for simplicity. In fact, what the formula uses in "delta-V", which is the total change in velocity. A rocket that accelerates to 10,000 m/s, spins around, slows to a stop, speeds back up going the way it came from, up to 10,000 m/s, the spins around a decelerates to a stop exactly where it started from has an "end velocity" of 0 m/s, but a delta-V of 40,0000 m/s. And it's 40,000 m/s you'd use in the formula.

 

2) from Alien Wars p.125, repeated in Terran Empire p.158:

"Trvel within Hyperspace depends on two things: first, a ship's normal propulsion (since the ship has to propel itself through Hyperspace);..." Thus, the whole matter of propellent mass fraction applies to FTL as well as STL.

 

Frankly, I don't think the writer thought things through at all.

[Basil]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

After reading this thread (as it is so far), I have to agree that a build system does not belong in Star Hero. Star Hero covers an entire genre, and a build system limits it too much. In fact, I think the percentages for systems given on page 192ff and elsewhere should not have been given, or given as a range, with suggestions as to when/where to use the high end, middle, and low end of the ranges.

 

However, for Alien Wars, Terran Empire, and the upcoming prequel Solar Hero, I think a build system is imperitive. This is, after all, a specific setting, and there should be a coherent design to things. IMO, that design should be told to the players in that setting. And when that setting is supposed to be "hard(-ish) SF," it's even more necessary.

 

This is especially important so that when (not if) the players want their characters to build their own starship (or radically refit one), the GM isn't forced to say "No, you can only have what's on this list".

 

It might seem you can just tell the poor GM "figure out the points, and make them pay those &/or pay X credits/solars/BUCS/whatever." But that's not good enough, it seems to me.

 

You just know someone's going to go "How much cargo space is there?" or "Can we fit a Mark XXII wizzbang in where the old Mark III was? If not, can we tear down a wall and canniblize some space from the cargo bay/staterooms/galley/etc.?"

 

I would just like to point out that chemical rockets are modern technology and not really the stuff of science fiction (the operative word being fiction).

However, Alien Wars and specifically states that rockets (chemical, nuclear) are the only STL drives used. So how they must work is important to understand.

 

I had originally started on a section breaking down the systems of starships while working on Spacer's Toolkit' date=' but it became apparent early on that it would not be included in the final book. I'll see if I can dig up what I wrote.[/quote']

That sounds very interesting! Would you please hunt it up?

 

I just wanted to throw in this little tidbit.

 

We [as a society] know quite a bit about the universe. However, I think it would be a mistake to demand that all technology in your campaign have some kind of analogous relationship with current science and understanding.

True. However, two points:

1) To suggest that there be some sort of "how do you build a starship" system exist and be told to the players, in a specific setting, is much different from saying that setting, or the entire genre book hew to physics as we know it.

2) If a RPG book says that rockets are the STL existant, then that book ought to be written with some understanding of, and respect for, the physics of rockets.

 

600 years ago' date=' everyone thought they knew quite a bit about the universe too...and they also thought the world was flat.[/quote']

More than 2000 years ago the Greeks proved the Earth is round. That knowledge was never lost. There may, 600 years ago, been a substantial number of people who were unaware of that knowledge, but those who paid any heed to then-current knowledge knew better.

After all, the sailors on Columbus's ships did not fear they would "fall off the edge of the world". They, common sailors, knew the world was round. They feared, correctly, that the ships they were on -- indeed, even the best ships then available -- could not survive a voyage of the length it would take to reach "Cathay". If they hadn't run into something, they would have starved, or been forced to turn back.

 

RPJesus, "zero point energy" is the idea, from quantum mechanics, that matter/energy is being constantly created and destroyed, on a time scale of attoseconds, from "empty space"; this is mostly in the form of matter-antimatter pairs, though the hypothesis requires "anti-energy" to be formed, to cancel out the energy interacting matter-antimatter pairs would produce. Note, that at this time scale, it does not effect the universe, not even on the atomic level. However, goes the speculation, if there were some way to separate out the antimatter, and keep it, you could interact it with regular matter at macroscopic time-scales. Even more theoretically, if you could neutralize the "anti-energy", the energy would be there for your use. However, no-one can even speculate on how to do either, so the whole idea is pretty much useless.

 

 

Except for Steven Hawkings using it to theorize radiating black holes.

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

When setting up a science fiction campaign, a GM needs to keep one foot based in real science to maintain believability but is eventually faces the need to bend or break the laws physics to make their campaign to work. The creators of most of the successful science fiction franchises such as Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Firefly, etc. bend or break the rules of physics at some point or another to make their universes work. The suspension of believability does not seem to stop us from watching these shows or finding inspiration in them.

 

But that's TV, and thus a different medium. RPG as a medium of storytelling is a different thing and has different requirements, since it has not the all-powerful author to make the epsisode work. Players of an RPG need some base for their imagination and planning. If they have to solve the problem of aquiring, for example, enough propellant for their spaceship to reach starbase X, they need some background about "what" and "how much" of it. With said Centauri, they'd run into a problem here... a problem that could blow up the entire gaming session if the group cares for such details (and they play hard military SF, so they probably do).

 

In SF, you have lots of equipment, but the story should be the story of the characters. In order to give them something to act, you have to give them a coordinate system to act within.

 

Besides, there are not that many attempts to make a hard sf TV show, so we have no choice but live with those that are there, even while being annoyed by a lot of details. The new Battlestar Galactica series seems to be the first attempt on hard SF TV. And it is really an order of magnitude better than the others...

 

When setting up the tech level for any campaign, a little common sense goes a long way when defining the stats for vehicles or gear but in a multi-genre book such as Star Hero, a defined "Build System" would not work. The strength of Star Hero is its wide appeal. In games such as Traveler, which have a defined "Build System," they are a unique settings and do not translate well over into other genres. [...]

 

Actually, the known-science-parts of the Traveller constructon systems (hull masses, for example) are quite universal. The differences between settings lies in the rubber science parts.

 

As long as the setting in question is well-thought through, of course. There is lots of bad SF out there, where the technological and super-scientific assumptions don't make sense within themselves at all.

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

2) from Alien Wars p.125, repeated in Terran Empire p.158:

"Trvel within Hyperspace depends on two things: first, a ship's normal propulsion (since the ship has to propel itself through Hyperspace);..." Thus, the whole matter of propellent mass fraction applies to FTL as well as STL.

 

Frankly, I don't think the writer thought things through at all.

 

Yes, I noticed that too. I decided for myself that the rubber science explanation of hyperspace and the Hyperdrive are wrong, and the stats for the hyperdrives given are correct- both is not possible. OTOH, since the stats for the ships giving would need a rework in the light of what has been shown, maybe one could correct this too in the 2010 "revised edition" of Alien Wars...

I believe for actually mapping the described hyperspace physics one would have to buy the Hyperdrive not as Teleportation, but as normal movement plus Megascale and ignore "not for FTL" rule on that. The STL drive would have to be another one- possibly an antimatter drive of some kind, or maybe a "particle accelerator neutrino drive" (which would have the convenience of not being a _very_ potent weapon, since neutrinos are harmelss particles).

 

Now that's maybe actually an idea: Building a particle acclerator of high output, powering it with a fusion reactor, and using it as a drive. Based on current technology, it would be very low-thrust, of course, but advanced versions might become better at that too. The impulse would be near light speed. Of course, one would have to miniaturize particle accelerator technology, but that is not completely unthinkable...

 

Edit: Oops. I just reinvented the ion drive. Sorry

[Nyrath]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

What about a book like The Ultimate Starship? Could be a nice companion to TUV

Unfortunately, any sourcebook capable of covering just the types of starships seen in SF TV shows (let alone types in novels) would be too huge. I would be like attempting to write "The Ultimate Comic-book Hero".

 

The best you could do is write some general rules that the game master could use to custom build characters. Which is what they did, it's called the Hero RPG. And instead of the Ultimate Starship they added the FTL flight power to the rules to custom build vehicles.

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

And instead of the Ultimate Starship they added the FTL flight power to the rules to custom build vehicles.

 

But it doesn't do that. You cannot "build" a starship with Hero System. You can only *describe* its abilities in game terms and assign a point cost (which is usually rather useless for a spaceship in a campaign where these are regularily bought and sold).

[RPJesus]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

RPJesus, "zero point energy" is the idea, from quantum mechanics, that matter/energy is being constantly created and destroyed, on a time scale of attoseconds, from "empty space"; this is mostly in the form of matter-antimatter pairs, though the hypothesis requires "anti-energy" to be formed, to cancel out the energy interacting matter-antimatter pairs would produce. Note, that at this time scale, it does not effect the universe, not even on the atomic level. However, goes the speculation, if there were some way to separate out the antimatter, and keep it, you could interact it with regular matter at macroscopic time-scales. Even more theoretically, if you could neutralize the "anti-energy", the energy would be there for your use. However, no-one can even speculate on how to do either, so the whole idea is pretty much useless.

 

 

Except for Steven Hawkings using it to theorize radiating black holes.

Very true Basil, I need to check my sources before I ramble off the alternatives. I know that no person currently alive has the ability to consume this theory whole and spit out something palpable or more to the point functional. This person much like the "rubber science" we are speaking of doesn't exist....yet! I digress.

RPJ

[Basil]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

Yes' date=' I noticed that too. I decided for myself that the rubber science explanation of hyperspace and the Hyperdrive are wrong, and the stats for the hyperdrives given are correct- both is not possible. [/quote']

Yeah, I noticed that.

 

I believe for actually mapping the described hyperspace physics one would have to buy the Hyperdrive not as Teleportation' date=' but as normal movement plus Megascale and ignore "not for FTL" rule on that.[/quote']

I disagree. The fact that a ship in Hyperspace is undetectable, but that two (or more) ships in Hyperspace can interact, combined with better Hyperdrives letting one stay in Hyperspace longer leads me to think that the Power that best models this is Extra-Dimensional Movement. It has to be linked to FTL with the -0 Lim "Only Relative To Real Space". That would cover the text's description, and I can't see any other way to. Certainly the power write-up given on Terran Empire p.160 (and Alein Wars p.126-127) doesn't come close.

 

The STL drive would have to be another one- possibly an antimatter drive of some kind, or maybe a "particle accelerator neutrino drive" (which would have the convenience of not being a _very_ potent weapon, since neutrinos are harmelss particles).

 

Now that's maybe actually an idea: Building a particle acclerator of high output, powering it with a fusion reactor, and using it as a drive. Based on current technology, it would be very low-thrust, of course, but advanced versions might become better at that too. The impulse would be near light speed. Of course, one would have to miniaturize particle accelerator technology, but that is not completely unthinkable...

 

Edit: Oops. I just reinvented the ion drive. Sorry

LOL. At least you didn't reinvent the wheel.

 

Actually, I think Solar Hero ought to cover (at least in general terms) all the known and theorized STL drives: rockets (chemical, electric/ion, nuclear [constant & pulsed], antimatter), light sails, ramjets (Bussard, catalytic, RAIR), beamed energy, electormagnetic "rails", pellet stream, etc.

 

Hey, Steve L.! I recommend The Starflight Handbook: A Pioneer's Guide to Interstellar Travel by Eugene Mallove and Grefory Matloff. Has solid info, clearly presented. Although it's aimed at interstellar flight, the info is highly usefull for interplanetary flight. Good stuff for Solar Hero.

 

Oh, and it also goes into speculation about FTL!

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

I disagree. The fact that a ship in Hyperspace is undetectable, but that two (or more) ships in Hyperspace can interact, combined with better Hyperdrives letting one stay in Hyperspace longer leads me to think that the Power that best models this is Extra-Dimensional Movement.

 

D'oh! Of course!

 

Still, with all the work put into the existing stats in AW, TE and SpT, I would prefer simply changing the rubber science explanation to "shunt into another universe which moves (maybe: "rotates"?) at superluminal speeds relative to our own, stay there for a while being dragged, then return when desired". Higher class hyperdrives would allow to shunt into even faster hyperspace universes. (If you like the idea, feel free to use it at no cost. )

 

After all, using quadratic equations for all interstellar travel could really bog down a game... and the effect of larger distances being not as far away in travel time as is showed in distance on the map is rather un-intuitive.

[Basil]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

I disagree. The fact that a ship in Hyperspace is undetectable, but that two (or more) ships in Hyperspace can interact, combined with better Hyperdrives letting one stay in Hyperspace longer leads me to think that the Power that best models this is Extra-Dimensional Movement. It has to be linked to FTL with the -0 Lim "Only Relative To Real Space". That would cover the text's description, and I can't see any other way to. Certainly the power write-up given on Terran Empire p.160 (and Alein Wars p.126-127) doesn't come close.

D'oh! Of course!

 

Still, with all the work put into the existing stats in AW, TE and SpT, I would prefer simply changing the rubber science explanation to "shunt into another universe which moves (maybe: "rotates"?) at superluminal speeds relative to our own, stay there for a while being dragged, then return when desired". Higher class hyperdrives would allow to shunt into even faster hyperspace universes. (If you like the idea, feel free to use it at no cost. )

Yeah, I've always liked that FTL. And if you make the Hyperspaces discrete, each one giving a faster result, you account for the performances of the different Hyperdrives much better than at present.

 

After all' date=' using quadratic equations for all interstellar travel could really bog down a game... and the effect of larger distances being not as far away in travel time as is showed in distance on the map is rather un-intuitive.[/quote']

OK, here you've lost me. How does using XDM lead to quadratic equations? And your bit about larger distances and travel time and maps I just cannot turn into English I understand.

[DrTemp]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

OK, here you've lost me. How does using XDM lead to quadratic equations? And your bit about larger distances and travel time and maps I just cannot turn into English I understand.

 

 

If you have a reactionless thruster (such as in later TE times), you can accelerate all the time. Now, if your Hyperspace drive works as described in AW und TE, you will accelerate in Hyperspace also (only 1 m/s in Hyperspace will equal 1 000 000 m/s in normalspace).

 

T is the Time required (in seconds), V is the average velocity (in megameters per second), A your acceleration (in m/s/s)

 

T= D/V

V= A*T/4

 

So your travel time is:

 

T= D/(0.25*AT)

D=0.25*A*T^2

4D/A=T^2

T= [4*(D/A)]^(0.5)

or

T=2*[(D/A)^(0.5)]

 

Thus, the travel time is not proportional to the distance. A twice as high a distance requires not twice as much travel time, but less. To most people, that does not feel right, and it requires computation that most people aren't used to.

[Nyrath]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

Oh, it gets worse than that. If the ship accelerates long enough at a constant acceleration sooner or later you have to take relativity into account.

You can find the ugly equation for relativisitic acceleration at the bottom of this page

[nexus]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

Just to put in my unwanted two cents. I've never had players that really cared enough to make the build systems worth the work in most sci fi systems. As was mentioned, the ships were props. They worked because they needed to work other wise the characters would be stuck on one planet. "Why can't a fighter sized craft has a displacer drive?" The answer "because in this setting they're too big to fit on one" was an acceptable answer. I don't think sci fi technology has to definitely map to what we know today to be acceptable for gaming.

[Basil]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

 

If you have a reactionless thruster (such as in later TE times), you can accelerate all the time. Now, if your Hyperspace drive works as described in AW und TE, you will accelerate in Hyperspace also (only 1 m/s in Hyperspace will equal 1 000 000 m/s in normalspace).

 

T is the Time required (in seconds), V is the average velocity (in megameters per second), A your acceleration (in m/s/s)

 

T= D/V

V= A*T/4

 

So your travel time is:

 

T= D/(0.25*AT)

D=0.25*A*T^2

4D/A=T^2

T= [4*(D/A)]^(0.5)

or

T=2*[(D/A)^(0.5)]

 

Thus, the travel time is not proportional to the distance. A twice as high a distance requires not twice as much travel time, but less. To most people, that does not feel right, and it requires computation that most people aren't used to.

 

Ah, OK. When you said "quadratic equations" I was thinking of x=(-b ± sqrt(b^2 - 4ac))/2a That is, I thought you were talking about "solve for x" sort of thing.

 

As for time not being proportional to distance, but to the squareroot of the distance; it seem obvious to me, when you remember this is for constant acceleration. If you're always going faster, it doesn't take as long to go *this* km as it did the last km.

[Basil]

Re: Something Star Hero needs, but hasn't.

 

Oh, it gets worse than that. If the ship accelerates long enough at a constant acceleration sooner or later you have to take relativity into account.

You can find the ugly equation for relativisitic acceleration at the bottom of this page

 

Interesting. Unfortunately, they don't say what G is in #16, nor g in #17.

 

The Starflight Handbook has formulae for relativistic acceleration, but I won't inflict them on you unless someone asks.