Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

December 29, 2004

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Nope. Unless I've been sleep-gaming...

Seriously, though, she was posted here before, in much rougher form, maybe someone lifted her basic concept and name. She's certainly not something I picked up form somewhere else. I have too many ideas in my head demanding attention to go "borrowing" them from someone else.

The name "Saviel" took me almost 2 days of messing around with names ending in "iel" before I settled on it.

I remember now.

I asked this before as Morningstar70, then mixed your Archangel with mine. :doi:

Kristopher · March 17, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

I hope Saviel won't mind me practicing a bit of necromancy on this thread...

Wanted to bump this for a couple people who were looking for it, instead of taking over someone else's thread.

Kristopher · March 24, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Latest little update:

Doing some research, looking for ideas for other characters along these lines, I came across a couple of "real" angels whose names are similar to Saviel's.

Za'afiel - Wrath of God

Sariel - decides the fate of angels who break angelic law; sometimes refered to as female

Wiki list of possible angelic names

Obviously anything in Wikipedia is nothing close to the authoritative source on this, but it does give an idea of all the competing ideas about the subject out there

Anyway, the thing I find interesting about this is that despite the similarity, I hadn't seen those two names when I came up with the name "Saviel", but rather found them recently.

Kristopher · March 24, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Here's a long list of links I used when I originally did the research for War Angel. I can't gaurantee that they all still work. Take them with a grain of salt -- there's a lot of new agey stuff, a lot of seriously religious stuff, and so on. The funny thing is, I'm entirely agnostic, and yet I find this subject fascinating accademically and as a writer.

http://www.vampyra.com/demons/hell.htm

http://www.steliart.com/angelology_angel_names_S.html

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/nephilim.html

http://itsa.ucsf.edu/~snlrc/britannia/beowulf/reading.html

http://www.lists.lightbearer.com/immortal-l/1998/07/msg00310.html

http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/nephilim.html

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nephilim.html

http://www.steliart.com/angelology_fallen_heavens_war.html

http://www.cameronlaw.com/study/167.php

http://www.paradiselost.org/6-satan.html'>http://www.paradiselost.org/6-satan.html

http://www.paradiselost.org/

http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/enoch/

http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophory_in_the_Bible

Edit: fixed the links so most of them work now.

Marketeer · March 24, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

I hope Saviel won't mind me practicing a bit of necromancy on this thread...

Wanted to bump this for a couple people who were looking for it, instead of taking over someone else's thread.

I'm pretty sure she'd find your threadcromancy to be a violation of the Way Things Should Be .

Incidentally, feel like fleshing out her background a bit more? I think our last back-and-forth was rather amusing and interesting in terms of filling out the character.

Kristopher · March 24, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

I'm pretty sure she'd find your threadcromancy to be a violation of the Way Things Should Be .

Incidentally, feel like fleshing out her background a bit more? I think our last back-and-forth was rather amusing and interesting in terms of filling out the character.

Sure, this weekend sometime when I'm not half asleep and can go back and read the last few pages again in detail. Trying to think about something else until I'm tired enough to fall asleep despite tonight's mild insomnia.

zornwil · March 25, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Really nice work on the links, Kristopher, thanks!

Kristopher · March 28, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Kristopher' date=' I'd be most interested in how she made that transition - I would think when she first arrived for weeks and months, if not years, on end she would just smite evil - after all, there's SO much of it and she doesn't have to eat or such and it's not like she had any reason to make friends upon landing here (or perhaps she does - does she need friendship?). In fact personally I could imagine her just never ending in her struggle, even a decade later. But if she is indeed having any moments where she doesn't do that, it'd be both interesting and probably be important even for the character to understand how/at what point she realized she could or should do anything else.[/quote']

Thinking out loud...

She needs somewhere to sleep (her LS is bought as "8 hrs/week"). She needs a few extra clothes, since they can get dirty or damaged even if she doesn't sweat or anything. (Unless it seems appropriate to make some other, less mundane arrangement.) She spent a lot of time not fighting before coming to earth, even if most of it was spent studying war and combat. She likes books. So I guess she needs some kind of income from somewhere -- I can't really picture her as a vagabond.

While I really wouldn't say that she needs friends, she does have that military background, and understands the value of comrades. She's pretty intense, but honorable, loyal, and basically good, so I can't see most superheroes rejecting her. The biggest source of friction might be the CvK that she doesn't have. She does have reasons to at least make allies, since she probably can't track down Takofanes or Doc D on her own, and even at her power level she'll need help when it comes time to fight either of them.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=555649&postcount=67

OK, been thinking. Brainstorming follows...

When she first arrived, she failed to stop the destruction of Detroit, and it hit her hard. It's likely that, as you suggest, Saviel sets about smiting and thwarting a lot of evil in those first few months or years. She's ancient, and a few years wouldn't mean much to her. At some point, though, I want the other aspects of her besides the fighting machine to show through.

As I said before, she likes books. She needs somewhere to keep her books.

I'm thinking that she might outgrow the CU a bit, at least in its canon form. One thing I'm considering in all this is a hidden community in the mortal world of exiled angels, and fallen seeking redemption, and demons going what demons do, and angels doing what angels do, a hidden world that overlaps with the mystic world and the superhuman world to some degree.

She won't rely on any church for support.

Trying to think of what event or person might have brought her out of the smiting binge that probably began after what she saw as her failure in Detroit. "The Scourge" is a strong part of her psyche, and as you said she could have easily gone right on smiting for decades...

Kristopher · March 28, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Leaping to another thought' date=' even a part-time job as a Martial Arts instructor seems appropriate to her general temperment, and sufficient for her humble needs--although I think she'd be a rather demanded sensei/sifu. [/quote']

You think?

I don't see her having enough of a human scholastic background to be a historian, librarian, or some such--she certainly possesses the content, but not the modes of communicating that content a human in an equivalent role would be expected to possess.

She might be able to make some money by agreeing to be interviewed by historians, however.

And as her character sheet says, it's amazing how much cash the typical VIPER or DEMON opperation has lying around...

Kristopher · March 28, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

I ended up sticking with the self-exiled concept for Saviel, and I'm very happy with where that lead me, and how it turned out.

There were plenty of good ideas for other characters suggested, however. Here's what I can find on the thread:

----------------

Fell in love with another Angel, and this sin (loving another more than G_d) was enough to cause her to fall, but not to be damned.

Was dispatched with some particular purpose, but not told what that was.

Maybe just a mad, powerful spirit that thinks itself to be an Angel.

Maybe a true Angel from the one true Heaven, but one that was allowed to develop a sense of self, and that sense of individual identity was enough to cause her to fall to Earth, but not enough to cause her to join the fallen ones in Hell.

Maybe, as in some Islamic folk tales, Human sin so enraged her that she questioned the wisdom of G_d in creating these creatures, and thus she fell.

I would wonder if Saviel wouldn't have been cast out for her burning fire and the hatred it holds? She certainly fought on the correct side, but perhaps God would not like her motivation, too selfish/personal/emotional/hate-filled?

Perhaps her exile isn't vengeance-driven so much as penitence-driven? Casting herself out for a perceived failing on her part?

Well, a whole bunch of angels were supposed to have defected along with Lucifer, so you can always fall back on that as an origin.

No longer willing to follow Lucifer (a decision made either long ago, or recently -- as you wish) but no longer welcome in Heaven. Very useful for a "seeking redemption" theme if you go that route...

----------------

Marketeer · March 31, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=555649&postcount=67

OK, been thinking. Brainstorming follows...

When she first arrived, she failed to stop the destruction of Detroit, and it hit her hard. It's likely that, as you suggest, Saviel sets about smiting and thwarting a lot of evil in those first few months or years. She's ancient, and a few years wouldn't mean much to her. At some point, though, I want the other aspects of her besides the fighting machine to show through.

Well, given her origin and overall tone, she probably spent a great deal of time focusing on supernatural or particularly vile "evils". Perhaps at some point she encounters a genuinely repentent evil being--I think a human who wants to atone for mundane wrongs works best narratively--and needs her help to make things right.

All it takes is one moment of epiphany where Saviel realizes "oh, I don't know how to help"; even if she works it out in time to be of useful assistance, that moment of shock might have been enough to snap her out of smite mode.

As I said before, she likes books. She needs somewhere to keep her books.

I'm thinking that she might outgrow the CU a bit, at least in its canon form. One thing I'm considering in all this is a hidden community in the mortal world of exiled angels, and fallen seeking redemption, and demons going what demons do, and angels doing what angels do, a hidden world that overlaps with the mystic world and the superhuman world to some degree.

I haven't kept up as much as I'd like with the 5th edition supplements, but that was the essential premise in 4th ed Mystic Masters; that many remained largely ignorant of the Hidden War.

Perhaps, rather than outgrowing it per se, Saviel eventually concludes/decides that the "open front" of super-dom is not where The War shall ultimately be decided?

She won't rely on any church for support.

And analogously won't support any church (I take that as a given).

Trying to think of what event or person might have brought her out of the smiting binge that probably began after what she saw as her failure in Detroit. "The Scourge" is a strong part of her psyche, and as you said she could have easily gone right on smiting for decades...

I have posted one theory as to what broke the binge above; even if she wasn't a "healing" or "messenger" angel in terms of specialization, having a hurt soul who needs her help simply because no other is available would probably do it.

Marketeer · March 31, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

She might be able to make some money by agreeing to be interviewed by historians, however.

And as her character sheet says, it's amazing how much cash the typical VIPER or DEMON opperation has lying around...

I can see her being a very inspirational writer if she ever put her mind to it, or someone who wrote "historical fiction".

She just gives me the kind of vibe as someone who would find it faintly distasteful to take money from criminals for personal use. I don't think she'd have a moral objection, she'd just find it... gauche.

Kristopher · April 2, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

I can see her being a very inspirational writer if she ever put her mind to it' date=' or someone who wrote "historical fiction".[/quote']

Hmm. I wonder what she'd write about.

She just gives me the kind of vibe as someone who would find it faintly distasteful to take money from criminals for personal use. I don't think she'd have a moral objection, she'd just find it... gauche.

Quite possibly.

Egyptoid · April 2, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

If she has a heart of genuine love, she will have a type of chivalric code.

She will help the helpless, like serving at homeless shelter.

She will aid widows and orphans.

She might adopt a unit of soldiers and be their guardian angel in battle.

of course this is "down time" stuff.

I'm not sure if you were looking for combat ideas or what.

Psych Lim: Helpful.

Psych Lim: Forgiving, perhaps not of self.

Psych Lim: Loving, esp. to children.

Egyptoid · April 2, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

old 3rd ed. Angel

Serra Angel

Kristopher · April 2, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Well, given her origin and overall tone, she probably spent a great deal of time focusing on supernatural or particularly vile "evils". Perhaps at some point she encounters a genuinely repentent evil being--I think a human who wants to atone for mundane wrongs works best narratively--and needs her help to make things right.

All it takes is one moment of epiphany where Saviel realizes "oh, I don't know how to help"; even if she works it out in time to be of useful assistance, that moment of shock might have been enough to snap her out of smite mode.

"I know he's done terrible things, Saviel, but he's the only one who can set them right, and he's trying. He might even deserve to die, but killing him will makes things worse, not better."

I haven't kept up as much as I'd like with the 5th edition supplements, but that was the essential premise in 4th ed Mystic Masters; that many remained largely ignorant of the Hidden War.

Perhaps, rather than outgrowing it per se, Saviel eventually concludes/decides that the "open front" of super-dom is not where The War shall ultimately be decided?

The Hidden War refers to the struggle between different factions of mages, other mystics, supernatural beings, etc?

Marketeer · April 3, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

"I know he's done terrible things' date=' Saviel, but he's the only one who can set them right, and he's [i']trying[/i]. He might even deserve to die, but killing him will makes things worse, not better."

I was thinking more along the lines of the repentent perpetrator himself (or herself) coming to Saviel and saying "I'm sorry. If I could undo it, I would, but I can't. The best I can do is try and atone. But, I can't fix this alone. You're an angel. Can you help to make amends?"

Saviel is shocked to realize, at that moment, she doesn't know how--and ostensibly, the whole reason she went into smite mode is because of the evils being perpetrated on souls. Not being equipped at all to fix the problem, when she's the only being the repentent soul has to turn to, is a reality check.

The Hidden War refers to the struggle between different factions of mages, other mystics, supernatural beings, etc?

Actually, it was an excuse for me to randomly capitalize those words to make them sound important; but yes, the core concept would be that various mages and other supernaturals conduct their own affairs, away from the intense scrutiny mainstream "supers" operate under.

Marketeer · April 3, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Hmm. I wonder what she'd write about.

Could she possibly write thinly-veiled stories from her own past, dress them up as "fiction", and distribute them that way?

For that matter, maybe she wrote a log or war journal of some kind (I can't see her writing a diary, but a notebook of some sort, yes), and one of her associates suggest she have it published just because of the inherent value of the contents?

After all, "routine thoughts" for an angel would be deep metaphysical revelations for most humans, right?

Kristopher · April 5, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

I was thinking more along the lines of the repentent perpetrator himself (or herself) coming to Saviel and saying "I'm sorry. If I could undo it' date=' I would, but I can't. The best I can do is try and atone. But, [i']I can't fix this alone.[/i] You're an angel. Can you help to make amends?"

Saviel is shocked to realize, at that moment, she doesn't know how--and ostensibly, the whole reason she went into smite mode is because of the evils being perpetrated on souls. Not being equipped at all to fix the problem, when she's the only being the repentent soul has to turn to, is a reality check.

That does work. I'll try to work on this more when I get a chance, a little busy this month with various work and gaming projects.

Actually, it was an excuse for me to randomly capitalize those words to make them sound important; but yes, the core concept would be that various mages and other supernaturals conduct their own affairs, away from the intense scrutiny mainstream "supers" operate under.

That seems to be a common trope of the "supermystic" genre. Constantine, the White Wolf games, etc.

Could she possibly write thinly-veiled stories from her own past, dress them up as "fiction", and distribute them that way?

For that matter, maybe she wrote a log or war journal of some kind (I can't see her writing a diary, but a notebook of some sort, yes), and one of her associates suggest she have it published just because of the inherent value of the contents?

After all, "routine thoughts" for an angel would be deep metaphysical revelations for most humans, right?

Maybe. Probably more so with most other angels. Saviel's not one to dwell on the metaphysical.

Kristopher · April 6, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

In case anyone wonders why I've moved away from the War Angel sobriquet, well, there appears to be an established character out there by the same name, who is pretty much the anti-Saviel, and I want to avoid any confusion, so I'm pretty much calling Saviel by her own name now.

Pulido is a hack, by the way, and I'm not just saying that because of the name thing. He churns out big-breasted cliched fan-service female characters by the bucketfull.

zornwil · April 6, 2006

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Continued good work, I don't have much to add, but to suggest along the lines of the above that part of her transformation would realize how little just regular smiting is doing for humans who actually hae to live every day. When one considers that in her prior situation she was in a totally different environment, none of those truths would have been evident - in Heaven and Hell, just going on a smiting mission, so to speak, to Earth is an "event" that one's cohorts will encourage, and, sort of like dropping a bomb, remains largely depersonalized. Then, landing on Earth, she might realize that the "easy" part is the smiting part, and that humans remember compassion and hope during their lives. The retribution against those who did them wrong is, while memorable, less helpful in living one's life than what compassion and hope bring. As stated, this is all suggested above, I'm just thinking about it and adding some explication.

Gadodel · March 30, 2007

Re: Self-Exiled Angel -- Character Background Brainstorming

Excellent thread! I'll have to comb through it and see what I can add. When I have more time, of course! This will definitely help me with the use of Angels in my Dark Champions' campaign-'Revelations'.

:thumbup: