Speedball Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 In a PBeM I'm currently playing, we're coming to the end of a fight in which the new team of superheroes are facing off (successfully, so far) against Pulsar, Lodestone, Fenris, and Anklyosaur. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the team of heroes has subdued the villains and Anklyosaur in particular is unconscious. If the team's brick (str 60) wants to disable Anklyosaur's armor by basically tearing it apart, how would you handle this? Does it fall under the realm of GM fiat? would you make the brick roll for it, and if so, how? Thanks for indulging my fate-tempting curiousity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Well, first Id try having a tech-minded hero try to open the armor, rather than rip it off. As a Ref, if I were running the game and the Brick said he wanted to tear the armor apart, Id see if he was strong enough to damage it against half its normal defense. Why half defense, you ask? Well...it just seems about right for when the Brick is rending and twisting and pulling it in directions you couldnt in a normal combat, when the operater was aware. All in all, though, it -should- come off with a little work. Otherwise, why is it bought as an Inaccessable focus? Those are -supposed- to be removable in non-combat down time. Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical In a PBeM I'm currently playing, we're coming to the end of a fight in which the new team of superheroes are facing off (successfully, so far) against Pulsar, Lodestone, Fenris, and Anklyosaur. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the team of heroes has subdued the villains and Anklyosaur in particular is unconscious. If the team's brick (str 60) wants to disable Anklyosaur's armor by basically tearing it apart, how would you handle this? Does it fall under the realm of GM fiat? would you make the brick roll for it, and if so, how? Thanks for indulging my fate-tempting curiousity. Sounds like a fun game It's ulimately up to the GM, but I think it would be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Part of having a focus is the risk that it can be lost or damaged. The armor is NOT defined as an unbreakable Focus, so you should be able to damage it per the rules on p293-294 of 5ER. However, in order to damage it at all you will need to inflict 23+ BODY to it, since the Armor has 22 DEF. And actully, it could have up to 30 DEF if the GM rules that the armor is a Durable Focus. Even with Haymaker, a 60 STR Brick is only gonna average, what, 16 BODY per hit? So that's probably not the way to go. However, does the Brick have the Power Skill? If so, he may be able to make a skill check to replicate the Breaking power from the Ultimate Brick (p53), which is a Dispel vs Technological Objects. If successful, the armor will be rendered inactive until Anklyosaur can get around to fixing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical However, does the Brick have the Power Skill? If so, he may be able to make a skill check to replicate the Breaking power from the Ultimate Brick (p53), which is a Dispel vs Technological Objects. If successful, the armor will be rendered inactive until Anklyosaur can get around to fixing it. Icky Steve ruling. Dispel only turns a power off for a very limited amount of time. Focus breaking is IMO beyond what Dispel should in all rights and balances be able to do. Switch off the laser sword yes, render it inoperable until I can fix it (out of combat) no. As to getting the villian out of the armor, well the darned thing has some releases, you simply have to find them. If the armor was OIHID it would be another matter entirely. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Didn't dispel always work better vs powers defined as objects though? Or is that strictly a 5E thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical I have only seen it used as a ultimate foci breaker in 5e and 5er (the new BBB). Dispel works on an SFX and specific power basis. It only turns a power off. By allowing it to scrap foci despite Durability and other considerations for what could be a long time as opposed to a phase it grants Dispel too much power for the point cost. Focus destruction is IMO accomplished by use of attack powers like EB KAs and if you are a munchkin twink BODY Drain. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted June 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical ...does the Brick have the Power Skill? If so' date=' he may be able to make a skill check to replicate the Breaking power from the Ultimate Brick (p53), which is a Dispel vs Technological Objects. If successful, the armor will be rendered inactive until Anklyosaur can get around to fixing it.[/quote'] The brick in question (Apex) does not have any power skills because the poor SOB who plays him (namely me) doesn't own TUB. (and because he's a brand-spankin' new character who hasn't yet figured out all the neat ways to use his strength) Doesn't it seem like common sense that a guy who can lift 100 tons ought to be able to yank the tail off Anklyosaur's armor though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical One of the easiest ways to do this would just be to say the brick can do full body damage [24] against non-resisting items when out of combat. So it will take a few phases but the brick can rip the armor off of Ankylosaur. It's important to let players do impressive things like this. It gives them a sense of power and importance rather than a sense of being weak because they can never roll too far above average. I'd allow this whether it's brick pulling it off or energy projector melting in when it's laying in a pile. Let the heroes be impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical This is a quote from 5e, page 188: "..., someone taking one Turn out of combat can take an Inaccessible Focus away from a character. An Inaccessible Focus cannot be removed from a character who is struggling or resisting." Also, pages 189-190: "When a Breakable Focus is hit by an attack, each attack which penetrates the DEF of the Focus destroys one of the Powers bought through the Focus. The Amount of BODY done is unimportant - one Power is destroyed whether the attack did 1 BODY or 15. The GM should determine which Power is destroyed; usually it will be the largest one in the Focus or one chosen randomly... ...For this purpose, a Multipower counts as one Power (with Active Points equal to the value of its reserve, +1 point for each slot)..." Ankylosaur's Grenade Launcher Multipower (his tail), is definately the largest Power attached to the power armor Focus... (75 point reserve +7 slots = 82) Anklylosaur's power armor has 22 PD/ED Armor, so that is its DEF. If you attacked the villain's armor, while he was unconscious, and did any BODY at all, you could say you ripped that tail off. If you could for one attack, convert your STR into a Killing Attack, (with the special effect that you walked over to Ankylosaur, turned him over, grabbed his tail, planted your foot on his butt, and yanked), you would have a 4d6 HKA. (Yes, this normally would be a Power Stunt for STR, but with the fight basically over, I don't see the problem) If you then converted any CSL's you have in HTH over to doing BODY damage, instead of improving your chance to hit, and then used a Haymaker...I think would have a pretty good chance of doing enough BODY. 4d6 HKA averages 4 x 3.5 = 14 BODY... 14 BODY x 1.5 (for the Haymaker) = 21 BODY... add to that the extra BODY from converting your CSL's in HTH... and you are pretty much there. Luck will be the desiding factor though. One point I'm not sure about, is whether to add the extra BODY from the CSL's before, or after, multiplying from the Haymaker. If you could add them before... then it's practically a sinch. 14 + 1 (from 2 CSL's) = 15... 15 x 1.5 = 22.5 BODY... but still a matter of luck. Comment: They sure made Ankylosaur's Armor tough to bust up. If it only had a 20 DEF, it would be much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted June 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Utlimately the GM decided that Apex wasn't able to rip off the tail, but cinched the nozzle of the grenade launcher closed, making it ineffective. Not as satisfying (or wholly effective) as ripping the tail *off*, but not completely unsatisfying, either. On a side note, I was trying to find a Hero retailer from which to purchase The Ultimate Brick in New York City. Alas, none in the boroughs of Manhattan or Brooklyn. It seems incomprehensible. Are there any NYC Hero-philes out there who can give advice? I'll just buy it online if I have to, but I'd rather not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incrdbil Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Utlimately the GM decided that Apex wasn't able to rip off the tail, but cinched the nozzle of the grenade launcher closed, making it ineffective. Not as satisfying (or wholly effective) as ripping the tail *off*, but not completely unsatisfying, either. now if they only triggered the grenande launcher to fire after doing that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted June 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical now if they only triggered the grenande launcher to fire after doing that... Yeah, I was thinking about having my PC smack him around until he woke up, taunting him until he tried to fire a shot off, and see it *that* would open up his armor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Kentucky Fried Movie Kung Fu Hero voice, "But that would be WRONG..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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