Nadrakas Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Sorry to ask, but I'm looking for a reference or specific Limitation value for the following: +XX to CON, Only vs Being Stunned (ie: If the STUN done to a character exceeds the characters CON then the character is Stunned. See FReD page 410.) Is it a -1/2, -1, or lesser/greater Limitation? Please...any book/page reference would be appreciated. Nadrakas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning I don't have a reference but No Figured Characteristics seems to fit as the only purpose con has then is to help with stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Actually CON has several Functions: 1. Resist Stunning from Damage (STUN damage that exceeds CON) (FReD page 410). 2. ED: 5 pts of CON gives 1 ED. 3. REC: 5 pts of CON gives 1 REC. 4. END: 1 pt of CON gives 2 END. 5. STUN: 5 pts of CON gives 2.5 STUN. The No Figured Characteristic Limitation (NFCL) (-1/2) only applies to figured characteristics, which is Numbers 2 thru 5 above. Number 1 is imbedded into CON and thus is not a Figured Characteristic, so the NFCL does not apply to it. Thus why I am looking for a reference & value for a CON Limitation, Only vs Being Stunned. (Note: Cleaned up my description above so it would be clearer (I hope). Changed from Only vs Stunning to Only vs Being Stunned.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning I've seen this used in supplements with a -1 Limitation value. However, it is debatable as to how limited it is. GM determined really. You could find that old listing of the compiled Advantages/Limitations. Search for TML document. I think it stood for The Master List of modifiers. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Actually CON has several Functions: 1. Resist Stunning from Damage (STUN damage that exceeds CON) (FReD page 410). 2. ED: 5 pts of CON gives 1 ED. 3. REC: 5 pts of CON gives 1 REC. 4. END: 1 pt of CON gives 2 END. 5. STUN: 5 pts of CON gives 2.5 STUN. The No Figured Characteristic Limitation (NFCL) (-1/2) only applies to figured characteristics, which is Numbers 2 thru 5 above. Number 1 is imbedded into CON and thus is not a Figured Characteristic, so the NFCL does not apply to it. Thus why I am looking for a reference & value for a CON Limitation, Only vs Being Stunned. (Note: Cleaned up my description above so it would be clearer (I hope). Changed from Only vs Stunning to Only vs Being Stunned.) I think you missed my point. When you apply NFC on to constitution the only purpose it has then is to resist stunning. So logically -1/2 makes it only usable for resisting stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning I think you missed my point. When you apply NFC on to constitution the only purpose it has then is to resist stunning. So logically -1/2 makes it only usable for resisting stunning. Plus resistance to Diseases, CON Rolls, Powers based on CON, etc... No Figured Characteristics means that it has no effect on the Figured Characteristics, it doesn't limit it in any other way. A lot of this depends on just how often CON is used in an of itself in the campaign as described above. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Plus resistance to Diseases, CON Rolls, Powers based on CON, etc... No Figured Characteristics means that it has no effect on the Figured Characteristics, it doesn't limit it in any other way. A lot of this depends on just how often CON is used in an of itself in the campaign as described above. - Christopher Mullins Good. Point. If you assume all those other things are worth an additional -1/2 then fine. It's really going to depend on the genre and game in question though. In a standard superhero game it really wouldn't come up enough to justify the -1/2 occurance limitation, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning i'll be a middle of the road guy and suggest -3/4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ura-Maru Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning How often do Con rolls actually come up? I'm guessing aproximately never. I know I've never been asked to make one. I'd give it a -1, though. The -1/2 you get for No Figured (-1/2) is kind of skimpy for CON (Not going to bring up STR . . .) and there are a few attacks that target CON. Besides, the other obvious option for the same effect is +1 PD/+1 ED, only to prevent stunning (-1), and CON with a limitation seems a cleaner way to define it. --- "You're lucky! YOU CAN DIE!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning FWIW, I did it as 1/2 for my character in lemming's game. PS - also, if a character is doing it specifically because they might otherwise be stunned, I think they really should only get a -1/2 as -1 seems a gimme, then, it's a deliberate gaming of the system, at least potentially (depending on character concept and points as otherwise spent, though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning I would tack it at -1 .. since CON Rolls come up with some regularity in our games, not to mention CON Drains, Diseases and such (we at least two PCs who use Disease as a weapon - usually as a CON Drain). Now, are you just trying to not get Stunned, CON, Only to Determine if Stunned (-1) works just great. But you'll still take damage... personally my favorite to simulate somone who just can't get knocked dizzy is PD/ED; Only vs STUN Damage (-1), I usually come away from a fight bleeding, but concious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning I'd say -1 for Only to Resist Being Stunned. Power rolls based on CON aren't going to happen that often(unless you're playing a shapeshifter/body manipulator type), but Mental Powers based on CON will come up, so CON rolls to resist neutralizing agents(e.g. Tear Gas, some Poisons etc) is one case I can think of where a CON roll is appropriate in a supers game. It's not a real common occurence, but it's pretty important when it does come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Hmmm...think I'll go with a -1 on this. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning That's okay, you can do it the wrong way... (Seriously, I can see it either way, for my character it was very much a sort of "here's a way to defend" and so it was really worth only -1/2, for others it can make sense to go any number of other ways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning That's okay, you can do it the wrong way... (Seriously, I can see it either way, for my character it was very much a sort of "here's a way to defend" and so it was really worth only -1/2, for others it can make sense to go any number of other ways) How about "2d6 RKA, Only to lay the Smackdown on Smarta__'s (-3)" (That's a Joke...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning How about "2d6 RKA, Only to lay the Smackdown on Smarta__'s (-3)" (That's a Joke...) I think there's a LOT of smartasses so more like -1/4...Foxbat boy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning I think there's a LOT of smartasses so more like -1/4...Foxbat boy... (Pulls Ping Pong Gun..) "You Dirty Rat. You think you can take me!!! Bwahahahaha. I lured you here...to these Forums...as part of my Master Plan!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaahahahhahaahahahahaaaaaaa!!!" Miniature Ping Pong: Ranged Killing Attack - 1 DC Killing Damage (1 point), +46 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10 3/4) (59 Active Points); Stun Only (+0) (6 Real Cost) (Splat) Back at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Now that's a Foxbat build if ever I saw one! Too bad you didn't think about Reflection when you built that power.. Now, really, going off-line, see you later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Now that's a Foxbat build if ever I saw one! Too bad you didn't think about Reflection when you built that power.. Now, really, going off-line, see you later! Well...it is Foxbat afterall. You don't expect him to "win" too often do you? Now...Dr Destroyer on the other hand would have a power that would Reflect the Reflection back at the one who Reflected the initial attack. (Wow...say that fast and 10 times backwards.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning Miniature Ping Pong: Ranged Killing Attack - 1 DC Killing Damage (1 point)' date=' +46 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10 3/4) [i'](59 Active Points)[/i]; Stun Only (+0) (6 Real Cost) How did you get the real cost down to 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning How did you get the real cost down to 6? Limitation: Foxbat Built It (-9). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning what does foxbat mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning How did you get the real cost down to 6? Sorry, I built it in a Multipower and didn't translate everything over (kick self)... (Testing some things...how to "break the system"...from a purely academic point-of-view). Anyway heres the rewrite: Miniature Ping Pong: Ranged Killing Attack - 1 DC Killing Damage (1 point), +46 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10 3/4) (59 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2); Breakable OAF (-1), Stun Only (+0) (24 Real Cost) Nadrakas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrakas Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning what does foxbat mean? Foxbat is a Champions Character. He's a little...nutty. Originated in the Early Days of "Champions" (late '80's, early '90's? Anyone know...) as a "Villain" who can't get a break. He's constantly trying to perfect his "Master Plan"...of the moment (Attention span of a Gnat...). Examples might include stealing all cloth of the same color, painting mustaches on all presidential paintings, painting the Statue of Liberty purple with orange pokadots, etc. Hope this helps. Nadrakas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Re: Con & Stunning ah thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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