Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

[prestidigitator]

I have normally been opposed to suggestions for making Figured Characteristics non-figured, but I have recently realized that the correlation between Primary Characteristics and Figured Characteristics can largely be considered Special Effects.

 

For that matter, some people seem to have problems with the links of damage to Strength, Perception to Intelligence, and even CV to Dex and Ego. Now, the links probably make sense in a real-world sense, but why require them?

 

Consider the following. Thoughts and feedback are appreciated.

 

 

Characteristic  Starting Value  Cost
--------------  --------------  ----
Strength         10 (11-)        1
Dexterity        10 (11-)        1
Constitution     10 (11-)        1
Intelligence     10 (11-)        1
Perception       10 (11-)        1
Ego              10 (11-)        1
Presence         10 (11-)        1
Comliness        10 (11-)        1

Body             10              2
PD                2              1
ED                2              1
Speed             2             10
Rec               4              2
End              20              0.5
Stun             20              1

Run               6              2
Swim              2              1
Leap              2              1

HDam            2d6              5
PDam            2d6              5
OCV               3              5
DCV               3              5
EOCV              3              5
EDCV              3              5
MD                0              1

 

Benefits (Differences from current system)

 

Strength

Determines lifting capacity and ability to hold or break out of Grabs (Entangles may be subject to Str and GM's option, either for free or by taking a -1/4 Limitation, but are normally broken with an appropriate form of damage instead). May also be used for Disarms if it makes dramatic sense. May be rolled for some acts of physical might not otherwise accounted for in the system (pulling oneself up onto a ledge).

 

No longer influences HTH damage at all. See HDam, below.

 

Dexterity

Used for the Dive for Cover maneuver and as a basis for Agility Skills. May be rolled for some acts of physical dexterity (such as keeping one's balance when the floor starts tilting).

 

No longer determines OCV and DCV. See OCV and DCV, below.

 

Constitution

Used to determine whether a character has been Stunned. May be rolled for acts of exertion (such as prolonged running).

 

Intelligence

Represents a character's ability to reason and as a basis for Intellect Skills.

 

No longer determines base Perception Roll. See Perception, below.

 

Perception

Represents a character's awareness of his/her surroundings and the accuteness of his/her senses. Roll may be increased for one Sense with 2-point Skill Levels, or an entire Senese Group with 3-point Skill Levels.

 

Ego

Used to resist Psychological Limitations and Metal Attacks. May be rolled for other applications of willpower (such as resisting temptation).

 

No longer determines ECV. See OECV and DECV, below.

 

Presense

Used to resist Presence Attacks and as a basis for Social Skills. May be rolled for social interactions not covered by Skills.

 

No longer determines Effect Roll for Presence Attacks. See PDam, below.

 

Comliness

Used as a Persistant version of Presence. Can be rolled in a Complimentary fashion and substituted for Social Skills when the character doesn't actually interact with the, "target;" the effects of such a substitution will be limited at best (e.g. a police officer observing the security film may not become ready friends with the character as might be the case for use of the Seduction Skill, but may be inclined to pass over him as a suspect initially because he doesn't, "look the type").

 

Body

Is Body. No changes.

 

PD, ED, Speed, Rec, End Stun, Run, Swim, Leap

No changes. All simply have starting values rather than some being figured.

 

HDam (Hand-to-Hand Damage)

Used in every circumstance where Strength is used to apply or increase damage in the existing system. +1d6 (+1 DC) costs 5 points as indicated, but +1/2d6 (+1/2DC) may be purchased for 3 points.

 

PDam (Presence Damage)

Determines the Effect Roll for Presence Attacks.

 

OCV, DCV

Now Characteristics unto themselves. +1 to each costs 5 points based on cost of DCV CSLs.

 

OECV, DECV

Now Characteristics unto themselves.

 

MD (Mental Defense)

No longer based upon Ego; Ego already serves as a kind of defense against Mental Attacks, both in being the threshold for Effect Rolls and in providing Breakout Rolls.

 

 

Costs

Characters should be expected to spend about 50% more on Characteristics with this system. Here is an equivalence and cost comparison to the existing system:

 

EDIT: Note that I am listing the value of Str in standard Hero, but many house rules increase its cost to 2 per point.

 

Old                Cost  Equivalent                      Cost
---                ----  ----------                      ----

Str +10            10    Str +10, PD +2, Rec +2,         10+2+4+5+2+10=33
                           Stun +5, Leap +2, HDam +2d6

Dex +3              9    Dex +3, OCV +1, DCV +1          3+5+5=13

Con +10            20    Con +10, ED +2, Rec +2,         10+2+4+10+5=31
                           End +20, Stun +5

Body +1             2    Body +1, Stun +1                2+1=3

Int +5              5    Int +5, Per +5                  5+5=10

Ego +5             10    Ego +5, OECV +1, DECV +1        5+5+5=15
                           (MD +1)                      (+1=16)

Pre +5              5    Pre +5, PDam +1d6               5+5=10

Com +2              1    Com +2                          2

Per +1 (roll)       3    Per +5 (value, +1 roll)         5

Sense Per +1        1    SL: Sense                       2

Sense Group Per +1  2    SL: Sense Group                 3

[Trebuchet]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

This is not only at least as complicated as the current system but considerably more expensive for character building, especially with supers. I simply can't see any benefits to this method unless your intention is to lower overall Characteristics in a campaign, which can be more easily accomplished with fewer points or NCM.

 

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

This is not only at least as complicated as the current system but considerably more expensive for character building, especially with supers. I simply can't see any benefits to this method unless your intention is to lower overall Characteristics in a campaign, which can be more easily accomplished with fewer points or NCM.

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

Hear Hear. The existing balance between, say Bricks, Martial Artists and Energy Blasters would definitely change under this approach. Others will have to decide whether that's a good or bad thing.

 

Speaking of NCM, there would be a lot more NCM's required with the above system.

 

I'm curious why BOD gets singled out as the only 2 point characteristic. Seems to me letting PC's become less killable for 1 point per BOD wouldn't break the game.

 

I suspect we'd see a lot more Drains (maybe other adjustment powers) under this system. DCV Drains, for example, making targets easier to hit. Let's make it AE-1 hex so I can hit those high DCV targets. Draining targets to negative primary stats now becomes much easier, and that's a very effective way of taking out, say, a combat expert with no agility skills (so maybe a 13 DEX).

 

Once we hit NCM totals, sill levels become an even better choice. "Well, I can pay 10 points to buy my DEX up 5, or I can pay 5 points for a skill level with all DEX skills. I wonder which is more efective..."

[MitchellS]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

I'm stronglyl considering dropping figured characteristics for my new game. My costs will be as follows though:

 

Strength: 10 base, +1 per 1 point.

Dexterity: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Constitution: 10 base, +1 per 1 point.

Body: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Intelligence: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Ego: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Presence: 10 base, +1 per 1 point.

Comeliness: 10 base, +2 per 1 point.

Physical Defense: 2 base, +1 per 1 point.

Energy Defense: 2 base, +1 per 1 point.

Speed: 2 base, +1 per 10 points.

Recovery: 4 base, +1 per 2 points.

Endurance: 20 base, +2 per 1 point.

Stun: 20 base, +1 per 1 point.

[casualplayer]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

It's a perfectly viable way to do Characteristics but, unfortunately, you would have to recost most Powers also. The system is entertwined so that things that you least expect have a huge interdependency on innocuous things. I personally would have liked to have seen Figured Characteristics go the way of the dodo with 5th Ed, but have the actual characteristics (PD-STUN) remain. Where were you when they were making 5th?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

This is not only at least as complicated as the current system but considerably more expensive for character building, especially with supers. I simply can't see any benefits to this method unless your intention is to lower overall Characteristics in a campaign, which can be more easily accomplished with fewer points or NCM.

 

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Well, as I said my intent was to decouple things that are linked because of the game designers' ideas of how combat is tied to physical and mental traits. I and many others don't really have a problem with this, but some don't like the ties between Str and damage, Dex and combat value, Int and Per, etc.

 

To be sure there are ways of uncoupling them in the current system, but this requires taking Limitations that are at best very subjective, or using SLs and CSLs with Advantages, Limitations, in Frameworks, or whatever. This seemed a lot easier.

 

As for being as or more complicated, I don't see how. There are no longer any formulas to remember; just costs, and most of them are either a consistent value (1 or 5) in this system or the same as they were in the old.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

As for being as or more complicated' date=' I don't see how. There are no longer any formulas to remember; just costs, and most of them are either a consistent value (1 or 5) in this system or the same as they were in the old.[/quote']

 

Sheer numbers make it more complicated.

[Guzalot]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Sheer numbers make it more complicated.

Agreed. Still, if it works for your campaign and your players like it then go for it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Hear Hear. The existing balance between' date=' say Bricks, Martial Artists and Energy Blasters would definitely change under this approach. Others will have to decide whether that's a good or bad thing.[/quote']

Maybe. I'm not sure. A lot of types seem to put points into Characteristics, just different Characteristics. For example, martial arts and, "energy blaster," types seem to put more points into Dex and Movement, and Bricks more into Str, Con, and defenses. I did try to keep things consistent in terms of the amount that costs increased, so most things cost about 50% more than they did (a few cost more like double, but that is limited).

 

Speaking of NCM, there would be a lot more NCM's required with the above system.

I suppose. NCMs can be the same for most things, and for others (such as damage and CVs) you can just use the value at the NCM of the Characteristic to which the used to be tied (HDam/PDam 4d6, OCV/DCV/EOCV/EDCV 7, and I suppose 20 for Perception to make things consistent).

 

I'm curious why BOD gets singled out as the only 2 point characteristic. Seems to me letting PC's become less killable for 1 point per BOD wouldn't break the game.

Well, as you'll notice I placed Body with the Characteristics that are normally Figured. Why? Well, first because you never use a Body Roll (9+Body/5). Second, because I did want to keep things roughly consistent in terms of the price increase. If Body cost 1, then Body+Stun would cost the same as in the existing system rather than going with the 50% more scheme. It could always be dropped to 1 without much issue probably.

 

I suspect we'd see a lot more Drains (maybe other adjustment powers) under this system. DCV Drains, for example, making targets easier to hit. Let's make it AE-1 hex so I can hit those high DCV targets. Draining targets to negative primary stats now becomes much easier, and that's a very effective way of taking out, say, a combat expert with no agility skills (so maybe a 13 DEX).

That might be true. However, isn't this already an issue with Str and Pre? Drop a character to negative values there, and they can be pretty ineffective. Wouldn't you like to see a way to reduce someone's CVs other than Negative CSLs? It's pretty expensive to do if the cost 5, and at least we wouldn't be trying to come up with Dex Drains that are Limited to only reducing CVs or something.

 

Once we hit NCM totals, sill levels become an even better choice. "Well, I can pay 10 points to buy my DEX up 5, or I can pay 5 points for a skill level with all DEX skills. I wonder which is more efective..."

True. Of course, isn't that already an issue? If I hit NCM with my Dex currently, I can pay 30 points to increase it by 5, or I can buy THREE OVERALL SKILL LEVELS for that! Hmm. Let me think about that....

[prestidigitator]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

I'm stronglyl considering dropping figured characteristics for my new game. My costs will be as follows though:

 

Strength: 10 base, +1 per 1 point.

Dexterity: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Constitution: 10 base, +1 per 1 point.

Body: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Intelligence: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Ego: 10 base, +1 per 2 points.

Presence: 10 base, +1 per 1 point.

Comeliness: 10 base, +2 per 1 point.

Physical Defense: 2 base, +1 per 1 point.

Energy Defense: 2 base, +1 per 1 point.

Speed: 2 base, +1 per 10 points.

Recovery: 4 base, +1 per 2 points.

Endurance: 20 base, +2 per 1 point.

Stun: 20 base, +1 per 1 point.

Cool. I just thought it would be interesting to go the one logical step further. It's a fun mind game, anyway. I may play test it at some point, or at least do some character building and see how it goes.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

It's a perfectly viable way to do Characteristics but' date=' unfortunately, you would have to recost most Powers also. The system is entertwined so that things that you least expect have a huge interdependency on innocuous things. I personally would have liked to have seen Figured Characteristics go the way of the dodo with 5th Ed, but have the actual characteristics (PD-STUN) remain. Where were you when they were making 5th?[/quote']

Maybe. I tried to keep the combat effects about the same cost, so that they were still consistent with Power costs and such. For example, each 1d6 of HTH Damage still costs 5 points; OCV and DCV cost the same as buying a 5-point DCV level (they also cost together roughly what it would normally take for you to raise your Dex enough to bump them: +3 to Dex in the old system costs 9; +1 OCV, +1 DCV in the new system costs 10).

 

EDIT: Oh, by the way: where was I when they were making 5th? Still busy trying to get my friends to play 4th.

[Kristopher]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

No Thank You.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

The only thing I have against dropping figured characteristics is that it seems like fiddling around the edges. If I was going to rework characteristics then I think I'd get rid of characteristics completely.

 

That would streamline the system as it would remove another way of getting package deals. Characteristics are a throwback to first generation rpgs.

 

I would give each character the basic abilities that the current starting characteristics give - 2d6 normal damage, CV3, 10 BODY etc etc just like the 6" running that everyone gets.

 

Anything more that you wanted, you would buy as a power.

 

 

I realise that this is a radical departure from current 5ER but if you want to change things then go the whole way and do it 'properly'

 

 

Doc

[MitchellS]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

The only thing I have against dropping figured characteristics is that it seems like fiddling around the edges. If I was going to rework characteristics then I think I'd get rid of characteristics completely.

 

That would streamline the system as it would remove another way of getting package deals. Characteristics are a throwback to first generation rpgs.

 

I would give each character the basic abilities that the current starting characteristics give - 2d6 normal damage, CV3, 10 BODY etc etc just like the 6" running that everyone gets.

 

Anything more that you wanted, you would buy as a power.

 

 

I realise that this is a radical departure from current 5ER but if you want to change things then go the whole way and do it 'properly'

 

 

Doc

Yeah, that's a little radical.

 

My reasons for dropping figured characteristics is to primarily deal with the strength bonus bricks get, but also to bring everyone back to the same level playing field. It also allows you to have more interesting character combinations without needing to buy-back characteristics. So you want the strong but unhealthy brick? No problem. Just don't buy him as much Con, End, Rec, and Stun. That way you don't need to deal with the "only allowed to sell back one figured characteristic rule" as well.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Maybe. I'm not sure. A lot of types seem to put points into Characteristics' date=' just [i']different[/i] Characteristics. For example, martial arts and, "energy blaster," types seem to put more points into Dex and Movement, and Bricks more into Str, Con, and defenses. I did try to keep things consistent in terms of the amount that costs increased, so most things cost about 50% more than they did (a few cost more like double, but that is limited).

 

I've never found Energy Projectors pump as much into characteristics as Bricks (especially) or even Martial Artists tend to. EB's don't, in my experience, buy any movement that's currently linked to a stt. They'll see an increase in costs due to CON and DEX losing figured abilities, but that's about it. Again, I haven't done a detailed analysis, but I see Bricks having more to lose.

 

Martial Arts become a clear "must have" too. +1 OCV/+3 DCV is now worth 20 points all by itself!

 

That might be true. However' date=' isn't this already an issue with Str and Pre? Drop a character to negative values there, and they can be pretty ineffective.[/quote']

 

Now it will be an issue for everything. Is that an improvement? "Ha! Your Perception is negative, so you must make a PER roll to perceive anything!"

 

Wouldn't you like to see a way to reduce someone's CVs other than Negative CSLs? It's pretty expensive to do if the cost 5' date=' and at least we wouldn't be trying to come up with Dex Drains that are Limited to only reducing CVs or something.[/quote']

 

CHange Environment also works, but that's beside the point. And with the cost of everything else going up, maybe the cost of a negative skill level should stay at 5. That's what you're charging to raise it by 5!

 

True. Of course' date=' isn't that already an issue? If I hit NCM with my Dex currently, I can pay 30 points to increase it by 5, or I can buy THREE OVERALL SKILL LEVELS for that! Hmm. Let me think about that....[/quote']

 

That 30 subtracts 5 from the cost of SPD, provides OCV, DCV, faster reactions in combat, better rolls for simultaneous action, complementary skills of the same type, etc. And you have selected the most expensive stat to base that comment on.

 

Move to INT or PRE and +5 over NCM costs 10, twice as much as a level that will make you better with some aspects of the stat. Right now, I see skill levels as reasonably balanced with stats, especially stats at NCM.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Most of the comments here simply indicate how interlinked much of the system (inevitably?) is.

 

You can't change the characteristics without considering those powers (like drains etc) that were designed to predate upon them. This is an ecology and you have to consider all the aspects of changes imposed on that ecology.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Yeah, that's a little radical.

 

My reasons for dropping figured characteristics is to primarily deal with the strength bonus bricks get, but also to bring everyone back to the same level playing field. It also allows you to have more interesting character combinations without needing to buy-back characteristics. So you want the strong but unhealthy brick? No problem. Just don't buy him as much Con, End, Rec, and Stun. That way you don't need to deal with the "only allowed to sell back one figured characteristic rule" as well.

 

I'd have thought you'd be interested in a change like this as it would possibly lead to a lesser required upfront investment in learning the system - don't worry about characteristics - just learn the power and skills systems.

 

 

I was thinking of you when I wrote it!

 

 

Doc

[MitchellS]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

I'd have thought you'd be interested in a change like this as it would possibly lead to a lesser required upfront investment in learning the system - don't worry about characteristics - just learn the power and skills systems.

 

 

I was thinking of you when I wrote it!

 

 

Doc

Then you misunderstand what I want from the system. I want to remove the complexity and steep learning curve. I also want to smooth out some of the "issues" most people seem to have with the system [strength being too cheap, for example]. I have no desire to change it beyond that.

[atlascott]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

My problem with getting rid of figured characteristics is: figured characteristics were envisioned as derivatives of the base characteristics, and to a certain extent, lose all meaning if the two are divorced. Aren't agile, flexible characters in comics generally quicker than the behemoths? Are hearty characters quicker to recover from ill effects from fatigue and damage? If you take these away, you are destroying the conception of what DEX really is, or what CON really is. Why is it that Ben Grimm can take a hit that would decapitate a normal, but keep swinging himself? Is it because his player bought up his defenses, or is it because strong guys generally take punches better than 98-pound weaklings?

 

I also would object to STR no longer being related to HtH damage. Don't strong guys punch harder?

 

I think the whole thing is a terrible idea. I only support eliminating Figured Characterisitics if you are playing a limited genre that doesnt require a particular stat--in which case, you cut it to make the game simpler and faster. I'm not sure what the infatuation is with eliminating the figured characteristics.

[casualplayer]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

I also would object to STR no longer being related to HtH damage. Don't strong guys punch harder?

 

It's certainly not going to make the game less complicated, but 'realistically' STR is a small part of punching damage. Coordination involving all of the muscles working together is much more damaging. Are you ready for a DEX bonus to damage? If you have a 110 STR but move like sludge, I'm really only in danger if you pin me to something immovable.

 

Raw STR should only be used for Grab manuevers and damage. HTH damage could be figured off of that (but we're backsliding then) but it shouldn't necessarily be equivalent.

[MitchellS]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Why is it that Ben Grimm can take a hit that would decapitate a normal' date=' but keep swinging himself? Is it because his player bought up his defenses, or is it because strong guys generally take punches better than 98-pound weaklings?[/quote']

And yet caught unaware he can be taken out just as quickly be a gas grenade as a normal person can. Doesn't that suggest he has no higher stun than a normal person?

 

In most cases you are correct, the more agile person will be quicker. But there are many cases where you don't want that to be. Also keep in mind that Hero doesn't just represent comic book characters. It needs to represent all the genres if it's going to be truly universal.

 

I also would object to STR no longer being related to HtH damage. Don't strong guys punch harder?

I made no mention of this. You must be talking about someone else here.

 

I think the whole thing is a terrible idea. I only support eliminating Figured Characterisitics if you are playing a limited genre that doesnt require a particular stat--in which case, you cut it to make the game simpler and faster. I'm not sure what the infatuation is with eliminating the figured characteristics.

So how do you build the sickly strong man in Hero? You don't want him to be immune to damage and you want him to recover slowly from damage because of his illness? Under current rules you can only buy-down one figured characteristic. So you have a 90 strength brick who MUST have the 18 pd, at least 20 rec, and at 60 stun, whether you want him to or not.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

Then you misunderstand what I want from the system. I want to remove the complexity and steep learning curve. I also want to smooth out some of the "issues" most people seem to have with the system [strength being too cheap' date= for example]. I have no desire to change it beyond that.

 

Obviously you will know what you want better than me. I thought that removing one of the major subsystems of Hero would remove complexity and aid in levelling the learning curve.

 

This may also provide an opportunity to cut the Gordian Knot of STR cost by removing STR as a concept.

 

You are, like the rest of us, conservative at hearth though. Too much change frightens us - would we still be playing the same system? I think so, others would not.

 

Anyway - I'm not advocating this as a change just indicating that if I was going to go to all the trouble of adjusting the characteristics to remove figured then I think I'd go the extra mile to think about what the system would look like without all of those black box powers that we call characteristics.

 

 

Doc

[Trebuchet]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

So how do you build the sickly strong man in Hero? You don't want him to be immune to damage and you want him to recover slowly from damage because of his illness? Under current rules you can only buy-down one figured characteristic. So you have a 90 strength brick who MUST have the 18 pd' date=' at least 20 rec, and at 60 stun, whether you want him to or not.[/quote']That is quite easily remedied by simply purchasing all or part of the STR with "No Figured Characteristics." The points saved can then be used to buy up other Characteristics as desired. So chopping out Figured Characteristics is an unnecessary solution for a nonexistent problem. The idea might have some small merit as some sort of simplification of the system, but since the toolkit approach of Hero is one of it's greatest strengths there is a point below which simplification is no longer an improvement.

[MitchellS]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

That is quite easily remedied by simply purchasing all or part of the STR with "No Figured Characteristics." The points saved can then be used to buy up other Characteristics as desired. So chopping out Figured Characteristics is an unnecessary solution for a nonexistent problem. The idea might have some small merit as some sort of simplification of the system' date=' but since the toolkit approach of Hero is one of it's greatest strengths there is a point below which simplification is no longer an improvement.[/quote']

Good point and well done [except for the preachy part].

[prestidigitator]

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics

 

That is quite easily remedied by simply purchasing all or part of the STR with "No Figured Characteristics." The points saved can then be used to buy up other Characteristics as desired. So chopping out Figured Characteristics is an unnecessary solution for a nonexistent problem. The idea might have some small merit as some sort of simplification of the system' date=' but since the toolkit approach of Hero is one of it's greatest strengths there is a point below which simplification is no longer an improvement.[/quote']

Well, this might work okay for actual Figured Characteristics, but it doesn't work quite well for those Non-Characteristics that are figured from the Primaries: Leaping, Damage, OCV, DCV, etc. I'm not debating that Hero is great as a toolkit. I'm just wondering at the exact composition of the tool set. Is it broad and flat enough for all applications, so that all have and need are constructive tools, or is there a little too much depth so you need a jackhammer and a sledge to flatten things out a bit before you can really get to work on some projects? It's a tough one to answer, I think.