Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

[CrosshairCollie]

Just something that randomly filtered through my brain just now. What value would you put on a power that has the Side Effect of automatically Stunning the user when it's used?

[levi]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

It would depend on the character's CON score. Higher the CON the higher the bonus.

 

EDIT: I agree that SPD would also be a factor. Low CON and High SPD characters might only get -1/2 while High CON and Low SPD characters might deserve -1. With CON being equal, SPD would be the deciding factor as MitchellS points out below.

[OddHat]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I'd say maybe -1/2. In real terms he's only going to lose 1 phase, plus the DCV reduction. That's about the same as a Flash Side Effect.

[MitchellS]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I would consider it to be a major side effect which always occurs. That gives a bonus of -1.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

Depends. Is this a combat power? If not, maybe -1/4 (for those times when bad luck strikes).

 

If it's on a major attack/defense power, and he has a low SPD, -1.

 

In between, in between.

[OddHat]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I would consider it to be a major side effect which always occurs. That gives a bonus of -1.

 

I can't quite agree. A major side effect is 30 points with no defenses allowed; 6d6 is going to deal 21 stun on an average roll, enough to CON Stun many characters, plus the loss of stun points. This is just going to cost the character one action, no loss of stun points. It's dangerous, but I don't see it as worth 30 points of effect. It's closer (imo) to a 1d6 Flash vs a targeting sense, with a few other unfortunate effects (all non-persistant powers shut down). YMMV, of course.

[MitchellS]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I can't quite agree. A major side effect is 30 points with no defenses allowed; 6d6 is going to deal 21 stun on an average roll' date=' enough to CON Stun many characters, plus the loss of stun points. This is just going to cost the character one action, no loss of stun points. It's dangerous, but I don't see it as worth 30 points of effect. It's closer (imo) to a 1d6 Flash vs a targeting sense, with a few other unfortunate effects (all non-persistant powers shut down). YMMV, of course.[/quote']

It's not just losing a phase or being 0 DCV. Being stunned also includes losing all powers which cost endurance. You're flying, you stop. Have a force field? It shuts off. Those are big deals, even if they do only last 2-3 segments. I would consider that to be a major issue.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I can't quite agree. A major side effect is 30 points with no defenses allowed; 6d6 is going to deal 21 stun on an average roll' date=' enough to CON Stun many characters, plus the loss of stun points. This is just going to cost the character one action, no loss of stun points. It's dangerous, but I don't see it as worth 30 points of effect. It's closer (imo) to a 1d6 Flash vs a targeting sense, with a few other unfortunate effects (all non-persistant powers shut down). YMMV, of course.[/quote']

 

21 points? It wouldn't stun any of my characters. I think it's a major side effect. In our games, being stunned happens right before they beat you unconscious. Never show weakness.

[Outsider]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

Being stunned has the following effects :

1) Lose a phase

2) Half DCV, Half Location mod (for 1 phase)

3) All non persistent END using powers shut down.

 

The value of the 'stunned' side effect depends, then on how inconvenient these effects really are. If your campaign (or the particular character) does not use extra damage for hitting particular locations, for example, 2) becomes a lot less inconvenient. If the character in quesiton has been designed such that he simply doesnt have many or any important non-persistent END using powers, then 3) becomes a non-limiting limitation, which is worth nothing.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I can't quite agree. A major side effect is 30 points with no defenses allowed; 6d6 is going to deal 21 stun on an average roll' date=' enough to CON Stun many characters, plus the loss of stun points. This is just going to cost the character one action, no loss of stun points. It's dangerous, but I don't see it as worth 30 points of effect. It's closer (imo) to a 1d6 Flash vs a targeting sense, with a few other unfortunate effects (all non-persistant powers shut down). YMMV, of course.[/quote']I think to some extent it would depend on the genre being played. Taking 21 Stun damage will Stun most Fantasy Hero or modern characters, but it's certainly not going to Stun most superhumans. Some, yes, but in my experience most supers have CON of 23+. And it's a much larger penalty for a slow character (SPD of 3 or 4) than it is for a fast one. Since this is a "automatic" Stun result it's probably Major, but since it only Stuns the character without actually inflicting Stun on the character, it's worth less than a Major Side Effect IMO.

 

I'd tend to rate this Limitation as a -½, but again the exact level would depend on the particular character and campaign.

[OddHat]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

From my point of view, this limitation is trading a chance of being stunned or knocked out by taking real damage (that 6d6 a Major side effect would cause) for an auto-stun with no actual damage involved. The auto-stun does have consequences (reduced DCV, all non-persistant powers must be re-started), but those consequences are predictable and may be allowed for (the player is not likely to use this power in mid-flight or if he thinks he's in a position to be targetted). He's only losing one action and taking a risk of being shot while stunned. That feels more minor than major to me.

[MitchellS]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

From my point of view' date=' this limitation is trading a chance of being stunned or knocked out by taking real damage (that 6d6 a Major side effect would cause) for an auto-stun with no actual damage involved. The auto-stun does have consequences (reduced DCV, all non-persistant powers must be re-started), but those consequences are predictable and may be allowed for (the player is not likely to use this power in mid-flight or if he thinks he's in a position to be targetted). He's only losing one action and taking a risk of being shot while stunned. That feels more minor than major to me.[/quote']

It does tend to depend on the nature of the power. To me a 5 speed character using it on phase 3 and then being stunned with half cv and having all end powers off from segments 4 until his dex action on segment 8 [slightly over one-third of a turn] seems like a big deal. It seems more damaging that minor to me. And since our choices here are either -1/2 for minor or -1 for major I'd go with major.

 

Also keep in mind that the damage you are talking about is not NND damage. Taking a 6d6 EB would still mean the character would get his pd or ed. So in that case a 6d6 attack is probably not going to do more than a few points of damage to the character.

[OddHat]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

Also keep in mind that the damage you are talking about is not NND damage. Taking a 6d6 EB would still mean the character would get his pd or ed. So in that case a 6d6 attack is probably not going to do more than a few points of damage to the character.

 

No defense ever applies to side effect damage. It's built into the limitation. Check p.308 5thR.

[MitchellS]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

No defense ever applies to side effect damage. It's built into the limitation. Check p.308 5thR.

Thanks for point that out. I had missed it. Side effect really needs more examples than the few listed in 5Er.

[Bengal]

Re: Value for Side Effect: Stunned?

 

I'm thinking, -7/16 or -15/32. Not quite worth a -1/2.