Building bridges

[TaxiMan]

OK, so Entangle can make walls but you have to use Transform to make a bridge. A character has telekinesis, and would like to be able to rapidly build earthen / rocky bridges from nearby materials (the ground, in case you don't get the idea).

 

Seems like a simple thing, but how do you do it? Is piling up dirt a cosmetic transform or a minor one? How much TK do you need to make a bridge across a 10' wide chasm? What about a 50' wide chasm? Do you need the Engineering skill if you expect it to hang around (I'd vote yes)? If you continue to pay END, maybe you DON'T need Engineering (again, I'd vote yes)?

 

This must have been done thousands of times, how do y'all handle it?

[TheEmerged]

Personally? Ignore the "you have to use Transform to make a bridge" thing. To me this violates Rule 1 of HERO -- Never get hung up on the "right" way to do anything.

 

Rule Zero being one shared with most system, that the GM has the freedom to ignore or create rules as s/he sees fit as long as s/he is consistent & fair, and the players are having fun.

 

I've used the following in the past:

 

Force Wall linked with TK (since FW has no cause/effect), with the strength of the TK determining how much it can hold.

 

Summon, with the cost of the "bridge" based loosely on the base and vehicle rules. It would have Body, DEF, and Size but little movement...

 

Stretching (best for short bridges, gets too expensive for long ones) and Shape Shift -- under 4th Edition, anyway, can still work thematically under 5th

 

I'd also make a case you can probably use Change Environment with the STR adder too, although it strikes me as being over-costed for the actual usefulness.

[TaxiMan]

Yeah, I agree with you re: Rule Zero. I'm making a new character with TK, and want a multipower of "TK Tricks" when this question came up. I was a tiny bit irked that I'm supposed to use Transform, but there is nothing in 5th to help me do that!

 

Entangle leaves something behind (permanent) - seems like a bridge should stay around too. It has a size limit based on cost, which I like. If I can't get a good "Transform" answer, I'm going to abuse Entangle and let it make bridges. The Power / Engineering roll is required with -1 / 1" of bridge, modified for the material (long steel girders = +100 (hah!), loose sand = -100 etc.). That's after END stops being paid - TK can hold the bridge by itself if it has to.

[Old Man]

The rules say you can't use Entangles to make bridges??

[TaxiMan]

Yup. Explicitly. Pretty weird, you ask me.

[TheEmerged]

Yeah, it's one of a series of "explicit no-no's" in FREd, every one of which I ignore (biggest offender being the "no light from Change Environment", IMO).

 

FREd page 109, column B.

"Characters cannot use Entangle to create objects other than barriers (such as bridges, braces, or stairs); to do that, use Transform."

 

It almost goes without saying that "cannot" in HERO is really code-speak for, "without an appropriate advantage or skill use". Creating other forms than barriers with Entangle would be an excellent example of Power, for example.

[BobGreenwade]

I, too, would ignore the "no bridges from Entangle" rule, counting the bridge as a form of barrier (unless using the Create Object Power from one of Steve's HEROglyphs columns -- DH#7, I think).

 

Build a bridge using Entangle, Area Of Effect (Line; +1), Only To Form Barriers (-1). The Limitation could also be expanded to Only To Form Bridges (-1 1/2), and another Limitation, Only From Available Materials (-1/2), could also be added. The bridge would be able to easily hold things with STR equal to its DEF x 5; any weight above that does damage to the bridge each Turn, equal to the STR needed to hold the excess weight.

 

That's my take. I find it much easier and better defined than trying to kludge together the DEF from a Transform (which could technically be as high as the player wants it to be).

[jtelson]

It never occured to me to use entangle to make a bridge, especially if the effect were telekinesis. For enduring effects, I'm not certain that a limitation laden entangle power is any less articulate than transform. For temporary effects, I've always used Force Wall. Although I suppose you could just as easily use a 'gate' version of teleportion or flight to simulate a temporary bridge.

[Talon]

The advantages of using Entangle are:

 

1) There are defined rules for the size of the bridge;

 

2) There are defined rules for the DEF/BODY of the bridge.

 

With Transform, you just have to hand-wave all that to a large extent.

 

If I were being fully kosher (it being Passover and all), I might require a +10 Adder "Can Build Bridges" for Entangle; otherwise, the Entangle material is assumed to lack the structual integrity needed to support itself and make a bridge.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

If I were being fully kosher (it being Passover and all), I might require a +10 Adder "Can Build Bridges" for Entangle; otherwise, the Entangle material is assumed to lack the structual integrity needed to support itself and make a bridge.

 

Now that makes sense.

[TaxiMan]

Excellent idea Geoff Speare! (weird putting a name there instead of a handle!) Another one to add to my short list of Hero "improvements".