Guest lucky Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 ...and now I think I'd like to use the "Sandman" template as a villain in my campaign as well, 'cause, y'know... he's a #$@&!%& badass. So I was wondering: Since he can be effectively intangible and still able to hit people, I need to shell out points for the "Affects Physical World" Advantage on several of his Powers. Specifically, if I want him to be able to hit people while he's intangible, where do I put the Advantage--on his Strength, on his Stretching or on his Hand-to-Hand Attack (big sandstone fists, doncha know)? Do I have to put the Advantage on all three? Also, if I wanted to add a "choking sand" effect to the blinding sandstorm Dust Raven mentioned, would a Linked NND be appropriate? I was thinking of something like this: Energy Blast 1d6, Affects the Physical World, Area Effect: Radius, Continuous, NND (Self-Contained Breathing or Tightly Covering One's Nose and Mouth), Personal Immunity(*), Reduced Endurance (0 END); Linked, No Range (*): In case he's not Desolid for whatever reason But upon re-reading it I'm struck by just how devastating it would be, not to mention colossally expensive. Hm. Anyway, thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Many eons ago I used to use a villian based on ol sandy named Quagmire...I went with Damage reduction to reprisent the whole "not really very tangable" thang...3/4 DR is really tough and you leave the villian slightly hittable And avoid the whole affects desolid, affects real world issue entirely. A character that fights Desolid is a sort of a "one trick pony", either invincable or toasted, based on the heros powers. Myself I find that less enjoyable. YMMV though.....of course back in the day, affects real world didn't exist... I also made his DR and "attack cloud" powers not work if he got wet, and Regen only in sand...I think the "attack cloud was NND:LS non breathing or equiv and a Flash AE no range with personal immunity........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... So something like: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75%; Nonpersistent (-1/4) Plus Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75%; Nonpersistent (-1/4) What would a Limitation like "Does Not Work Against Water-Based Attacks" be worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Depends on how common a water based attack is, and how obvious it is that such a things will still affect him. Off hand I'd say it's probably a -1/2. Even though there just aren't that many Firehoseman heroes running around, there are, in fact, a lot of fire hoses, fire hydrants and such that a clever and enterprising hero can make use of. But not so many (or easily accessible or reliably around, or even that powerful) as to be overly limiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Fair enough, and that would be applied to Physical Damage Reduction ('cause a firehose is definitely applied against PD). What about high winds? I'm guessing -1/4 Limitation and applied against Energy Damage Reduction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... I don't see "wind" as being energy. It's just as physical a water, just blowing air instead of water. Personally, I wouldn't use the DR versus Energy. If he goes Desol, he's do diffuse to be affected by anything (except wind and maybe water, which are physical). When not Desol I can see him being diffuse enough to "flow" around most physical attacks, but not at all against energy attacks. There's nothing to flow around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Okay, so I'm imagining a defensive Multipower that would look like this (since he won't be using both powers at the same time): 60**Made of Sand: Multipower, 60-point Reserve; 3u**1) Moderately Diffuse: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 AP); Nonpersistent (-¼), Does Not Work Against Water-Based Attacks (-½) 4u**2) Completely Diffuse: Desolidification (affected by high winds, extreme heat and water-based attacks), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (60 AP); Can Not Pass Through Solid Objects (-½) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendsmiths Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Maybe throw in a disad: Susceptability: High Winds and Air Attacks That way he takes damage in a hurricane or when someone does a TK-based airblast on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Damage reduction *hits self in head* why didn't I think of that. Here I am trying to add all kinds of limitations... I think you could swing energy damage reduction, if you wanted. In Sandy's case, it would represent shifting out of the way of most of the attack. Maybe a -1/2 limitation, only vs. attacks Sandy is aware of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiMan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Re: Energy attacks - I'd be tempted to give Sandy a load of ED, based on the strength of sand (silicon). It's a simple structure, and takes lots of heat to affect. So give him 30/20 ED/rED or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Yeah I think I put Quagmire at 3/4 Physical DR lim:Not when wet -1/4 (Easy to do, but not many might think of it) and Energy DR of 1/2 (not so good vs energy...) the multi sounds good I'd put the same "not when wet -1/4" on the desolid so the heros can capture him once they figure out his weakness.....I think I'd buy the DR straight out and build the Multi power of Sando-kinetics with the desolid 0 end, a slot of sand storm, a slot of hose em down with sand E-attack:Reduced by range and the like....Ohh and don't assume that you won't need both DR and Desolid at the same time affaects desolid isn't that rare an attack, plus the affected by always thang......(For example Wind attacks...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Well, I know that sand isn't an especially good conductor of electricity and melts at around 500 degrees Centigrade, but what about other energy forms? I like the idea of using Armor or Resistant Defenses versus Energy because it better simulates the existence of some kind of "threshold" that has to be breached before Sandy starts taking damage. Other Powers (some of which I'm totally cribbing from Dust Raven's original comments) should include (IMO): - Growth (pulling sand into own body) - Density Increase (solidifying to sandstone) - Stretching - Darkness with Linked NND (sandstorm) - Hand-to-Hand Attack (big frickin' sandstone fists) - Tunneling (through sand or loose earth only) - Entangle (quicksand) Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Should the Limitations "Not In Water" and "Not When Soaking Wet" be considered separately? "Not In Water" refers (IMO) to a situation wherein the character is completely (or almost-completely) immersed in water. "Not When Soaking Wet" expands this situation to cover events like rainstorms, firehoses, etc. In other words, one can be soaked without being immersed. If "Not In Water" is a (-1/4) Limitation, should "Not When Soaking Wet" be a (-1/2), or is that excessive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Should the Limitations "Not In Water" and "Not When Soaking Wet" be considered separately? "Not In Water" refers (IMO) to a situation wherein the character is completely (or almost-completely) immersed in water. "Not When Soaking Wet" expands this situation to cover events like rainstorms, firehoses, etc. In other words, one can be soaked without being immersed. If "Not In Water" is a (-1/4) Limitation, should "Not When Soaking Wet" be a (-1/2), or is that excessive? They are definately different situations, but I'd say they have the same value. While Not When Soaking Wet is definately more limiting, it's not limiting enough to be worth more than Not In Water. The GM should make sure this holds true during game play though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Yeah...the basic rule of limitations is its worth what its worth, so if you buy it as rare it's rare if you take common its common.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Well, sort of... I mean, "Does Not Work At Night" is pretty unambiguous, for example. Nevertheless, I get your point. Still, you don't think that assigning "Does Not Work When Wet" a (-1/2) is reasonable? It would cover situations as diverse as: - Being immersed in water (bathtub, swimming pool, sewer, ocean, etc.); - Getting soaked (heavy rain, firehose, broken hydrant, etc.); - Water-based attacks; All that for (-1/4) seems heavy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Fair enough, and that would be applied to Physical Damage Reduction ('cause a firehose is definitely applied against PD). What about high winds? I'm guessing -1/4 Limitation and applied against Energy Damage Reduction? Can I just commend you on the use of an appropriate apostrophe in your abbreviation of 'because'? I mean, given that you would have had to hit the 'shift key' you are not actually savnig any keystrokes, but well done, nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Well, sort of... I mean, "Does Not Work At Night" is pretty unambiguous, for example. Nevertheless, I get your point. Still, you don't think that assigning "Does Not Work When Wet" a (-1/2) is reasonable? It would cover situations as diverse as: - Being immersed in water (bathtub, swimming pool, sewer, ocean, etc.); - Getting soaked (heavy rain, firehose, broken hydrant, etc.); - Water-based attacks; All that for (-1/4) seems heavy... As with many things, it depends ow often the GM uses it. If it is not obvioous that wetting the character down would limit them then -1/4 may be appropriate - if it is then you may gety away with -1, assuming your opponents will almost always know what to do but may not always have the ability to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... I am the GM and I'm discussing an NPC villain, though these principles would hold more or less true for any sand-based character. In any event, given that the character is obviously made out of sand, I would think that most PCs would try to get the guy wet ASAP. So how about this: 67**Made of Sand: Multipower, 100-point Reserve (100 AP); Does Not Work When Wet Or Against Water-Based Attacks (-1/2) 8u**1) Moderately Diffuse: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 AP); Nonpersistent (-¼); PLUS Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (40 AP); Nonpersistent (-¼); 4u**2) Completely Diffuse: Desolidification (affected by high winds and extreme heat), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (60 AP); Can Not Pass Through Solid Objects (-½) TheRealLemming wrote: Can I just commend you on the use of an appropriate apostrophe in your abbreviation of 'because'? You may. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Well, sort of... I mean, "Does Not Work At Night" is pretty unambiguous, for example. Nevertheless, I get your point. Still, you don't think that assigning "Does Not Work When Wet" a (-1/2) is reasonable? It would cover situations as diverse as: - Being immersed in water (bathtub, swimming pool, sewer, ocean, etc.); - Getting soaked (heavy rain, firehose, broken hydrant, etc.); - Water-based attacks; All that for (-1/4) seems heavy... It all that happens regularly, or is obvious enough that the PCs will be looking for ways to make use of it, then it could certainly be worth a -1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... I don't know I guess it depends on the group I ran Quagmire for Years and nobody ever tried wetting him down without lots o' hints...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucky Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Re: "Sandy" Got Me Thinking... Really? Were they Spider-Man readers? If I encountered a villain like that, I'd start looking for a hydrant right away. Everything I ever learned about defeating people bigger and stronger than me, I learned from Spidey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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