Using the toolkit to build a different game!

[zornwil]

Not a professional-release game (unless it's really good...) but for my "cyber ninja pirates in space" game, I think I will "force" myself to create a new ruleset which is entirely built on HERO in such a way that the players can very easily pick it up but so that it is abstracted and a "beer and pretzels" game.

 

And I will also use this as a test of the ideas RDU Neil and others and I have batted around. I will start with explicit Axioms (obviously the foremost will simply be "Must use HERO as he basis for all rules and mechanics"). Then I will build a set of basic mechanics. Then I will build rules and guidelines.

 

And then we'll see how the play experience is. Depending on that, redo the process to get it right, or junk it and use HERO...

 

Wish me luck! I will detail my progress in this thread. Expect it to be slow, though, as it's one of many irons in the fire. But I do want to challenge myself to make it simple...

 

I drafted the above earlier and already have a little progress.

 

HERO toolkit being the basis, the following are core prejudices/axioms for the system: broad capabilities in wide areas but very specific specialties for people - i.e., "signatures" for characters, easy resolution, fudgey GM-oriented judgement call opportunity, opportunity for high drama at unpredictable moments, Characters should be able to be exemplary in a declared area but very competent in general! Characters will be rewarded for playing foibles, they should be encouraged. The Play Experience should be more shared in story-telling; GM can make wide judgement calls as aforementioned BUT players will/should have opportunities to dramatically influence game. Basic characters in general should be very similar in terms of damage they can take and "physiological" aspects, which really just means simplicity in character builds.

 

Here's what I'm going to do as an essential mechanic: characters have scores in various Skill Areas - Agility, Background, Contact, Intellect, Interaction, and Martial Arts. A Skill Area is essentially a broad area of endeavor and you get the same sort of success roll as in HERO in that area. It's just a lot broader. You declare Specialties in a Skill Area and get bonuses with those - they can be all sorts of things, I will make a guidelnes list, but basically things like Friendliness (for Interaction), Overpowering Nature (again for Interaction), Brute Force (for Combat), Quick-witted (Interaction or Combat), Pretty (Interaction), Willpower (Interaction), and so on (sorry this is an Interactions-heavy list, but just to get the idea down). Basically characters must have a Major Specialty and I will set something up for minor specialties (smaller bonuses). Specialty Skill Areas can be created with GM permission, such as a Mental Skill Area.

 

Each Skill Area will apply to various Classes. Standard Classes are Sentients (basically characters to reasonably aware animals), Lower Beings (non-sentient animals, bio-organisms), Environment (space, desert, planet, city), Vehicle/Mecha, and Cyberspace. For each Skill Area you can assign points to each Class. Specialty Classes (such as "Godlike Beings") can be created with GM permission and may exist in the background. Or something like that, I have to think more about it!

 

Characters will be able to have some sort of singular Power, which I'll give more thought to, but that's the basic idea. Perhaps "minor powers" will be supported...but maybe not. Anyway, you can put no or some points into having a power. If you put some points, you are buying the points per some dice of effect, some standard such as 5/1d6, will be thinking on game effects. Now, here's a concept - you can buy "Coolness Points" per dice of effect as well. These Coolness Points entirely replace the Advantages idea but they are based wholly on Advantages! Essentially, during a session, you can expend Coolness Points to make the Power do something special/extraordinary - some sliding scale, such as minor benefit = 1 Coolness, power is half again as effective = 3 Coolness, double effectivness = 5 Coolness, more than double but not quite a "trump" = 8 Coolness, and "power trumps the situation" = 10 Coolness. Note you must buy Coolness multiplicative to the level of the power because of its effectiveness - for example if Powers = 5/1d6, you pay Coolness PER DICE, so a 3d6 Power must cost either 3, 6, 9, or another multiple of 3 in Coolness, according to how many dice - e.g., 1 Coolness per Dice = 6/1d6, 2 Coolness per Dice = 7/1d6, and so on.

 

Powers require some more thought, but probably want some sort of basic set with the ability to create them with guidelines, all based on the HERO system as I understand it.

 

Comments will be entirely welcome!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Using the toolkit to build a different game!

 

It sounds like you are trying to take some of the crunchiness out of the loop and make character creation and and advancement simpler by way of a custom "PREFAB-HERO". Sounds like an excellent idea that promises to be an extreme amount of work for you.

 

Good Luck.

 

HM

[zornwil]

Re: Using the toolkit to build a different game!

 

Thx, it'll be interesting, I think it will actually create more work in character design than the rules design itself, in general. Although if written as a professional system, then it would have to be more thoroughly explicated. Hmm, maybe that makes more sense if I explain my current progress, here's where I am as of this evening:

 

There are now 8 "Skill Areas" although I might need to rename that or just rename the couple extras I added - anyway, added Movement and Perception. They allow for all the PER check stuff of course for Perception, while Movement is a little different as it will reflect actual movement capability.

 

Here's some rules sketched out now:

 

A Skill Area in a Class dictates resolution in any situation which has no otherwise obvious conclusion. The GM determines what sort of Skill Area and Class would be used according to the situation and what action the PC takes. For example, if the PC says "I'll bash the control panel with the idea of stopping the ship!" the GM will likely declare this a Combat Skill Area in the Vehicle/Mecha Class as the PC is simply "bashing", not doing any actual analysis or tinkering. So the PC's Combat vs Vehicle/Mecha Skill Area Rating is used to derive his Base Roll for that. His Base Roll equals nine (9) plus the result of the Skill Area Rating divided by five (5). So a character with a Skill Area Rating of 5 in Combat in Vehicle/Mecha has a Base Roll of 10.*

Note that if the action is directly against another character's skill, the situation is now resolved according to a Skill vs Skill Roll.**

Each Skill Area (NOT by Class) may have one Major Specialty Skill (MSS) and as many minor Specialty Skills (mSS) as desired. An MSS gives the character a great bonus in execution; a minor Specialty Skill creates a smaller bonus, and even smaller still according to how many mSSes there are An MSS' Base Roll is determined according to nine (9) plus the Skill Area Rating divided by two (2) - so an MSS under a Skill Area with a Rating of 20 would have a Base Roll of 19.*

For mSSes, the character receives a Base Roll Bonus Pool of nine (9) plus the result of the Skill Area Rating divided by five (5). That Bonus Pool indicates the bonuses to the Base Roll for all of the mSSes the character has. If the character has only one mSS, the "Bonus Pool" is no longer a pool and instead simply a total bonus to his Base Roll. If the character has two mSSes, the Bonus Pool may be apportioned in any fashion among those on a permanent basis. For example, if a character has 3 mSSes and a Bonus pool of 9, one mSS may have a Base Roll Bonus of 4, one may have a Base Roll Bonus of 3, and the other a Base Roll Bonus of 2. Note that a minor Specialty Skill Base Roll may never be greater than the Major Specialty Skill Base Roll minus two (2)!

 

One mSS is free; each x2 mSS costs 1 CP.

 

I know I will incorporate STUN, BODY, and a basic DEF (no PD/ED, just a lump characteristic). Hope to maintain same costs as in HERO if I can balance all above.

 

Note that Perks will become Background Skills - so you could have an MSS just in Contacts or a special very important position lumping together some Perks.

 

I'm thinking of handling those Talents sorts of abilities that are simple "can or can't do" things (Bump of Direction, Perfect Pitch, and so on) as some variant on mSSes. The idea is you buy them for the flat cost of mSSes (x2 = 1 CP) but you get a flat Base Roll and, except for unusual circumstances, roll against a base that you would normally succeed with. Something like that - but yes, it will mean Talents may not be total absolutes.

 

I'm thinking that Powers will be very simple. I will create a series of presets as guidelines, but the basic rule will be that you can either buy a Defense (1/1 CP), an Attack (1d6/5 CP), Body-Affecting (1d6/15 CP), or Adjustment (1d6/10 CP) power (all costs tentative). I'm thinking that powers will be by default via a Focus with no special cost break, but it will cost MORE for an Inherent/Cybernetic (implanted) power just given how the game/genre should work.

 

Defense power is simple, it just adds to DEF.

 

Attack power is also simple this goes against DEF and targets STUN and BODY.

 

Adjustment power is very basic. You purchase it to affect a given Skill Area or Power and to add or subtract. If you hit, you roll, that's the effect. It must be defined to have something that offsets it.

 

Body-Affecting will incorporate the destruction of Skill Area or Power points or such things. Not sure if this will bleed to be the default for all Killing Attacks, but possibly. You would buy it and declare what it targets - BODY, Skill Area, or Power basically. Will be thinking it through more.

 

Powers will be setting-dependent.

 

Powers might have "Inhibitors" which could be used to pay for Coolness Points. Same idea as Limitations but are just subtracted from the CP per level. Never can be less than 1 CP per level of course.

 

Will have some sort of Foibles/Disads thing, not done.

 

Combat - here will be lots more streamlining and generalizing, EXCEPT where we will get into Martial Arts and the like - so I will be looking at how to incorporate some Ninja HERO flavor. Anyway, only thing decided currently is that there's no SPD/all characters are the same SPD. There will be an Initiative system. Initiative is determined by what kind of action and situation it is. If your action is Combat-oriented, then use the Combat SKill Area Rating. If your action is Interaction-oriented (say a PRE attack), then use the Interaction Skill Area Rating. Big bonus here for Martial Artists - when performing MA stuff, add +10 or such to the Martial Arts Skill Area Rating (NB - see costs being developed below). For Initiative, thinking PCs get some boost like +5, "Red Shirt" thugs get a FLAT Initiative of 0, regular bad guys get no demerit or bonus, and some sort of "Major Nemesis" gets something like +10 and an Extra Actio or such. Should lead to very lively dramatic combat, particularly as one's specialty can define their Initiative opportunity!

 

Developing some cost ideas. Below is a chart of the normal base values for PCs for each Skill Area Rating by Class. This would be where they start and would buy values up from here. Something like:

 

	Sentients	Lower Beings	Environment	Vehicle/Mecha	Cyberspace
Agility	10	15	0	0	0
Background	5	1	0	0	0
Combat	10	10	0	0	0
Intellect	10	5	0	0	0
Interaction	10	1	0	0	0
Martial Arts	0	0	0	0	0
Movement	0	0	10	5	0
Perception	10	5	10	0	0

 

Then you buy up at a rate per 1 Skill Area Rating of the cost in CP in the chart below (again, something like):

 

	Sentients	Lower Beings	Environment	Vehicle/Mecha	Cyberspace
Agility	2	1	1	2	1
Background	1	1	1	1	2
Combat	2	1	1	2	2
Intellect	2	1	1	1	2
Interaction	2	1	1	1	2
Martial Arts	3	2	1	1	1
Movement	1	1	1	1	1
Perception	1	1	1	1	1

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Using the toolkit to build a different game!

 

Have you thought what the character sheet will look like?

 

I think that some of the game mechanic design could become clearer if you knew how it would look to the players. Sketch it out on a piece of paper and you'll see the things that the players need to know and what they don't need to know.

 

Think about the things you want to allow players to change - then everything else (from the HERO palette) can be fixed values.

 

It is important right from the start to have a clear idea of where there needs to be detail and where there doesn't.

 

 

Doc

[zornwil]

Re: Using the toolkit to build a different game!

 

Have you thought what the character sheet will look like?

 

I think that some of the game mechanic design could become clearer if you knew how it would look to the players. Sketch it out on a piece of paper and you'll see the things that the players need to know and what they don't need to know.

 

Think about the things you want to allow players to change - then everything else (from the HERO palette) can be fixed values.

 

It is important right from the start to have a clear idea of where there needs to be detail and where there doesn't.

 

 

Doc

 

The way I'm addressing this at this point is more from three angles:

- one, establishing a clear idea of what the core values will be, and, for that definition, clarifying what the genre will be like, which isn't well spelt-out above but is in my head

- using HERO as a sort of checklist of features, ensuring I cover the same areas

- iteratively working through the mechanics, the "HERO checklist", and the axioms

 

I think I need, of these 3 bullets, #1 finished before I can really work on the character sheet, and #2 can be bounced against a character sheet to see if anything important is missed. I'm thinking more in terms of how to create the fluidity and simplicity in a genre-specific way as a key component, so I tend to be working from the end of how to simplify what's in HERO in this fashion against what should be on a complete character sheet.

 

Right now I conceive the character sheet to have the Skill Area Ratings as with the chart above, so a character might end up with something like this if they are concentrating on Cybernetics:

 

	Sentients	Lower Beings	Environment	Vehicle/Mecha	Cyberspace
Agility	15	5	0	10	20
- Base Roll	12/less	10/less	9/less	11/less	13/less
- MSS:  Sleight of Hand	17/less	15/less	14/less	16/less	18/less
- mSS:  Hiding Things	15/less	11/less	9/less	13/less	16/less
Background	15	1	10	20	30
- Base Roll	12/less	9/less	11/less	13/less	15/less
- MSS:  Hacker	17/less	14/less	16/less	18/less	20/less
- mSS:  Well-Connected	14/less	9/less	12/less	16/less	18/less
- mSS:  Psychologist	13/less	9/less	12/less	14/less	18/less
Combat	10	10	0	0	30
- Base Roll	11/less	11/less	9/less	9/less	15/less
- MSS:  Hacker	16/less	16/less	14/less	14/less	20/less
- mSS:  Lazer Pistols	13/less	13/less	9/less	9/less	18/less
Intellect	10	0	0	0	20
- Base Roll	11/less	9/less	9/less	9/less	13/less
- MSS:  Hacker	16/less	14/less	14/less	14/less	18/less
- mSS:  Psychologist	11/less	9/less	9/less	9/less	14/less
- mSS:  Computer Repair	13/less	9/less	9/less	9/less	16/less
Interaction	10	1	0	0	10
- Base Roll	11/less	9/less	9/less	9/less	11/less
- MSS:  Disguise/Acting	16/less	14/less	14/less	14/less	16/less
- mSS:  Confidence	13/less	9/less	9/less	9/less	13/less
Martial Arts	0	0	0	0	0
- Base Roll	9/less	9/less	9/less	9/less	9/less
Movement	0	0	10	5	20
- Base Inches	0	0	5"	3"	10"
- MSS:  Cyberport	0	0	10"	8"	15"
- mSS:  Running	0	0	6"	3"	12"
- mSS:  Flight	0	0	6"	4"	12"
Perception	10	5	10	0	20
- Base Roll	11/less	10/less	11/less	9/less	13/less
- MSS:  Keen sight	16/less	15/less	16/less	14/less	18/less
- mSS:  Danger	13/less	11/less	13/less	9/less	16/less

 

Then a list of basics:

 

BODY: 15

STUN: 40

END: 36

DEF: 5

 

Then their (likely sole) power:

 

Energy Whip: 2d6 Body-Affecting (Destroys BODY) + Attack, 3 Coolness/Level, Total Cost 46: SFX = micro-thin corridor of energy the character uses like a whip

 

Equipment:

 

Light Saber: 3d6 Body-Affecting (Destroys BODY) + Attack

Lightsuit: 5 DEF

 

Disads:

 

Cyber-leg: buggy, acts up and impairs physical movement, once per session

Talking parrot: embarrasses character, 50% chance per session

 

-----------------

 

Something like this...

[Tim's evil Twin]

Re: Using the toolkit to build a different game!

 

The broad area / subspecialty sounds something like the system used by the d6 Star Wars and the one used by Space: 1889.

[zornwil]

Re: Using the toolkit to build a different game!

 

Update.

 

The idea of a matrixed Skill Area against Class has been scrapped. I decided it created too much complexity for the idea of this game and demanded too great a granularity as well. The Skill Areas have instead been expanded to include Cyberspace, Technology, and Vehicles.

 

Cheese Points can be used to offset the cost of Coolness Points, but this analogue to Limitations is GM-determined or possibly randomly-determined!

 

I've been working recently through the inventory of Skills, Talents, Perks, Powers, and Disads and comparing, getting to see how things align.

 

I've decided Talents will exist as such.

 

Combat will be dynamic, and Initiative is called off, but players may take just a Half Phase action and then Hold. Attacks do not end the phase. Not sure about how Aborts will work, but probably such as allowing Aborts to happen at something like up to Initiative+10 or similar.

 

I believe there will be DEF and Hardened DEF at this point, but just that.

 

Note the costs above are way preliminary, particularly now that you purchase Skill Area Ratings for more broad than a context of a Class. I will go through and do HERO comparisons for cost.

 

Note that Skill "Specialties" will be fairly broad compared to HERO as the idea is to be very competent in broad areas. By the way, you can take MSSes or mSSEs in multiple Skill Areas; so doing will simply make your application of the Skill Specialty more broad, more applicable to many areas. For example, if you take "Doctor" as an MSS in Background (more on Backgrounds and Skill Specialties in a bit) as well as Intellect, you have the benefits of being associated with the (e.g.) Intergalactic Red Cross, a University education, abilities on the business side of being a doctor, and other background sorts of abilities, as well as what you would get in Intellect, which means the actual treatment and doing surgery and all that.

 

As you'd think, though, Background is a bit different than other Skill Areas. You build Background based on your character's actual back story. You obtain a single MSS to represent a dominant theme/"centering" of your life. The Doctor example above is a profession-dominated one, but they don't have to be. I'm picturing, for example, "Star Drifter" as a potential MSS Background, and you'd get chances of having visited various places and knowing a smattering of the local culture.

 

But Background also allows you to build the mSSes to represent the various interests and connections built up in your life. Unlike other Skill Areas, you'll get a series of mSSes for "free", all built around a simple "Life Interview" - where did you grow up (city/area mSS), what did your family do (contact/resource mSSes), what mundane jobs you did (professional ability mSS), and so on.

[CourtFool]

Zornwil = the new heretic

 

You obviously have too much time on your hands since you lost your nemesis.

[zornwil]

Re: Zornwil = the new heretic

 

You obviously have too much time on your hands since you lost your nemesis.

Yeah, but I hear keyes_bill is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest!

 

Or not...

 

BTW, I like the title on your post, I might steal that for a bit...

[zornwil]

Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

In a galaxy a far way away and a long time from now…

 

The Empire had been around as long as anyone really knew. For tens of thousands of years, it had persisted and grown. Humanity had continually taken over the small, barely-developed races, and, despite fluctuations in the fortunes of the Empire, humankind stretched across the remote galaxy until it dominated the spiral system known as Lactaia.

 

But in a sparsely populated outer portion of a spiral the Empire encountered the Myrmesims, or “Myrms’. These strange insect-like beings were apparently from another galaxy – or perhaps another dimension – and only recently migrated to Lactaia. They resisted the Imperial encroachment, at first merely with self-defense, but soon the situation escalated to all-out war.

 

The so-called Greatest War lasted for generations, even for thousands of years, and was perhaps one of the strangest wars the Empire ever fought. The Myrms merely assimilated Human homeworlds one by one, taking years to settle each but seemingly unbeatable. The Empire won an occasional battle, but only through massive brute force and planet by planet the war was being lost. Soon, the Myrmesims had taken over an entire spiral, moving in their ever-so-slow but seemingly unbeatable fashion.

 

While the situation ensured the cohesion of the Empire and, ultimately, the power of the Emperor’s office, it exhausted the abilities of both the Myrms and their opponents. The balance of power seemed to shift as Humans were joined by another new race, the Federated Mon’dabi, the lizard-like race that had just migrated to Lactaia. New technology, new ideas, and just plain “new blood†infused the Humans with tide-turning abilities. While not dramatic in timing, the Myrms were gradually forced back to the outer rim of the Power Spiral (so-called for its richness in important energy fuel crystals).

 

And then came The Scourge.

 

The Scourge was an event that tore apart the Empire and forced the retreat of the Myrmesims. The Hiksus – whom the Mon’dabi had retreated from – came to Lactaia and, in their merciless fashion, moved through in the feeding frenzy they are dreaded for. These strange beings, with the ability to move through space (without aid of technology) and appear as anything, moved through the Empire and the Myrms with devastating effect. They laid waste to entire populations, feeding on every organic form in their way.

 

As the Hiksus (mostly) vacated Lactaia, the internecine wars among the Myrmesims and Empire along with the devastating effects of The Scourge left a shattered galaxy. The power of the Empire had crumbled completely in the ensuing anarchy. While the Mon’dabi were a relatively compliant race, seeking only a peaceful and stable place to live, they had found kinship among the ‘outer races†of the Empire, and their influence (due to their earlier successes against the Myrms) and social status promoted others to agitate for a better place in Imperial society. Worse for the Empire, the technologies which allowed effective fighting against the Myrms and then, finally, survival against the Hiksus promoted unprecedented levels of individual power. Among those technologies included the new sentient automatons, the “Robot Raceâ€, which rose up in the Robot Rebellion as this “race†realized its self-interests and the divergence from human concerns. The shift of power on all levels in the Empire and the devastation of the civilized worlds created a whole new paradigm…

 

A paradigm which was symbolized when the “Trader Prince†(or as the last Emperor called him “bastard pirateâ€) Cselos conquered Humar, the center of Lactaia and the Empire, and unseated the last Emperor, Carlas the 28th. Cselos accomplished the unthinkable with 7 ships against the vast Ultra-Base Supra-Net, a network of thousands of orbital (solar and lunar) bases providing a sort of web-like defense around the Empire’s central planets and base of power. Not only that, but he defeated the remaining available Imperial Fleet, some 30 ships from the division that faced him, and then he and his crew of some 150-200 landed and seized the capital against thousands of Imperial Marines.

 

Cselos was the premier Trader Prince among the mercenary/pirate class which had arisen to brave the dangers of interstellar trade during the end of The Scourge and the recovery period. But he was far from the only one. He encouraged the power of other Trader Princes, forming a “Mercantilist Confederacy†which briefly (and miserably) filled the void left by the demise of the Empire.

 

Emperor Carlas the 28th is reputed to have said, shortly before his death in battle, “Civilization is over. The barbarians are at the gate. And all that is left is the rule of the light saber. It is preferable to The Scourge only because we die faster.â€

 

He was right.

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

At thsi point, I've got a bunch of raw notes, and the next step is pulling those together into the coherent system. Still much work, but a lot has been accomplished as I've just completed a survey of directly-relevant HERO literature (including some I hadn't read yet, though of course browsed for relevant material rather than read cover-to-cover), having used not only the core rules but Dark Champions, Star Hero, Cyber Hero (4th ed. since 5th isn't out yet), Terran Empire, Spacer's Toolkit, The Ultimate Vehicle, and Ninja Hero. I've also glanced at Savage Worlds and FUDGE for some additional concepts, though not so much rules directly, as the intent is to use HERO as the rules basis, but those rulebooks have important similarities in incorporating build mechanics directly with the kind of loose action I ultimately want in CNP (I've decided to settle on the acronym "Cyber Ninja Pirates" for the game and drop the "in Space" for the acronym, though not from the fully written title).

 

Direct next step is to finalize several fundamental, important mechanics, including vehicle rules, powers (both availability and construction, to the degree this system will allow that), skill usage, and combat. Then there will be a step of costing. Much of this should happen Sunday evening here (given I'm way screwed up on sleep from a long night out in Nuremberg and then a rather screwed-up trip to the hotel involving much walking after much walking the prior evening and it's now going on 4:30 AM), so we're not talking a long time.

 

The game will be in a playable but rough stage shortly after that. "Playtesting" (I put it in quotes since really it'll be playing for fun but seeing how this works, there's no commercial imperative) should be possible then. In parallel, much work will be done to write this out in a fashion compatible with HERO products to some degree.

 

Then, basically, there's one of 3.5 scenarios:

 

1.a - much work to be done, continued refinement, but the system appears a go, only more tweaking will tell

1.b - some refinement to be done but it does seem a go (but like 1.a, there's uncertainty until refinements are done)

 

2 - system is basically a go, period, very little tweaking/refinement, at least for a v1.0 product

 

3 - trash the system, it sucks, use HERO or Savage Worlds instead

 

In scenarios 1 and 2, though 1 means it'll be a ways out and still uncertain to some degree as to whether it gets that far, I will write this game up formally, probably borrowing much of HERO's formatting. In the event that this game seems very enjoyable and useful, I may give it to hERO as a free product for the site, if they're interested. If for some reason it turns out wildly amazingly great and reasonably novel, I suppose I could discuss a real commercial product with HERO - it will borrow from HERO too heavily (deliberately) to be offered otherwise, unless, of course, I completely rewrote the engine, which makes no sense, really. But given I'm posting work here that sort of invalidates, potentially, such an approach anyway. And I'm not doing it for that reason, but it is a good experience, regardless, in really using HERO as a toolkit, albeit without, as there should be, a true core document spelling out HERO's own underlying engine, but the latter won't happen in the near future and in the meantime the existing tooklit is certainly useful.

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

By the way, it kind of bugs me that Savage Worlds and I arrived at a similar movement system independently just because everyone will assume that I got it from SW. Nay, the way I arrived was different. I basically wanted to eliminate Characteristics as such and have Skill Areas, basing lots of the system around HERO's skill system, but much broader. So I base Movement on a Skill Area instead, but it's the same as SW, basically, in that you make a roll to increase beyond the base of 6" (in combat, 12" full move).

 

But my system's better ( ) - since you're making a Skill Roll to go faster, you go as many inches as you succeed by, BUT you go SLOWER by as many inches as you fail by!

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

Okay, so now have a break-through to represent the APPROPRIATE flavor - Ch'i Energy Gems! I can get those from the bead store in various types and good quantity, and they will function along the lines of Luck and various Luck Chips schemas.

 

Also, I realized just how broad the idea of this game is in terms of characters being really good in general as opposed to discrete areas, and this can't just be Skills into Skill Areas. Many Talents will get lumped together (Absolute Range + Absolute Time + Lightning Calculator, as an example, basically representing that sort of savant brilliance linking mathematical and time/space properties)

 

Lots getting done while waiting for page downloads, since I'm on dial-up.

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

One important point - in order to create a game system with flavor embedded and with many genre rules in place, the way this project is ending up it won't look so much like HERO, really. It will be pretty easily playable by someone with a HERO background, and in fact borrows a lot from HERO source books, but in the end I wonder how good this project will stand as a HERO-derived one? I guess it depends on one's perspective. Put ismply the game won't be HERO, it'll probably feel like some sort of hybird of HERO with other systems, which it really isn't so much, but the embedding of genre and other gaming innovations that are represented in other products will certainly make it look that way.

 

I've started costing comparisons/builds, that's a challenge already as the key concept of Skill Areas and the essential elimination of characteristics as such is a key departure, but one which certainly makes this a beer-and-rpretzel game as desired. I will say that if you actually review how Skill Areas work it is very clear this game is HERO-derived, though, and not from Savage Worlds or FUDGE despite some passing resemblances owing to necessarily similar concepts.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

One important point - in order to create a game system with flavor embedded and with many genre rules in place, the way this project is ending up it won't look so much like HERO, really. It will be pretty easily playable by someone with a HERO background, and in fact borrows a lot from HERO source books, but in the end I wonder how good this project will stand as a HERO-derived one? I guess it depends on one's perspective. Put ismply the game won't be HERO, it'll probably feel like some sort of hybird of HERO with other systems, which it really isn't so much, but the embedding of genre and other gaming innovations that are represented in other products will certainly make it look that way.

 

I've started costing comparisons/builds, that's a challenge already as the key concept of Skill Areas and the essential elimination of characteristics as such is a key departure, but one which certainly makes this a beer-and-rpretzel game as desired. I will say that if you actually review how Skill Areas work it is very clear this game is HERO-derived, though, and not from Savage Worlds or FUDGE despite some passing resemblances owing to necessarily similar concepts.

 

That's what I'd expect - something that heps you play the game and emulate the genre - not something that necessarily looks like HERO.

 

If you wanted a HERO tie in then I think you'd put a document on the web that ran through the HERO decisions you made to get the game to emulaet the desired genre. People with the toolkit could then decide whether they wanted to use those same decisions or whether they wanted to tweak Cyber-Pirates in a different direction to get something they wanted out of the game that you didn't want or simply didn't think of.

 

 

Doc

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

Cool. Just wanted to set expectations. Though I did expect it would look a little more HERO-like than it is, I guess, but to your point, you nailed the essential thing of it as it turns out.

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

Okay, time for an update. This is all about skills, which are truly the heart of the system. Please pardon the drafty nature, particularly as it peters out. I started developing the content, then paused to really spend time on costing. I think the costing is solidified. Do not take this as a finished product, but in theory I think it's close enough one could start to develop your characters without fear of any massive changes to the Skills system. Which is what I let my players know as I passed it on to them, too. More to come, of course.

 

===================================================================

 

Major Skill Specialty (MSS) 9 + (STAT/2)

minor Skill Specialty (mSS) = 9 + (STAT/3)

anything else in the Skill Area 9 + (STAT/5)

 

mSSes costs 3 points; 1 free MSS per area (and only one, cannot purchase more)

 

9 + STAT/2 for MSS would mean each +1 = +1 to MSS, so (as in most areas) +1 to MSS costs +2, +1 to General = +5, +1 to related skills = +3 (redundant skill levels – when you purchase a general for 10, you get +2.5 to specific skill, +1 2/3 to related skills, could devolve to a cost break method for “standard†HERO)

 

Agility – 10 - 1

Background – 10 - 1

Combat – 10 - 1

Cyberspace – 0 - 1

Intellect – 10 - 1

Interaction – 10 - 1

Martial Arts – 0 - 1

Movement – 10 – 1

- movement form how much you make it by is number inches in form + amount or such (might be free movement base)

Perception – 10 – 1

Physique – 10 – 1

Technology – 0 - 1

Vehicle - 0 - 1

 

General Skill Rules:

 

(after costing/applying skill leves)

 

Skills – or entire Skill Areas – that exceed a roll of 24 are no longer considered “normal†level. That means they must have a basis in either cybernetics, ninja oogity-boogity, special genetic engineering, or some other basis (GM permission required if none of the above) besides birth and “normal†(which sets aside ninja) training. In all these cases, there is no specific requirement except for the player to document the source. These are called Glitches, and the GM may use this source as a mild, non-critical, but noticeable sort of oddity. A few examples of Glitches by type of source:

 

Cybernetics

 

• Rare malfunction, causing a nervous tic or such

• Rare audible broadcast signals (such as the reputed channeling of broadcasts via tooth fillings)

• Odd appearance (red eye or such)

 

Ninja Oogity-boogity

 

• Aversion to alcohol

• Sudden intense stare

• Need to immediately meditate

 

Genetic Engineering

 

• Rare (non-combat) swooning

• Odd appearance (rotting-looking nose or such)

• Allergy to meat

 

None of these should be more than a nuisance, and should never be overplayed. It’s best if the player suggests one voluntarily – lest the GM get his own ideas…

 

Note that if the character has more than one skill greater than 24 in a Skill Area or an entire Skill Area greater than 24, the Glitch is bought only once for that Skill Area. But note also that for each Skill Area with this sort of high value that there is another Glitch – though the Glitch may have a different source than any other Glitches the character rhas. For example, having a Combat Skill Specialty of 25 and a Cyberspace Skill Specialty of 28 may have a Ninja Oogity-Boogity source for Combat and a Cybernetics Glitch for Cyberspace. The Ninja Ooogity-Boogity Glitch may be “Muscles cramp up after combat is totally over†(as stated, these should be not more than a nuisance – combat should not suddenly happen again, his Ninja sense somehow lets his muscles cramp up when it’s truly over, and not setting him up for an ambush). The Cybernetics Glitch may be a noticeable bald spot and a plug in his head.

 

As a general rule, a Skill Specialty should not overlap with another – while it is in the spirit of CNP to apply Specialties broadly, it can become abusive if a Specialty becomes so broad it overlaps into other areas. For the most part this probably won’t be a problem, except possibly in combat, where a player might wish to use Dexterity or Analysis to help them hit a target, perhaps. While a good player rationale may allow for a Complementary Skill Roll (q.v.) in such cases, this should normally be quite rare, and the reward of giving a Complementary roll should be exceptional and based on a truly inventive or unusually appropriate or particularly dramatic basis. GMs should become familiar with all Specialties at some level to assist players in understanding the boundaries between them.

 

Skill Areas and Specialties::

 

Agility

 

Agility represents not just simple agility as we know it but hand-eye coordination, dexterity, manual coordination, stealth, and just about every aspect of being limber. It isn’t really necessary to fight, but it surely is necessary if you want to do acrobatic stunts or pick pockets or be sneaky!

 

Acrobatics – includes Breakfall

 

Acrobatics is especially important if you want to be able to dive from a speeding vehicle or land on your feet from a blow in combat or other such feats of derring-do. It also includes circus-level acrobatic skills.

 

Dexterity – includes Sleight of Hand, Concealment, Pick Pocket, Stage Magic

 

Dexterity is specific to hand-eye coordination and hand “trickiness†(and feet, though feet feats, for humans, are usually applied with a -3 to the Skill Roll) . It includes sleight of hand, the ability to conceal something by moving one’s hands quickly, picking pockets, and stage magic tricks, along with the ability to, say, play shoot-‘em-up video games. Note that Dexterity does NOT include the ability to hit something either in melee combat or with ranged weapons.

 

Escape Arts – Contortionist, Escape Artist

 

Escape Artist is a more niche but incredibly important Skill Specialty. It can be used to escape many sorts of bonds and to perform all manners of contortion, too, such as slipping one’s body through a narrow passage or avoiding spikes in a narrow passage. Another usage would include Indiana Jones-style diving through a closing door.

 

Stealth – Shadowing, stealth,

 

Stealth, the eternal favorite! As the name states, it is the character’s ability to be stealthy. This should also include abilities such as shadowing someone and not being noticed. It can also include slipping into a crowd to avoid detection.

 

Background

 

Background skills include a wide variety of abilities and perhaps can be viewed as a catch-all for what the other Skill Areas do not cover. Essentially, Background skills include not only the various things a character might know based on their experiences, but also professional abilities, areas of special knowledge, benefits of their rank, and positions or people they know.

 

Background skills are handled a bit differently than other Skill Areas. While Major and minor Skill Specialties still function as with most other Skill Areas, a player can also define their character’s background according to the Life Interview Process. The LIP is simply a series of questions which results in free minor Skill Specialties. The LIP questions are:

 

1. What did your character learn from his father figure?

2. What did your character learn from his mother figure?

3. Where did your character grow up? If not one place, what region?

4. What recreational hobbies did/does your character have of significance? Normally, characters may not have more than 5 hobbies simply from a matter of management, as a guideline.

5. What did your character enjoy and especially learn in school? If not school, then as part of his other education process (whether it was playing music, panhandling, whatever). Most characters should be in the range of 2-4 such interests.

6. What is your character’s occupation or occupational training? Note, it is common for Cyber Ninja Pirates to have abandoned a career to take on being, well, a Cyber Ninja Pirate. Most characters only have one career/occupation.

7. Where has your character traveled and spent significant time (as in around a year or more)?

8. What sort of social or ongoing educational interests does your character have in addition? Usually this list is 2-4 items.

 

The answers to the LIP questionnaire should not indicate the skills equivalent to a Skill Specialty in any of the other Skill Areas. Where it does, those should simply be bought as Skill Specialties as normal. Otherwise, though, these answers should interpret to free minor Skill Specialties. Usually they can be taken from the list below and customized as appropriate, but some inventiveness may be required.

 

(insert LIP example here)

 

It is entirely appropriate for the GM and player to simply describe other areas of interest, accomplishment, or experience as agreed upon if they don’t fit the LIP questionnaire but fit the character concept.

 

In the context of Background Specialty Skills, the MSS is the character’s dominant theme of his life. If he’s the type who has spent his life as a criminal, then Scoundrel is appropriate, for example. If he’s spent his life as a Doctor, then that is equally appropriate as a Professional Skill. Or perhaps he’s simply a wanderer, in which case Starfarer is appropriate. Naturally, the MSS should be derived from the LIP as the character’s greatest asset/interest as decided by the player (and, as always, agreed upon by the GM).

 

Some Background Specialty Skills are much broader than others. While addressed with the specific Specialty Skill, as a general rule the very broad Specialty Skills must be considered not to include great depth in the same degree as the “normal†narrower ones. For example, a Starfarer simply cannot know as much about (following the example above) Rigalea 9 as a character with a Rigalea 9

 

With GM permission, characters may buy additional mSSes. This is normally used where the character has a particular Skill Specialty due to intense study or memory of something not consistent with their background according to the LIP or if the GM believes the character already has ample mSSes but the player wants more. For example, continuing with the above demonstration, perhaps the character, wants to have three more areas of space added even though he only lived in them a couple months. This is really going beyond the suggested guidelines, especially as these are prominent areas of the campaign so they are clearly useful along with the other such areas (assuming that is the case). So the player and GM agree that the player will buy three mSSes for each of the areas as additional Location Skills, purchased at 3 points apiece.

 

The Background Skill Area is also significantly different in that, unlike other Skill Areas, one is not entitled to use just any Specialty Skill with the Skill Area Rating. One’s background is too specific for that. The LIP is intended to specifically address this issue and dictate which Skill Specialties one gets.

 

While GMs and players are always encouraged to create new Specialty Skills where none seem to exist or fit, nowhere is that more true than with Background Skills. Because backgrounds can vary so widely, there’s no way for this list to be complete enough. While this is handled for the most part with Specialty Skills that are built as generic with the ability to easily declare the specifics (e.g., see the Profession Specialty Skill)

 

Scoundrel – Sreetwise, Criminal Contacts

 

Scoundrel is the perfect reputation for someone who wants to have links in the criminal underworld or relate to the seedy side of things. A character may use this skill to see if he can find a criminal or thug or otherwise miscreant that he knows, to insinuate himself into a criminal organization, to blend in with scum and vagrants, or otherwise deal with or know about the criminal element. Note that this does overlap with the Interaction Skill Area, but should not be confused with those. It is specific only to this class of people and does not include the ability to intimidate, befriend, or otherwise overlap with the Interaction Specialty Skills.

 

Wealthy – High Society, Money (NB – in a money game, require a skill roll to get money plus of course be at an access point – has to be balanced, dangerous)

 

Wealthy is not merely a matter of having money but also of being among the upper class. A character may use this skill to determine contacts among the rich and powerful as well as to simply gain access to large sums of money. There’s a special rule regarding accessing money; each point below the skill roll is how many thousands of credits the character may access, representing ready available cash, and another roll must be made for how long before such money can be gained again. Without making the latter roll, there is a minimum wait of 1 month. However many points below the skill roll is the number of days to be subtracted from the month; any points in excess of the roll delay the period by that amount. Minimally, a character must wait a day to gain more credits, representing the time it takes for money to come into his account. Normally, the PC must have access to a bank or similar money dispensary accessible to his account. This is not normally used for a Cyber Ninja Pirate, and GMs should take great care that this is not used to ultimately unbalance the game by infusing the PCs with too much money.

 

Contacts and Favors

Profession

Location

Environment/Climate

Starfarer – Smattering of universe

 

 

Combat

 

Scrapper –

Melee – Hand-to-Hand

Fast – Fast draw, Autofire, Initiative

Shootist – Accuracy

Awareness - Not Surprised/Defense Maneuver/Danger Sense

Special Weapon

Blocker/Reflector/Parrying, includes Missile Reflection

 

Cyberspace

 

Hacking – basic retrieval of info, commandeering computer systems

Mimic – act as another Cyber-runner

Alter Info/Misinform – change info, affect others in Cyber

Consultation – all Background and Intellect skills only through net interface

Communications – disrupting and using

Tracking – ability to Track someone else, where they are once on the Net

 

Intellect

 

Computer Operator – Computer Programmer, Systems Operation

Detective Work – Analyze, Deduction, Criminology/Cryptography/Deduction/Forensic Medicine

Exobiology - Animal Handler/Veterinarian/Interspecies Specialist

Medical - Paramedics, Doctor

Espionage - Bugging/Security Systems/Lockpicking

Fast Learner – Cramming

Universal Translator – Linguist, Languages, Cryptography

Analysis (?) – Gambling, Odds, Range, Time, similar?

Science/Field

 

 

Interaction

 

Impersonation – Acting, Disguise, Mimicry

Entertainment – Acting, Oratory

Fast Talker – Bribery, Bureaucratics, Conversation

Smooth Talker – Conversation, Persuasion, Seduction

Pretty Boy/Girl/Thing – Seduction, Comeliness

Intimidation – Interrogation, Presence

Connected – Contacts, Favors

 

Martial Arts

 

Swashbuckling

Ancient Ninja

Boxing

Common Racial (Human, etc.)

 

Movement – 10 – 2

 

Note – the way movement works, you have a free base – if you want to go faster, roll against Movement, how much you make it by is how much faster, note you can be forced slower (stumbling, falling)

 

Runner

Swimmer

Jumper

Flyer

Clinger

Glider

Leaper

Swinger

Spacer

 

Perception – 10 – 2

 

Eagle Eye

Big Ears

 

Physique Specialty Skills

 

Strength – includes Lift, Push, Basic Hand to Hand (pummeling)

 

Strength indicates that a character has special skills with

Climbing

 

Technology – 0 - 2

 

Engineer – Large systems, foreign technology

Tinkerer/Engineer – Inventor, Electronics, Mechanics, Weaponsmith

 

Vehicle

 

Pilot - Combat Driving/Combat Piloting/Riding/Transport Familiarity, Navigation

Tinkerer – Vehicle Repair, Mechanics, Systems

[Chromatic]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

I don't know what all it entails, but I call dibs on Ninja Ooogity Boogity. It just sounds cool

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

I don't know what all it entails' date=' but I call dibs on Ninja Ooogity Boogity. It just sounds cool[/quote']

Heh, just design an over-effective character, perhaps it will play a bigger role...

 

Seriously, email me with questions on the Glitch functionality as desired.

[zornwil]

Re: Background on Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space

 

Sorry for lack of updates but progress has been fast and furious and I'm writing an actual rulebook. I have to clear the release in any format/forum of it, though, with DOJ, there's enough overlap, of course, to make it a bit tricky, even though there's also substantial differences. I won't be updating until I know more. I will be playtesting F2F starting 5/14 and due to people's schedules it'll probably be in playtest for a long time, though ideally I could invite a select few others to playtest in parallel (and that'd be better, anyway, as someone besides me should try to GM it).