Change of Speed

[Sean Waters]

Can't believe this has not been mentioned before, but...

 

 

Jumbuck (speed 6) gets hit with a speed drain before his action on phase 2. It does 10 points of effect, so he loses a point of speed, and becomes speed 5. He can not act now until phase 8, so only gets 3 phases that turn.

 

He then takes his PS12 recovery and recovers 5 cps in speed. He is still speed 5 because he needs to get the full quantum back before the speed returns. On phase 2, Booster, a friend of Jumbuck decides to help and hits him with an aid to speed doing 12 points of effect. His speed goes back up to 6...but he still doesn't get an action until phase 8.

 

 

Seems to me that the rules for increasing and decreasing speed are a bit unfair. Increasing or decreasing speed can reduce the number of actions taken and the effect of a speed drain can be disproportional (Jumbuck lost 3 SPEED in the above example).

 

Can I suggest an alternative for your consideration?

 

Speed reduction:

 

If your speed is reduced you stay on the same line of the speed chart but lose a number of actions this turn equal to the number of points lost. Those lost actions mean that you are treated as if the relevant phases do not exist.

 

After your post segment 12 recovery (and regaining any cps) you apply hte new speed and start the next turn with the adjusted speed. Lost phases do not carry over to the next turn.

 

Speed increase:

 

Immediately adjust your speed to the new speed, move to a new line of the speed chart and take any phases indicated.

 

I can not see that this system causes you to gain or lose more actions than appropriate. There may be some slight advantage in speed increase in getting consecutive phases, but I would not have thought this was too great an advantage compared to the, IMO, silly situation of a speed increase causing you to lose phases.

 

What do y'all think?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Can't believe this has not been mentioned before, but...

 

 

Jumbuck (speed 6) gets hit with a speed drain before his action on phase 2. It does 10 points of effect, so he loses a point of speed, and becomes speed 5. He can not act now until phase 8, so only gets 3 phases that turn.

 

He then takes his PS12 recovery and recovers 5 cps in speed. He is still speed 5 because he needs to get the full quantum back before the speed returns. On phase 2, Booster, a friend of Jumbuck decides to help and hits him with an aid to speed doing 12 points of effect. His speed goes back up to 6...but he still doesn't get an action until phase 8.

 

 

Seems to me that the rules for increasing and decreasing speed are a bit unfair. Increasing or decreasing speed can reduce the number of actions taken and the effect of a speed drain can be disproportional (Jumbuck lost 3 SPEED in the above example).

 

Can I suggest an alternative for your consideration?

 

Speed reduction:

 

If your speed is reduced you stay on the same line of the speed chart but lose a number of actions this turn equal to the number of points lost. Those lost actions mean that you are treated as if the relevant phases do not exist.

 

After your post segment 12 recovery (and regaining any cps) you apply hte new speed and start the next turn with the adjusted speed. Lost phases do not carry over to the next turn.

 

Speed increase:

 

Immediately adjust your speed to the new speed, move to a new line of the speed chart and take any phases indicated.

 

I can not see that this system causes you to gain or lose more actions than appropriate. There may be some slight advantage in speed increase in getting consecutive phases, but I would not have thought this was too great an advantage compared to the, IMO, silly situation of a speed increase causing you to lose phases.

 

What do y'all think?

Seems like a fair ruling.

 

Drains and other adjustment powers have always been one of my least favorite aspects of the rules since very rarely can they be put to use for a heroic effect in most games no matter the genre. They seem to be much more suited to NPC villian types IMO.

 

HM

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Seems like a fair ruling.

 

Drains and other adjustment powers have always been one of my least favorite aspects of the rules since very rarely can they be put to use for a heroic effect in most games no matter the genre. They seem to be much more suited to NPC villian types IMO.

 

HM

 

I suppose most drains are not going to have a permanent effect, and so they are a relatively gentle way of taking out a villain, but I was thinking the other day, when someone mentioned that Collossus seems to have scads of power defence, that drains are quite rarely used in comics. I am sure you can think of examples, but it is an uncommon effect.

 

Odd, isn't it, that paralysing someone with a drain 'feels' more evil than beating them unconscious with your fists.....

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Can't believe this has not been mentioned before' date=' but...[/quote']

 

I do remember this being talked about before. The consensus that I remember seems to be that the rules as written could result in such an event. I think that the solution I preferred was that the next segment that both speeds had in common could be used.

 

So in the example given Spd 6 goes on

 

2 4 6 8 10 12

 

Spd 5 goes on

 

3 5 8 10 12

 

The speed drain causing a loss of 1 speed on segment 2 would mean that the next segment in common would actually be 4 and then 8 10 12. Thus he would get 5 actions but in a strange fashion - 2 4 8 10 12 and the next turn he would be the normal speed 5 actions.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I suppose most drains are not going to have a permanent effect, and so they are a relatively gentle way of taking out a villain, but I was thinking the other day, when someone mentioned that Collossus seems to have scads of power defence, that drains are quite rarely used in comics. I am sure you can think of examples, but it is an uncommon effect.

 

Odd, isn't it, that paralysing someone with a drain 'feels' more evil than beating them unconscious with your fists.....

I think it has more to do with the fact that Drains and Suppresses (note: I left out Transfers) very rarely can be put to use in a heroic way like lifting the collapsed highway off of trapped motorists...

 

Also, we all tend to get caught up in the rules mechanics instead of what is really happening sometimes.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I do remember this being talked about before. The consensus that I remember seems to be that the rules as written could result in such an event. I think that the solution I preferred was that the next segment that both speeds had in common could be used.

 

So in the example given Spd 6 goes on

 

2 4 6 8 10 12

 

Spd 5 goes on

 

3 5 8 10 12

 

The speed drain causing a loss of 1 speed on segment 2 would mean that the next segment in common would actually be 4 and then 8 10 12. Thus he would get 5 actions but in a strange fashion - 2 4 8 10 12 and the next turn he would be the normal speed 5 actions.

So the Speed 5's phase 3 just gets delayed until phase 4?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I do remember this being talked about before. The consensus that I remember seems to be that the rules as written could result in such an event. I think that the solution I preferred was that the next segment that both speeds had in common could be used.

 

So in the example given Spd 6 goes on

 

2 4 6 8 10 12

 

Spd 5 goes on

 

3 5 8 10 12

 

The speed drain causing a loss of 1 speed on segment 2 would mean that the next segment in common would actually be 4 and then 8 10 12. Thus he would get 5 actions but in a strange fashion - 2 4 8 10 12 and the next turn he would be the normal speed 5 actions.

 

Sorry, but the way your describing is as outlined in FRED (I think) and in your example, the next common segment would be 8, unless you allowed a notional held action on 3?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Can't believe this has not been mentioned before, but...

 

 

Jumbuck (speed 6) gets hit with a speed drain before his action on phase 2. It does 10 points of effect, so he loses a point of speed, and becomes speed 5. He can not act now until phase 8, so only gets 3 phases that turn.

 

He then takes his PS12 recovery and recovers 5 cps in speed. He is still speed 5 because he needs to get the full quantum back before the speed returns. On phase 2, Booster, a friend of Jumbuck decides to help and hits him with an aid to speed doing 12 points of effect. His speed goes back up to 6...but he still doesn't get an action until phase 8.

 

 

Seems to me that the rules for increasing and decreasing speed are a bit unfair. Increasing or decreasing speed can reduce the number of actions taken and the effect of a speed drain can be disproportional (Jumbuck lost 3 SPEED in the above example).

 

Can I suggest an alternative for your consideration?

 

Speed reduction:

 

If your speed is reduced you stay on the same line of the speed chart but lose a number of actions this turn equal to the number of points lost. Those lost actions mean that you are treated as if the relevant phases do not exist.

 

After your post segment 12 recovery (and regaining any cps) you apply hte new speed and start the next turn with the adjusted speed. Lost phases do not carry over to the next turn.

 

Speed increase:

 

Immediately adjust your speed to the new speed, move to a new line of the speed chart and take any phases indicated.

 

I can not see that this system causes you to gain or lose more actions than appropriate. There may be some slight advantage in speed increase in getting consecutive phases, but I would not have thought this was too great an advantage compared to the, IMO, silly situation of a speed increase causing you to lose phases.

 

What do y'all think?

According to the FAQ, the section highlighted in red above is wrong.

 

Q: How do Adjustment Powers interact with fractional SPD? For example, a character with a 27 DEX has a 3.7 base SPD. He can buy it up to a 4 SPD for 3 points or he can leave it at a 3 SPD for 0 points. Let’s say he remains at a 3 SPD.>>

 

This character is hit by a Drain against his SPD. The Drain does 6 points of effect. Does this reduce him to a 2 SPD (3 - .6 = 2.4 which rounds down to 2) or does he remain at a 3 SPD, with the Drain acting against the “fractional SPD†portion of his base SPD (3.7 - .6 = 3.1 which rounds down to 3)?>>

 

>>

 

A: You’d treat him as having SPD 3. If the Drain removes 6 points, it reduces him to a putative “SPD 2.4†— but he still has SPD 3, because as the rules on 5E 73 indicate, a Drain or the like has to remove enough points to remove an entire increment of a Characteristic or Power to reduce it. Until the Drain has a full 10 Character Points’ worth of effect, the character remains at SPD 3.>>

 

Although the rules on 5E 73 only refer to the reduction of Characteristics and Powers, the same logic applies in reverse — adding an increment of an incremental Characteristic or Power requires an Aid (or the like) that applies a full increment’s worth of Character Points.

HM

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I prefer the pre-5e rule that the character will next move on the later of the next phase of his new speed and the next phase of his old Speed.

 

In your example, a drain in phase 2, after the character's move would mean he next moves in either Ph 3 (as a 5 speed) or Ph 4 (as a 6 speed), so he next moves in Ph 4.

 

The Aid in Ph 2 would allow him to move next in Ph 3 (as a 5 SPD) or Ph 2 (he would otherwise have had a Ph 2 action), so either 2 or 3. he moves on 3, then uses the 6 SPD chart.

 

Isn't the default rule that speed changes only take effect at the end of the turn? That's even worse - SpeedMan gets hit by 5 co-ordinating agents on Phase 1 (they reserved in Ph 12), but still has his usual 10 Speed until the end of the turn (and he uses his actions to take out all the agents anyway), even if they hit him 4 more times in Phase 3.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

According to the FAQ, the section highlighted in red above is wrong.

 

We are obviously seeing this differently. My view is that if 10 character points of speed are drained then you lose 1 point of speed, but you need to recover the full 10 points before you get that point of speed back: it doesn't return when you recover 5 points. That is why, I believe, it mentions that the same applies in reverse. Jumbuck, in my example, loses 10 character points of speed, so goes from speed 6 to speed 5, then regains 5 character points PS12, so would still be speed 5 until he makes a further PS12 recovery and gets another 5 character points worth of speed back i.e. until he recovers a full 10 points worth.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I prefer the pre-5e rule that the character will next move on the later of the next phase of his new speed and the next phase of his old Speed.

 

In your example, a drain in phase 2, after the character's move would mean he next moves in either Ph 3 (as a 5 speed) or Ph 4 (as a 6 speed), so he next moves in Ph 4.

 

The Aid in Ph 2 would allow him to move next in Ph 3 (as a 5 SPD) or Ph 2 (he would otherwise have had a Ph 2 action), so either 2 or 3. he moves on 3, then uses the 6 SPD chart.

 

Isn't the default rule that speed changes only take effect at the end of the turn? That's even worse - SpeedMan gets hit by 5 co-ordinating agents on Phase 1 (they reserved in Ph 12), but still has his usual 10 Speed until the end of the turn (and he uses his actions to take out all the agents anyway), even if they hit him 4 more times in Phase 3.

 

 

You are right about that being the default rule for voluntary changes of speed, but imposed changes work as I described at the start of the post: your next action is when your new and old speeds would share a common phase. Haven't got FRED with me but p223 or thereabouts from memory. Page following the speed chart.

 

4th Edition did it the same way, but the system you describe would address all the concerns I have about the speed change rules.

[MitchellS]

Re: Change of Speed

 

A 6 spd character drained on phase 2 should go next on 5. This would allow him to go on Phases 2, 5, 8, 10, and 12 giving him 5 actions in the turn. If on the next phase 2 he is aided 12 points his speed is increased back to 6, and so he should get that 2 and then 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 phases that turn. The important thing is to remember how many phases the character should be getting in the turn due to spd and then to adjust in the most logical fashion, IMO.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

A 6 spd character drained on phase 2 should go next on 5. This would allow him to go on Phases 2' date=' 5, 8, 10, and 12 giving him 5 actions in the turn. If on the next phase 2 he is aided 12 points his speed is increased back to 6, and so he should get that 2 and then 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 phases that turn. The important thing is to remember how many phases the character should be getting in the turn due to spd and then to adjust in the most logical fashion, IMO.[/quote']

 

I'd agree, my concern being I don't think that the rul;es at present do.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Change of Speed

 

A 6 spd character drained on phase 2 should go next on 5. This would allow him to go on Phases 2' date=' 5, 8, 10, and 12 giving him 5 actions in the turn. If on the next phase 2 he is aided 12 points his speed is increased back to 6, and so he should get that 2 and then 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 phases that turn. The important thing is to remember how many phases the character should be getting in the turn due to spd and then to adjust in the most logical fashion, IMO.[/quote']

Just one more thing to add.

 

It appears (according to the FAQ) that if the character's SPD were aided by only 1 active point above a 5 SPD (1/10 of a point of SPD) he would still go back to 6 SPD immediately for the remainder of that Turn.

 

HM

[MitchellS]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I'd agree' date=' my concern being I don't think that the rul;es at present do.[/quote']

I understand. The rules must deal with player-munching along the lines of players voluntarily changing their speeds to try and get extra actions. Example: Speed 6 guy decides he will switch to speed 5 after phase 2 to try and get an action on phase 3. While a more experience GM might recognize the tactic new GMs might not understand the ramifications. More experienced GMs can then make house rules like the one we use to rectify the problem, assuming it comes up a lot. Speed drain is not that common of a power.

[MitchellS]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Just one more thing to add.

 

It appears (according to the FAQ) that if the character's SPD were aided by only 1 active point above a 5 SPD (1/10 of a point of SPD) he would still go back to 6 SPD immediately for the remainder of that Turn.

 

HM

I don't agree with a lot of things in the faq. 5E has some screwy and illogical rules in the faq. No disrespect to Steve Long but I think he has made several bad answers in the faq but is just too stubborn/proud to go back and correct them. If you are drained 10 points to a 5 speed then you need 10 full points of aid or healing to go back to a 6. You must replace point for point, IMO.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I don't agree with a lot of things in the faq. 5E has some screwy and illogical rules in the faq. No disrespect to Steve Long but I think he has made several bad answers in the faq but is just too stubborn/proud to go back and correct them. If you are drained 10 points to a 5 speed then you need 10 full points of aid or healing to go back to a 6. You must replace point for point' date=' IMO.[/quote']

I actually disagree with you on that one.

 

Look at from the opposite angle. I attempt to drain SPD from a SPD 6 character and I roll 9 points of effect. The target still has a 6 SPD. The example I gave is basically the same.

 

HM

[MitchellS]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I actually disagree with you on that one.

 

Look at from the opposite angle. I attempt to drain SPD from a SPD 6 character and I roll 9 points of effect. The target still has a 6 SPD. The example I gave is basically the same.

 

HM

It's not really the same. On average you need 3d6 of drain (30 points) to remove 1 point of speed from a characters. If you drain someone's speed from 6 to 5.1 they are still a six. If you drain their speed to 5.0 they are a 5. If you drain them to 4.9 they are still a 5.

 

A 1d6 aid costs 10 points. You should not be able to offset a 30 point drain with a 10 point aid. If you have drained 10 points from someone an aid can only heal back 6. There is no logical reason why someone drained to a 5.0 speed should be allowed to return to 6 just because you rolled a 1 on your aid roll. If that person were drained to the 4.9 example above, but was still operating as a 5, would you allow them to go back to a 6 because the aid roll was 1 and it raised them to 5.0?

 

You must drain 10 points to lose a point of speed and you should need to restore 10 points to return a point of speed.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I think this is a poorly worded, or perhaps slightly misunderstood question question. Here is my understanding of how it works...does it accord with yours?

 

Q: How do Adjustment Powers interact with fractional SPD? For example, a character with a 27 DEX has a 3.7 base SPD. He can buy it up to a 4 SPD for 3 points or he can leave it at a 3 SPD for 0 points. Let’s say he remains at a 3 SPD.

 

This character is hit by a Drain against his SPD. The Drain does 6 points of effect. Does this reduce him to a 2 SPD (3 - .6 = 2.4 which rounds down to 2) or does he remain at a 3 SPD, with the Drain acting against the “fractional SPD†portion of his base SPD (3.7 - .6 = 3.1 which rounds down to 3)?

 

A: You’d treat him as having SPD 3. If the Drain removes 6 points, it reduces him to a putative “SPD 2.4†— but he still has SPD 3, because as the rules on 5E 73 indicate, a Drain or the like has to remove enough points to remove an entire increment of a Characteristic or Power to reduce it. Until the Drain has a full 10 Character Points’ worth of effect, the character remains at SPD 3.

 

Although the rules on 5E 73 only refer to the reduction of Characteristics and Powers, the same logic applies in reverse — adding an increment of an incremental Characteristic or Power requires an Aid (or the like) that applies a full increment’s worth of Character Points.

 

 

I understand it to mean that he DOES NOT have 37 effective character points (ECP) in SPEED, he has 30, having saved 7 in character creation. If this is NOT the case then 6 points of speed drain would not effect his speed characteristic at all: he'd have 31 ECP in speed, and still be speed 3. You'd need to drain 17 ECP to effect a 1 point drop in his speed.

 

Assuming that he did save the 7 points, and has 30 ECP, the 6 point speed drain would reduce his ECP to 24, or SPEED 3 still because a full 'unit' of speed has not been drained. Had he started at speed 2 (20 ECP) and GAINED 4 points with an aid he would be at speed 2 still because he has not GAINED a full unit of speed.

 

You can not simply look at how many ECP you have and round: you have to know where you started and which way you are going!

 

NOW, assuming that he started at 30 ECP in speed, and then suffered a drain for 15 points, he would then have 15 ECP in speed, or Speed 2 because 1 full unit of speed (10 ecp) have been drained and the other 5 points do not constitute a full unit of speed.

 

1st PS12 he GAINS 5 ECP, so his net loss is now 10 ECP, or 1 speed: he is still Speed 2.

 

2nd PS12 he GAINS 5 ECP, so his net loss is now 5 ECP BUT, because that final unit of speed has not been fully regained he is still Speed 2.

 

3rd PS12 he gains 5 ECP, so his net loss is now 0 ECP and he has regained a full unit of speed so he is back up to his normal speed of 3.

 

The way I apply it, you have to lose a full unit of speed before you lose a point of speed, you have to regain a full unit of speed before you get a lost point of speed back.

 

Going the other way, if he was aided for 6 ECP he would have a net total of 36 ECP, and still be Speed 3. If he then gets another aid for 6 more points he has 42 ECP and becomes speed 4 because he has gained a full unit of speed (10 ECP). At PS12 he loses 5 points, and has 37 ECP but remains at speed 4 as he has not lost a full unit of speed. Next PS12 he loses another 5 ECP and has a net 32 ECP. He is still speed 4 EVEN THOUGH he has lost a 10 ECP, because the first two lost (42 and 41) are a 'buffer'. It is not until the third PS12 when the final two boosted points are lost that the speed returns to 3.

 

That is my understanding and the way I play it. Is that how y'all understand it too, or am I out here on my own? In the rain.

[zornwil]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I agree that the "going in" SPD of a character IGNORES any fractional points left on their character sheet, and that is consistent with the FAQ.

 

I think the confusion relates to the events during combat in regard to fractional SPD changes. I believe the FAQ alludes to (with its 2.4 comment) fractional SPD DURING combat per Drains and Aids and such being valid, because one has to calculate these impacts, and these would have very limited impacts if they had to reach break points all-or-nothing (i.e., a SPD drain/aid would have to do a full 10 points every time to have impact).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

I agree that the "going in" SPD of a character IGNORES any fractional points left on their character sheet, and that is consistent with the FAQ.

 

I think the confusion relates to the events during combat in regard to fractional SPD changes. I believe the FAQ alludes to (with its 2.4 comment) fractional SPD DURING combat per Drains and Aids and such being valid, because one has to calculate these impacts, and these would have very limited impacts if they had to reach break points all-or-nothing (i.e., a SPD drain/aid would have to do a full 10 points every time to have impact).

 

Y'see, I think that IS what the FAQ is saying, albeit in a slightly confusing way...well, I think that the answer is clear but the question doesn't help!

 

I am quite sure that fractional points left on the character sheet are not ignored when you are drained, but are drained first (to no effect). That would be one benefit of spending points on speed before you have enough for a full point. I think Steve assumed that, as the characetr was Speed 3, he had 30 ECP. I'll ask him.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Y'see, I think that IS what the FAQ is saying, albeit in a slightly confusing way...well, I think that the answer is clear but the question doesn't help!

 

I am quite sure that fractional points left on the character sheet are not ignored when you are drained, but are drained first (to no effect). That would be one benefit of spending points on speed before you have enough for a full point. I think Steve assumed that, as the characetr was Speed 3, he had 30 ECP. I'll ask him.

 

If these fractional points have no impact, then they should never be taken. For our hypothetical 27 DEX, 3 SPD guy, take the 7 point rebate and buy +1 Speed, act 14-. On every PS12, roll to see if you're speed 3 or 4 next turn. [You're laughing, but I have a character who is buying DEX up in this fashion, and will do the same with SPD eventually.]

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change of Speed

 

If these fractional points have no impact' date=' then they should never be taken. For our hypothetical 27 DEX, 3 SPD guy, take the 7 point rebate and buy +1 Speed, act 14-. On every PS12, roll to see if you're speed 3 or 4 next turn. [You're laughing, but I have a character who is buying DEX up in this fashion, and will do the same with SPD eventually.']

 

It wasn't that they were being taken, it was that (I thought) they were there anyway...looks like I was wrong...see the recent post in Questions to Steve, and the FAQ:

 

Q: If a character ends up with a fractional remainder for SPD (for example, he has DEX 24, yielding a SPD of 3.4, and chooses not to buy it up to 4), may he sell back the fractional remainder?

 

 

A: No, not even if he sells his SPD all the way back to the next lowest number (e.g., to SPD 2 from SPD 3.4). The character you describe doesn’t have a “SPD 3.4†— he has SPD 3, and thus nothing to sell back. A “fractional result†for SPD only comes into play, and only benefits the character, if he chooses to buy his SPD up to the next whole number.

 

I'm quite sure it never used to be that way. Rule changes like that that are snuck past you REALLY tick me off. Meddling for the sake of it...mutter, mutter. Now I'll go home, look up 4th edition and find that I've been wrong forever...but you know what I mean.

 

The rule used to be (I'm sure it was...) you could only ever sell back one secondary characteristic, and fractional speed was always a good bet if you couldn't justify or afford the higher value...or if you wanted to do as you suggest above.

 

As for buying speed up by activation rolls, not laughing: it is the only way to buy up big increments of characteristics or powers - load in the limitations (and activation is especially appropriate, IMO, as is costs END and increased END cost - pushing new abilities to develop them is often tiring) and buy them off when you can.

 

Here's one for you: if you buy added speed that costs END, how often do you pay? Every phase, or once per turn? (Or something else....?)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Here's one for you: if you buy added speed that costs END' date=' how often do you pay? Every phase, or once per turn? (Or something else....?)[/quote']

 

That one's been ruled as every phase. It bugs me on one hand because you don't get the benefit every phase, and because it makes no sense that +1 SPD, costs END sucks out 11 END per turn if you started with 10 SPD, but only 3 if you started with 2 SPD.

 

On the other hand, any other stat that costs END costs every phase, so is there any justification for SPD being different?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Change of Speed

 

Sorry' date=' but the way your describing is as outlined in FRED (I think) and in your example, the next common segment would be 8, unless you allowed a notional held action on 3?[/quote']

 

It depends on what you mean by next common segment - I find too many people seem to view the segment a phase begins on as THE segment. If you look at SPD 5 and SPD 6 characters then the first possible segment that both could be active on would be segment 4.

 

For SPD 6 segment 4 is the beginning segment of the next phase and for SPD 5 segment 3 is the beginning segment of the next phase. If the SPD 5 character does not act on segment three (delays) then segment 4 is still an active segment for SPD 5 and thus is a candidate for common segment...

 

Does that sound as confusing to everyone else as it does to me re-reading it (and I _know_ what I mean!).

 

Doc