Long winded request for assistance

[sjmiller]

Greetings!

 

I am hoping that the fine people here can help me with creating a character for Champions based on some concepts I have. I’ve owned Champions since the First Edition days, but sometimes I just can’t wrap my head around all the mechanics of the system. I guess I am still stuck in my Villains & Vigilantes mindset, but that’s another story.

 

This is going to be a fairly long post, just to warn you. I also, admittedly, do not own the latest edition of the game, so some new concepts are a mystery to me.

 

Anyway, here’s the scoop. I am playing in a game with a group of highly, umm, different players and characters. One is a big comic book geek, but he doesn’t really have a grasp of the game mechanics at all. He’s playing a Wolverine clone, and doing it pretty good, actually. The next player is playing a character that turns to water and has all her powers based on that. Not much of a problem with her, though she can be indecisive at times. I am currently playing a character with photonic and plasma based powers with a strong sense of justice and what is right.

 

The final player is what I would call a problem player. He’s been playing Hero System for a long time, and knows the rules fairly well. He also, I feel, tries to abuse the rules at every opportunity. His character is a real Caspar Milquetoast sort until he changes identities/is possessed by another being/whatever he does and then he is this “Uber-terror†sort of dark character with lots of strength, lots of armor, and some over-powered melee attacks. I swear, most every attack he makes does 30 to 40 dice of damage. I really can’t see the allure of playing this kind of character, where nothing is a challenge. I also think it violates the four-color comic hero theme we’re supposed to be playing. Basically, the guy is a power gamer/munchkin/gotta win at all costs sort of player.

 

What I want to do, and I know the GM would like it, is beat him at his own game. I want to create a new character, one that is a full-tilt four color superhero. I want a character with that typical 1950s & 1960s black and white moral viewpoint with the ability, if needed, to take down the “problem†character. An energy projector would be cool, or someone who becomes intangible. I would love it if I could model the character after a superhero from one of the Golden Age comics. I am just not sure, honestly, how to really tweak points to wring the most out of them.

 

There are a few (okay more than a few) restrictions I have to work around, but nothing too major, I don’t think.

 

1. 350 character points (150 base points + disadvantages)

2. No magic.

3. Any physical attribute over 25, mental attribute over 30, or powers that are not a result of technology or improved skill requires a 15 point Disadvantage of Weird Biochemistry: requires specialized medical care. One Weird Biochemistry covers everything.

4. No primary offensive power can exceed 60 active points.

5. A secondary offensive power may exceed the cap, but are restricted in the number of uses. 61-75 points: once per turn; 76-90 points: once per five minutes; 91-120 points: once per hour; 121-180 points: once per day.

6. Secondary powers that exceed 60 points must have Increased Endurance Cost and Side Effect limitations.

7. Defenses cannot exceed 30 active points, focus defences cannot exceed 20 points.

8. Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction are powers, not advantages.

9. At least 100 points must be spent on skills, perks, and talents.

 

That is what I have to work with. I know, it’s not much, and I am asking a lot of you. But, if anyone can give me some pointers, or even point me to something that is already done, I would be extremely grateful. Heck, if it turns out really good I will even send out cookies (your choice of type) to the person who comes up with the most interesting assistance.

 

Thanks for reading this far, and thanks for helping, if you can.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

I'll get on this when i get back from work to my room, sounds interesting.

 

What i'm thinking is an Energy Projector with lots of weird/cheesy attacks. (ie. things that should not be like summons for attacks or autofiring NND).

 

Is this simply to beat 1 specific character? if so does he have any weaknesses?

 

Do you could Desoild as a defense? because that's inherintly 40 AP

[sjmiller]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

I'll get on this when i get back from work to my room, sounds interesting.

 

What i'm thinking is an Energy Projector with lots of weird/cheesy attacks. (ie. things that should not be like summons for attacks or autofiring NND).

 

Is this simply to beat 1 specific character? if so does he have any weaknesses?

 

Do you could Desoild as a defense? because that's inherintly 40 AP

To the best of my knowledge, Desolid, if purchased, would not be considered a defense, so would not have the 30 point cap. At least, I believe that is what the GM said.

 

While the character is, to some extent, being built to defeat one specific player's character, I am also trying to build it to be playable, enjoyable, and still useful. I believe the character in question has difficulties with desolid powers and I seem to recall a vulnerability to Flash attacks.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

Does he have any Flash Defense, Life Support, Mental Defense, Power Defense, etc...

 

Flash attacks can blind a character, making him easier to attack and with coordinated attacks you could stun him into next week, month, etc...

 

Applied Versus Limited Defense (or AVLD) or No Normal Defense (NND) Enery Blasts can by pass all Defenses save one (like Life Support, etc...)

 

Nuero Toxins, Ego Attacks, etc... (Mental Defense).

 

Dispel, Drains, Transfers. & Suppress attacks (Power Defense is a rare defense).

 

Note that most of these attacks can be totally non lethal.

 

For the GM create a Absorption/Aid Supervillain with Damage Reduction. When the Munchkin hits him with 30 to 40 dice of damage. Count all the Body and Add it to the desired stat.

 

Another favourite is the is the Adsorption to Damage Shield. OUCHIE!!! (It's like hitting a concrete wall with broken glass imbeded into it.

 

Or a Flying supervillain with Growth or Density Increase who can drop on him from 105" up reaching terminal velocity doing 30d6 And then callculate it as a Move Through. (Note give him lots of Offensive Combat Skill Levels to hit and then at least 30" Superleap x2 Non Combat Multipuls so he surivives taking no damage)

 

Last, but not least the most MORAL and RESPECTED SUPERHERO in your Game Master's Universe shows up and tries to make him see the light or bring him to justice.

 

Problem Players are the bane of all Game Masters. Experience and helpful forums like ...HEH! THIS ONE! are a great resource. Always remember your there to have fun.

 

Have the GM and Group talk to the player and explain your position to him.

 

Hope that helps

 

QM

 

P.S.: one word INVISIBILITY

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

It would be expensive, but buy Missile Reflection at Range. If you see one of these attacks coming it at someone who doesn't deserve that bad of a punishment use the power to reflect it back onto the attacker, most likely knocking him flat. You are looking at 20 points base + 20 points for reflection. The +1 Advantage is going to make the active point cost 80. Then buy OAF (Shield or equivalent) and maybe even consider giving it Independent. Also toss on Will Not Work Against Heavy Missiles (-1/4). Real Point cost 19 and uses the guys own power right back at him.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

what's his stun and speed?

[Kirby]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

IF he doesn't have Lack of Weakness, then buying that (and up high) should work, then you don't actually have to a super-powerful attack. If he has 40 defenses and you find it twice, that drops him down to 10! If he has LoW from 6-10, you may only find weakness once, and really from 10+ it may not be worth it (verse that defense).

 

Also, do you have a mentalist on the team? If not, this could be a great counter. If said PC gets out of hand, a maxed out Mind Control telling him to "Calm Down" should work. (And perhaps with FW against mental defense to boot.)

 

Otherwise, being desolid with LS (to remain that way) and a power (NND? AVLD?) that "Affects Real World" may come in handy (though expensive).

[Guzalot]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

I guess I'll chime in with the obvious question: Why hasn't the GM asked this guy to simply create a new character that would be subject to review before he can play it? It sounds like a group consensus that his PC is abusive and unbalancing.

[sjmiller]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

what's his stun and speed?

I have no idea what the Stun is, since I have never looked at his character. Speed is 7, which I know through combat.

[sjmiller]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

I guess I'll chime in with the obvious question: Why hasn't the GM asked this guy to simply create a new character that would be subject to review before he can play it? It sounds like a group consensus that his PC is abusive and unbalancing.

Since I know both the GM and the player fairly well, this is a complicated question to answer. The GM has spoken to the player a few times, and the character is actually toned down from what he started with, I guess. I do not think that we could ask for group approval of his character, because I am fairly sure that he would consider that to be a way for me to shoot down his character and him personally. He's always made abusive characters, and I doubt that will ever change. Sure, we could ask him not to play, but then his sister, who is also playing, might not like that. Complex situation all around.

[Guzalot]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

Since I know both the GM and the player fairly well' date=' this is a complicated question to answer. The GM has spoken to the player a few times, and the character is actually toned down from what he started with, I guess. I do not think that we could ask for group approval of his character, because I am fairly sure that he would consider that to be a way for me to shoot down his character and him personally. He's always made abusive characters, and I doubt that will ever change. Sure, we could ask him not to play, but then his sister, who is also playing, might not like that. Complex situation all around.[/quote']

It's really the GM's responsibility to review and approve characters, not yours or the groups. Speaking as a GM, every character in my campaign is personaly reviewed by me and most undergo at least a little bit of revision before they are approved. I head off alot of problems that way. Nobody wants their character completely overshadowed by a munchkin king, it only creates hard feelings all the way around. Just my 2c.

 

Anyway, good luck dealing with this guy.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

here, i'm sure this could be improved etc. but it's basic.

 

the rules are simple. Dance around, go Desolid etc when he swings. Because if he hits you GAME OVER, dive for cover do anything to avoid being hit. once it happens, there is no more Inflamo, he becomes the incredible smear.

 

the internal combustion should always be aimed for the head for the most stun.

 

Summon fire elementals and let them kill him.

 

Most normal things won't need the fire elementals or the internal combustion, just hit them in the head repeatedly with your forceful flame.

[Taurus]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

I swear, most every attack he makes does 30 to 40 dice of damage

4. No primary offensive power can exceed 60 active points.

if this is a rule how does this uber-terror guy throw out 30-40 dice? is that a typo?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

hmm, you could get a 12 dice HA with 60AP, and then double it w/ Str, that's up to 24...

[MitchellS]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

hmm' date=' you could get a 12 dice HA with 60AP, and then double it w/ Str, that's up to 24...[/quote']

You can't double if the power can't exceed 60 AP. If 60 is your cap then it's your cap, not a per power cap.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

p405, if he has a 60 STR and +12d6 HA, i think he can have 24 dice, and then find ways to increase it, like haymaker, and martial arts.

 

at least that's how it looks like to me, because the 12d6 is the power, and str isn't the power it's the characteristic

[MitchellS]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

p405, if he has a 60 STR and +12d6 HA, i think he can have 24 dice, and then find ways to increase it, like haymaker, and martial arts.

 

at least that's how it looks like to me, because the 12d6 is the power, and str isn't the power it's the characteristic

You missed the point. A 60 AP cap is implying that no attack should be doing more than 12d6 without the benefit of a haymaker or a good roll [assuming you give extra damage for a 3 or 4 rolled]. It's not implying that you can buy 60 strength and +12d6 hth any more than it's implying you can buy 12d6 eb +12d6 eb. You can buy a 40 strength and +4d6 or any other combination which adds to 60 AP.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

he could also use more than one power at once.

[MitchellS]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

he could also use more than one power at once.

Yea, MPA is legal, but they also subract defenses individually. There's a big difference between two 12d6 attacks and one 24d6 attack.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

Yea' date=' MPA is legal, but they also subract defenses individually. There's a big difference between two 12d6 attacks and one 24d6 attack.[/quote']

 

that's true, but an attack like that can often me mentioned as a large number of dice. makes it seem more impressive than it is.

 

also, without sj's GM telling us so, that 60 AP may be the power's limit, not the damage class cap. If it's the damage class total value cap then you are right. If it's merely the offensive power's cap (without things that are usually added to it) then roy it.

 

I always make a point to tell my players the damage cap AND the AP limit.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

I always make a point to tell my players the damage cap AND the AP limit.

 

speaking of which, you haven't told us those

[MitchellS]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

that's true, but an attack like that can often me mentioned as a large number of dice. makes it seem more impressive than it is.

 

also, without sj's GM telling us so, that 60 AP may be the power's limit, not the damage class cap. If it's the damage class total value cap then you are right. If it's merely the offensive power's cap (without things that are usually added to it) then roy it.

 

I always make a point to tell my players the damage cap AND the AP limit.

If it weren't the damage class cap then everyone would be screwed except bricks and martial artists [bricks can get +12d6 in hth and marital artists could buy +12 DC]. I don't think most GM's would make such a two-sided rule. The guidelines are pretty well spelled out in 5Er on page 28.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

If it weren't the damage class cap then everyone would be screwed except bricks and martial artists [bricks can get +12d6 in hth and marital artists could buy +12 DC]. I don't think most GM's would make such a two-sided rule. The guidelines are pretty well spelled out in 5Er on page 28.

 

we're not talking about most GMs, most GMs wouldn't have let such an abusive character in the game, and therefore we wouldn't be on this thread. We're talking about this GM and we don't know if it's DC or active points

[MitchellS]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

we're not talking about most GMs' date=' most GMs wouldn't have let such an abusive character in the game, and therefore we wouldn't be on this thread. We're talking about [i']this [/i] GM and we don't know if it's DC or active points

Yes, I know. But, if it's DC then 12d6 is the limit. If it's AP per power then the only characters who would benefit from that rule would be bricks or people using martial arts. So if it is AP per power then buy the following:

 

12d6 EB

MA: ranged offensive strike: +4d6 with +8 DC with marial arts

Naked advantage: x2 AP on 12d6 EB.

 

Three different 60 AP powers that can all be added together.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Long winded request for assistance

 

If it weren't the damage class cap then everyone would be screwed except bricks and martial artists [bricks can get +12d6 in hth and marital artists could buy +12 DC]. I don't think most GM's would make such a two-sided rule. The guidelines are pretty well spelled out in 5Er on page 28.

 

eh, that's good for them. personally a 24d6 hth attack isn't that scary at 350 points.

 

also, be more clear about p.28. I see nothing that says anythign about those guidelines. If you are refering to the table, that's not a good source. And here's why...just one example

it says that a standard super heroic character has 40-80 AP in a power and DC of 6-14 But with 80AP I can afford 16 dice of HA

there is also nothing that says that there has to be a corolation between DC limit and AP limit.

 

That doesn't mean you can't lmit it that way. It's just not as cut and dry as you've stated, or at least does not apear to be. Also since these are typical ranges not absolute ones, they are simply to help keep these character's defenses and damage in line with one another, not definate rules.

 

A simple clarification from sjmiller about his GM's desires makes this argument moot anyway