Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

[KA.]

I was reading the thread about how long it takes to learn the Hero System.

Obviously, some people look upon Fred or 5thEdRev, and despair.

They don't realize that 99.9% of those pages are examples, details, and options, and that the core concepts of Hero are quite basic.

 

To prove this point, I thought about trying to explain Hero in one standard page of text.

 

By standard, I mean the digital equivalent of:

One page,

single spaced,

10 pt Courier New or Courier Font,

1/2 inch top and bottom margins,

1 inch side margins.

 

Since this sounded like a fun exercise, rather than hogging it for myself, I decided to share the idea as a challenge to the board.

 

I don't intend it to be a 'race', but since I haven't started yet, I decided to post this and let everyone, at least everyone currently watching the boards, have an even shot at giving it a try.

 

Please post your entries here.

 

I don't really intend this to be a competition.

 

What I hope to do is take the best bits of the various entries and come up with an extremely solid one page of Hero that I, and anyone else interested, can distribute freely.

 

Of course, this will not in any way be officially sanctioned by DOJ or Hero Games, unless they happen to get a look at it and decide to give it their stamp of approval, and it is not intended to be sold.

 

I actually see it as having multiple purposes.

 

1) Hero fans could print a few copies and hand them out to friendly/interested gamers they may meet, who may have heard of Hero, but who are under the impression that it is ridiculously complicated.

 

2) Hero fans could print a few copies to use to rebut the occasional moron that is steering people away from Hero by describing the necessity of using slide rules and supercomputers to play the game.

 

3) Hero fans could post the document when someone on a message board is posting the same crap as in Option 2.

 

4) Hero fans could post it on their websites, in an effort to let people know that Hero is not the arcane monstrosity that many seem to believe it to be.

 

A few more rules:

Obviously, I don't think that DOJ would be happy if someone was actually distributing a useable set of Rules for the Hero System. I doubt if anyone on Earth could actually do that in one page anyway, but nevertheless, before the final document gets distributed anywhere, or even posted here, I will send it to Steve Long for approval.

 

My hope is to stir up some positive interest in the system, not take away from sales of products like Sidekick.

 

The problem is, I think some gamers may be too Hero-phobic to even take a look at Sidekick, much less 5thEdRev.

 

So, by presenting the barest of bones in a format that anyone with a 5th grade education can understand, I think we may be able to bring some new members into the flock.

 

KA.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

This is a great idea!

 

I know that I am just too wordy to be good at this but I hope that others who are far better writers than I give it a shot.

 

And just to be clear, you want us to send our entries to you via PM? (so you can run it by Steve Long before posting)

 

HM

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

I might just work on something like this. My purpose wouldn't be to show others that Hero really isn't complicated, but as an aid for new players or as a hand out a demos.

 

I don't even think what would be need on such a document would even take up a whole page like you describe, but I suppose I can squeeze in a few extras.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

Oh, and while I'm thinking about this, lets turn in into a community effort.

 

What, specifically, should be on this one page document?

 

Currently I'm thinking just information needed during game play (no character creation stuff, leave that in the book as you can't even list all the Skills/Powers/Diads/etc on one page, let alone their costs and descriptions).

 

Information needed for game play could include:

 

Making a PER Roll and the effects of not being able to perceive a target with a targeting sense.

Making an Attack Roll (figuring your to-hit number and/or figuring the DCV hit based on the attack roll).

Action List (not a maneuver list, but an action list similar to the table that describes how long certain actions take)

"It's Your Phase" checklist (when your Phase starts and how many you have and what actions to perform during it, and which end it)

Doing and Taking Damage

Damage Effects (stunning, knockdown/knockback)

Keeping track of END.

 

I don't think these should be listed in this order, but I'm just tossing out ideas at this point. What else should be there?

[KA.]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

After working on my own page, and just now reading these posts, I think I have a better grasp on this.

 

1) You are welcome to PM your entry to me if you think it might have too much of DOJ's intellectual property included.

As I said, I am trying to help, not hurt, sales of products like Sidekick, so I don't want to create a free substitute.

 

2) What I am really looking for is more of an explanation of the concepts more than the actual rules. Take a look at my next post to see what I threw together over the last half hour, and you will get an idea.

 

3) Dust Raven raises a good point. Having a sheet of specifics for things like demo games would also be very handy. I think that could step on DOJ's toes, but it all depends on the content, and how they feel about it.

 

4) It may be that between my "concept overview" and Dust Raven's "Basic How-To Guide", we could come up with a quite short (2 page) document that could really give people a grasp of what Hero is, and how it works.

 

5) So it looks like we are working on two distinct one-page documents.

Page One - An overview of the general concepts of the system.

Page Two - How to perform specific, basic, in-game tasks.

 

Feel free to contribute to either page, or both.

 

I have somewhat of a handle on what I think the concept page should include, although I am looking for all possible input on what should be in there and the final format.

 

Dust Raven sounds like he has a good grasp of what should be in the "tasks" document, so if he wants to handle that page, I will happily hand that part over to him.

 

Who knows, this could be the start of a Hero revolution!

These simple pages may one day be seen as the beginning of a wave of Hero System popularity never before witnessed by mankind.

This may be the first step on the road to The Hero System finally achieving the universal acclaim that it has so long deserved!

 

At the very least, it should help kill a couple of hours before my next snack.

 

KA.

[KA.]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

This is my first draft of a one-page explanation of basic Hero concepts.

It was written late at night, after a hard day of school.

I am only posting it as an example of the kind of thing I am looking for, not because I think it actually serves the purpose.

 

KA.

 

Welcome to The Hero System. The Hero System is the property of DOJ Inc.

For Further information, please go to http://www.herogames.com

Characters in The Hero System are represented by Characteristics, Skills, Powers, and Disadvantages.

The Characteristics are:

Strength - How much you can lift, how hard you hit.

Dexterity - How coordinated and agile you are.

Constitution - How tough you are.

Body - How much damage it takes to kill you.

Intelligence - How smart/perceptive you are.

Ego - How mentally tough you are.

Presence - How charismatic/intimidating you are.

Comeliness - How physically attractive you are.

Unless you have a specific Skill or Power that applies, the way to determine if you are able to do something is to divide the appropriate characteristic by 5, add 9, then try to roll that number or less on 3 six-sided dice.

Ex. You are falling and want to grab a ledge. Your Dexterity is 15.

15 divided by 5 is 3. 3 + 9 = 12. If you roll 12 or less on 3 dice, you grab the ledge. You only have to figure this roll out when you first make the character, after that you will have it written on your sheet.

Skills: The Hero System has a long list of skills for nearly any purpose, and a very easy method for creating your own. Skill rolls are handled much like the characteristic rolls we just covered. You will have a number that tells you how good you are at that skill, and you roll 3 dice and try to get a number less than or equal to your Skill number. If you do, you succeeded.

Powers: Powers can either be a level of ability that is beyond human (like running as fast as a car), or an ability that humans are just not capable of (like flying). All powers work the same basic way. You figure out what you want to be able to do, and then you buy the appropriate power, and apply advantages (things that make the power work better) and limitations (things that make the power less powerful or less reliable) until you arrive at the exact Power you want. Ex. You want to make a Laser Pistol. An attack that does lethal damage at a distance is called a Ranged Killing Attack. You would buy the amount of this power that seemed appropriate based on what you wanted to do. Since Lasers are known for cutting through things, you might want to buy an Advantage like Armor Piercing, that would allow the Gun do damage even to targets that are protected in some way. Finally, since this is a real gun that can be lost, broken, or stolen, you would take the Focus Limitation.

Disadvantages: These are things that make the character less powerful, and more interesting to play. Things like a spouse that always has to be rescued, or a need to take a certain medication every day, or a code of honor that you follow at all times. By taking these Disadvantages, you create some possible plot lines for your character, and you get more points to build your character with.

Points: In The Hero System, your character is built on Points. Everyone is given an equal number to start with, and you can get more by taking Disadvantages. You use the points to buy the Characteristics, Skills, and Powers that you want. There are no pre-determined classes or races. If you want to be an axe-wielding barbarian wizard, or a hard-boiled Private Eye that can pick up a tank, go right ahead, it is up to you. The only limiting factors on your character are your own imagination, and what the Game Master of your game decides.

Combat: Combat in The Hero System can be as simple or as complex as your group decides. There are rules to cover things like damage to individual body parts and how tired you get from throwing a punch, but basic combat is resolved almost exactly like the Skill rolls above. Your character has a number called SPEED that determines how many times you act in a 12 second turn. A normal person has a speed of 2, a superhero could have a speed of 10 or even 12! There is a simple chart to tell you when it is your turn. When it is you decide what you want to do. Try to attack someone, or try to avoid getting hurt. If you attack, you take a number based on your Dexterity, subtract a number based on the target's Dexterity, and add 11 to the result.

If you roll that number or less on 3 d6, your attack hits.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

Feel free to contribute to either page, or both.

 

I have somewhat of a handle on what I think the concept page should include, although I am looking for all possible input on what should be in there and the final format.

 

Dust Raven sounds like he has a good grasp of what should be in the "tasks" document, so if he wants to handle that page, I will happily hand that part over to him.

Sure, I can do that.

 

It's actually something I was planning to work up anyway, but not until summer before Hexacon, but I can step it up a bit and work on it now. I'm in the middle of preparing to move into a new apartment, so I'm not sure how much time I can devote to such a task. As simple as it seems, it could take a bit of time to complete.

 

I don't know if you have or not, KA, but I can drop a line to Steve Long about submitting an official pitch for this document as a free handout, or at the vary least make sure it's something that won't step on any toes if passed around at the demos I (and others) do.

 

Who knows, this could be the start of a Hero revolution!

These simple pages may one day be seen as the beginning of a wave of Hero System popularity never before witnessed by mankind.

This may be the first step on the road to The Hero System finally achieving the universal acclaim that it has so long deserved!

 

At the very least, it should help kill a couple of hours before my next snack.

 

KA.

I don't know about a revolution, but a simple handout, while far from a complete set of rules, can work wonders for popularity. SJG does something similar, but they have a stronger, official presence at most cons than DOJ does and can keep track of where and for what functions their handouts and handed out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

You didn't say how big the paper could be. Got a sheet of A0 here somewhere...

 

I like this idea as it makes you thing about the mechanics of the system. One 'problem' to my mind is that combat rolls and skill rolls are handled differently. it would be nice to see a consistent mechanic, with all skills having the same chance to succeed: I'd like to see everything require an 11 or less, and skills use your natural abilities as a bonus or penalty, so you buy stealth for instance and the 'basic starting level' is (DEX/5)-2 (i.e. 0 for a character with a DEX of 8 to 12). With that in mind:

 

Key concepts:

Making a roll. Whenever you try to accomplish anything from an attack to driving a car to listening at a keyhole you roll 3d6 to determine if you succeed. If you get 11 OR LESS you do succeed. You can SUBTRACT any bonuses, like skill levels or helpful situational modifiers and ADD any penalties, like an opponent's defensive combat skill or hindering situational modifiers. Usually you just need to end up with 11 or less, and the degree of success does not matter UNLESS you are making an opposed roll, in which case the active character must exceed the degree of success of the defending character, or when making a complimentary skill roll, which is a related skill that may help you succeed in which case you add half the degree of success.

 

Normal dice. When you are asked to roll normal dice you roll the indicated number of six sided dice and add the total together. You obtain a second total by counting each die as value 0 if it shows a '1', value 2 if it shows a '6' and value 1 otherwise. This second total is often referred to as the BODY of the dice.

[lazarus]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

What I'd have is an explanation of how to use the character sheet in battle. Nothing about character points, or any of that. Just simple:

 

For all rolls but damage, you want to roll 3D6 and get equal to or under the number on your sheet.

 

You go in the Segments marked on your sheet. You can use a Power with one of your Maneuvers. You hit DCV = OCV - 11 + die roll (um?? Damn. can't remember).

 

You want to roll high on damage. Normal damage is the amount rolled for Stun and the number of dice body, -1 for each 1 and +1 for each 6. Killing damage is the amount shown in Body and times D6-1 (min 1) for STUN.

 

and that, I believe, is the core of the HERO system. The rest is character creation.

 

Laz

[Sean Waters]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

 

You go in the Segments marked on your sheet. You can use a Power with one of your Maneuvers. You hit DCV = OCV - 11 + die roll (um?? Damn. can't remember).

 

Laz

 

It can be confusing, can't it? Roll 3d6, add DVC and subtract OCV and the total has to be 11 or less.

 

The trouble is, stating it in that way means it is difficult to express as a formula. You could do it this way:

 

3d6 roll + DCV <= 11 +OCV

 

That just doesn't look good to me. The problem with doing it this way is that it is not straightforward to say what DCV you hit. You could re-arrange it further....

 

DCV <= 11 +OCV-3d6

 

This involves subtraction though and possibly (in supers games) the use of negative numbers.

 

The chances of getting an 11 or less are 62.5%, the exact same chance of getting 10 or more, so you could do it this way instead:

 

3d6 + OCV => DCV + 10. Exact same result, probability wise but it just looks so much easier to do, doesn't it?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

One 'problem' to my mind is that combat rolls and skill rolls are handled differently. it would be nice to see a consistent mechanic' date=' with all skills having the same chance to succeed: I'd like to see everything require an 11 or less[/quote']Really, this is how it is already. You can say, "All other things being equal, you need an 11- roll to succeed at a task." An person with an average CHA and no skill bonuses has an 11- roll with skills based on that CHA. A person in combat with an opponent of equal ability has an 11- chance to hit them.

 

I would sum up the dice rolling in the HERO System this way:

 

"The vast majority of die rolls in the HERO System fall into two categories: Rolls that determine whether you succeeded at an action (such as programming a computer or striking a foe), and rolls that determine the amount of effect that some action had (such as how much damage a punch caused). Task resolution rolls are made on 3d6, and you're trying to roll low (below a number that represents your ability with a given skill or chance to strike a certain foe). The effect rolls are made on a variable number of d6 (based on the effect in question), and you want to roll high (higher roll=more effect)."

[RDU Neil]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

It can be confusing, can't it? Roll 3d6, add DVC and subtract OCV and the total has to be 11 or less.

 

The trouble is, stating it in that way means it is difficult to express as a formula. You could do it this way:

 

3d6 roll + DCV <= 11 +OCV

 

That just doesn't look good to me. The problem with doing it this way is that it is not straightforward to say what DCV you hit. You could re-arrange it further....

 

DCV <= 11 +OCV-3d6

 

This involves subtraction though and possibly (in supers games) the use of negative numbers.

 

The chances of getting an 11 or less are 62.5%, the exact same chance of getting 10 or more, so you could do it this way instead:

 

3d6 + OCV => DCV + 10. Exact same result, probability wise but it just looks so much easier to do, doesn't it?

 

(11 + OCV + any mods) - 3d6 = DCV Hit

 

or "OCV minus what you roll is what you hit"

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

The Characteristics are:

Strength - How much you can lift, how hard you hit.

Dexterity - How coordinated and agile you are.

Constitution - How tough you are.

Body - How much damage it takes to kill you.

Intelligence - How smart/perceptive you are.

Ego - How mentally tough you are.

Presence - How charismatic/intimidating you are.

Comeliness - How physically attractive you are.

 

I don't know if you need this. I'm not sure if you even need to list the characteristics, but you definitely don't need their descriptions. That's a lot of space on one page that could be used for other things. Every RPG has a STRength score (I know not every single one, but most). People who understand what an RPG is understand what a characteristic is, I'd assume. So use this space for more convincing and simplifying.

 

My $.02

[KA.]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

I don't know if you need this. I'm not sure if you even need to list the characteristics, but you definitely don't need their descriptions. That's a lot of space on one page that could be used for other things. Every RPG has a STRength score (I know not every single one, but most). People who understand what an RPG is understand what a characteristic is, I'd assume. So use this space for more convincing and simplifying.

 

My $.02

 

You know, you may be right. Like I said, that was my first whack at this. I may condense it down to a couple of sentances describing the general way characteristics work.

 

KA.

[Frenchman]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

This is great, I'm sure I'll end up using it to introduce some of the people I know to the system.

 

If you attack, you take a number based on your Dexterity, subtract a number based on the target's Dexterity, and add 9 to the result.

If you roll that number or less on 3 d6, your attack hits.

One little nitpicky problem, though... shouldn't you add 11, not 9, to determine your target number for an attack roll?

[GaryB]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

3d6 + OCV => DCV + 10. Exact same result, probability wise but it just looks so much easier to do, doesn't it?

 

Yes. Why any subtraction is needed is beyond me. Though if you want to print it down:

 

OCV + 3d6 vs DCV + 10

[Dust Raven]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

3d6 + OCV => DCV + 10. Exact same result' date=' probability wise but it just looks so much easier to do, doesn't it?[/quote']

That's not the same equation though. The two used in the rules are "11+OCV-DCV=Target Number on 3d6" or "11+OCV-3D6=DCV Hit" Your equation does not match either of these. Sure looks smoother though.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

That's not the same equation though. The two used in the rules are "11+OCV-DCV=Target Number on 3d6" or "11+OCV-3D6=DCV Hit" Your equation does not match either of these. Sure looks smoother though.

Well it is a D20'ism application of the normal HERO equation in that it rewards HIGH rolls to hit. Just proving that other good names for TRL are Captain Contradiction and Flip-Flopper!

 

HM

[Alkai]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

I think that this is an excellent idea. I am looking forward to reading the entries!

 

I am new to 5er, which I just got in December. Played Champions back in the early 90s, and do remember a bit about it.

 

Mentioned Hero to my gaming buddies. They marveled at the size of 5er, but to my great disappointment did not have the enthusiasm I expected of them. Maybe it's because they are still wrapped up in d20.

 

I'm sure they'll agree to play eventually, but a single sheet serving as an introduction might just do the trick to get them a bit more motivated.

[KA.]

Re: Challenge! The Hero System in One Page!

 

This is great, I'm sure I'll end up using it to introduce some of the people I know to the system.

 

 

One little nitpicky problem, though... shouldn't you add 11, not 9, to determine your target number for an attack roll?

 

Quite right. I was going back and forth between combat and characteristics.

I will fix it now.

 

Thanks,

 

KA.