Fine Manipulation

[Dust Raven]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

Maybe I play up the difference between TK with and without FM more: you can grab or hit something' date=' fine. I basically treat TK as if you had no hands, and FM sticks the hands on. If you want to pick up a key from across the room with (non-FM) TK, you need a roll or you drop it. The beer you could grab, but you'd likely spill it. You'd have no problem intimidating the bully by picking him up and shaking him, but if you wanted to be subtle and undo his pants so his trousers fall down and he's humuliated you definitely need FM. TK will always be noticed if you use it on someone's clothing - FMTK, with a decent roll, wont'. I basically treat non-FM TK as always needing an attack roll: it is not subtle. I'm not saying that low str TK is no use, I'm saying that the reason that you'd (generally) wasnt to buy low str TK would be to use it in a delicate way, and so you'd want FM and having it as a (quite) expensive adder prevents the sort of monkey business you get with 1 STR TK for 1 point - the way I play it that would be virtually useless without FM. You may do it differently, but I wouldn't recommend it: FM is worth 10 points, which isn't chicken feed: it SHOULD be worth that if you use it in your game, which mena that base TK has to be clumsy. [/quote']

 

I agree with what you say about FM being worth it's cost, and the way I do it I believe it is. A sudden jump in ability like what you describe should cost more than 10 points in my opinion. If a player wants to buy 1 STR TK, the GM should either set some limits on it specifically (not TK in general), require certain Limitations be taken (which woudn't reduce the cost regardless of how many) or simply deny the Power bought that small.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

Maybe I play up the difference between TK with and without FM more: you can grab or hit something' date=' fine. I basically treat TK as if you had no hands, and FM sticks the hands on. If you want to pick up a key from across the room with (non-FM) TK, you need a roll or you drop it. The beer you could grab, but you'd likely spill it. You'd have no problem intimidating the bully by picking him up and shaking him, but if you wanted to be subtle and undo his pants so his trousers fall down and he's humuliated you definitely need FM. TK will always be noticed if you use it on someone's clothing - FMTK, with a decent roll, wont'. I basically treat non-FM TK as always needing an attack roll: it is not subtle. I'm not saying that low str TK is no use, I'm saying that the reason that you'd (generally) wasnt to buy low str TK would be to use it in a delicate way, and so you'd want FM and having it as a (quite) expensive adder prevents the sort of monkey business you get with 1 STR TK for 1 point - the way I play it that would be virtually useless without FM. You may do it differently, but I wouldn't recommend it: FM is worth 10 points, which isn't chicken feed: it SHOULD be worth that if you use it in your game, which mena that base TK has to be clumsy. [/quote']

That's interesting! Make them play points for being able to use less Strength! It's almost like the negative Comeliness cost!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

In one of the many heroic level games I worked up but never ran' date=' I came up with a Talent called Psion. I based it loosely on a Perk, as it didn't actually do anything, other than act as the minimum cost of any Power that was defined as being psionic. It cost 10 points. With it a character could then spend 3 points for TK STR 2 and he didn't look unbalanced in cost for being able to lift 50 lb pound of flour and toss it a short distance.[/quote']

That's interesting. Sort of a one-time connection fee based on SFX. I'll have to think about it. It seems a little awkward to just assign an arbitrary cost, so I'd want to find something a little more solid to base it on, at least for my own comfort level. Definitely worth thinking about for my next fantasy campaign.

[zornwil]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

Just to add responses to the initial question, no, my rationale is that Fine Manipulation TK should function as if you were up close and using your own hands, so to the degree that whatever you are doing is something you could normally do, why roll? So you could pull something out of someone's pocket just as if you were next to them and made a grab. However, if someone tried to pick a pocket without being noticed, I'd require a skill roll or at least a DEX roll.

[pinecone]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

I guess the requirment for a roll is because of the lack of tactile feedback ...I've always imagined that TK was useing str at range ... while wearing boxing gloves, you can grab stuf, squezze stuf, even smack stuf, but you real clumsy. Fine work lets you work with regular work gloves, personally I find it hard to do anything real "fiddly" with gloves on so I guess thats why they want a roll even with the adder. If you had some sort of ranged sense I'd forget about a roll anyhow... though I was unaware of the rule till real recent I think thats how I'll impliment it....

[Mike W]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

I think requiring a roll for Fine Manipulation is a bad idea. I hadn't noticed in the rewrite and I don't see myself using it in the future. I could see requiring a to hit roll if the character is trying to do it in combat, but out of combat, I don't see it being an issue unless the idea is very complex(e.g. - I want to pick up that computer disk and hide it behing those books over there before the detective notices it).

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Fine Manipulation

 

I've never used the roll for FM, it's always been that if you have FM, you will need to make attack rolls, characteristic roles etc. depending on what you're doing, and if you don't have it, you basically have a sort of clumsy psychic hands