Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

[Wilfred_Death]

Reading over some of the disadvantages like "Does not use Hit Locations"

........

I will be using Hit Locations in my campaign ( when it starts ),

I'm also using 'Sectional Armor'

I was wondering However about 'Fire Ball' type spells and Hit locations.

 

Is it normal usage that : RKA AoE Spells Use Hit Locations?

Do I then check different locations for each person in the blast area?

Or do I make Spells Cheaper by using a 'Does Not Use Hit Location' Limitation?

 

After all a small fire ball such as Starting PCs will be able to have has much more affect if it is able to be aimed at the 'Face' where few NPCs will have any armor.

 

Any advice on how this is normally handled?

[Old Man]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Supposedly, the hit location table has an equal probability of either reducing or increasing damage, so whether or not an attack uses hit location ought to be a wash. Whether or not you want to let characters take a limitation on spells that cannot be used for a called shot is up to you. I'd probably let it go; spells in FH need all the limitations they can get.

 

What gets confusing is when you use AOE attacks against sectional armor. I actually can't remember how Steve Long handles that, but in previous versions of FH, characters got a 'general' DEF value based on the total weight of their armor. 4.8kg got you 3 rPD/rED, etc. Then you would use that against most AOE attacks. I can envision AOE attacks that could still use hit location, but not called shots, against all affected targets (Blade Barrier, for example).

[Hierax]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

I'd be careful about letting Area of Effect attacks use hit locations because they can take the weakest point in the opponents.

 

Mind you, one could argue that the hefty +1 Advantage means that they've paid for the targetting privledge.

 

But, personally, the guideline I follow is that a generally targeted attack (like a fireball) can't specifically target a particular hit location (e.g., face).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

I believe the official method is to roll random Hit Locations for AoE attacks if you use Hit Locations. That takes care of sectional defenses. I just do an averaging of defenses and ignore Hit Locations unless I am feeling dramatic about it.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

i want to say that my group uses a flat x3 for explosions, but i don't know if it has ever come up.

[Fitz]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

I base it on the SFX of the AoE attack on a case-by-case basis, and try to stay consistant as far as my ever-worsening memory allows. I think the effect is too broad to try to set rigid rules for whether armour works or not.

 

For example, a 1-hex AoE with the SFX of an un-dodgeable blinding flurry of blows would use HitLocs, and armour would be effective. A 1-hex AoE with the SFX of a cloud of caustic gas wouldn't use HitLocs, and armour would be irrelevant unless it was air-tight.

[MadCow]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Just curious if anyone's considered just using fireball-like spells as NND that do BODY.

 

Being suddenly engulfed in a ball of flame is going to hurt equally whether you're in a full plate of mail or in your birthday suit.

[LordGhee]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Armour will protect you until it is heated up and starts to burn you. As around many campfires where suddenly the guy in armour screams it hot its hot and gets his armour off in record time!

[MadCow]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Hmm... how about, for simplicity sake, the damage from hot armour evens it out then?

 

i.e. Fireball burns unarmoured guy for A damage. Also burns armoured guy for B damage (B < A). A moment later armour burns for C damage. Assume A = B + C (approx).

 

So either way, the same amount of damage is applied and it makes everybody's life easier to just treat the fireball as NND. Perhaps with Limitation: Does only 50% damage if targets make DEX roll (-1/2) ?

[Fitz]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Re fireball spells, there's this to consider: if all that's happening is that the caster is invoking a billowing ball of incandescent gas, then it's likely that any damage is going to be inflicted by flash burns rather than by extended exposure to heat or shock. In that case, ordinary clothing will be just as effective as plate armour at preventing harm, and the spell should probably have the No Knockback limitation. The amount of damage inflicted would be proportional to the amount of exposed skin shown by the victim, so you might build it something like a 2d6 RKA NND Explosion, Does BODY, only up to 1 BODY per exposed HitLoc.

[Wilfred_Death]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

How about if I let it work this way:

If a PC Nominates a target Character; then they get to roll Hit location ( and have to hit the appropriate DCV ) - and get bonuses or whatever, the rest of people in the Area just take 'Damage vs Average DEF'

Or If the PC just nominates a HEX then everyone gets 'Average DEF' and no Hit Locations?

[MadCow]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Re fireball spells' date=' there's this to consider: if all that's happening is that the caster is invoking a billowing ball of incandescent gas, then it's likely that any damage is going to be inflicted by flash burns rather than by extended exposure to heat or shock. In that case, ordinary clothing will be just as effective as plate armour at preventing harm, and the spell should probably have the [i']No Knockback[/i] limitation. The amount of damage inflicted would be proportional to the amount of exposed skin shown by the victim, so you might build it something like a 2d6 RKA NND Explosion, Does BODY, only up to 1 BODY per exposed HitLoc.

 

Just a point of note, the D&D description of a fireball states that "it can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver and bronze."

 

I'm not sure how this could affect armour and/or clothing, but either way even by your method I'd consider increasing the max amount of BODY per exposed HitLoc, and perhaps add another effect to attack the characters' exposed equipment.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

I make it quite easy. All metal armors in my games have only half their DEF for ED (and most of that is from the padded clothing worn underneath). Other armor, such as leather, has its full DEF for both PD and ED. Therefore, leather and plate are both about as effective against a lot of magic (fire, cold, electricity, etc.), and the most rED you are likely to get without magical aid is about 3-4. Then I don't worry about fireballs being NND or anything. They will be pretty effective as is, unless you are going up against monsters with high natural defense (typically equal rPD and rED).

[Cantriped]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Official Rules state that AoEs do not roll for Hit Locations, instead they always damage as though they'd hit the chest. Though personally I'd jsut ignore the Hit-Location rules entirely for AoEs and roll the StunX and all normally

And please, just because the curant system leaves much to be desired is NO reason to constantly lay into DnD, I've played that system since I was 4 (and my mother and father both played for for many year prior that), and by and large they did thier research (the earlier editions morso then the later)

[Old Man]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

No, laying into D&D is a time-honored tradition amongst role-playing gamers, though it's nearly always the game that got us into the hobby in the first place. Even I can have fun playing D&D, though I usually can't resist picking on some of the more poorly-defined rules.

[Trencher]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

The armour you got on your torso is the armour I use for protection against area of effect attacks.

Fire ball should not be nnd because that is to heavy. Use + in stun modifier instead to simulate the painfull burns.

[Cantriped]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Time-honor-ed dosn't make it any less pointless. Saying that curant DnDs rules suck is like saying that Pigs oink, its a give-in

[Wilfred_Death]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Thanks for the help people.

 

I suppose I shouldn't have mentioned the magic words "Fire Ball"

 

I'm setting up a Low AP FH game, where spells can have a Maximum of 60 AP and starting PCs are capped at 45 AP.

 

So Starting Mages might buy a :- D6 +1 RKA Elemental Bolt Earth, with the effect that 'Shards Of Rocks' Stream towards the Target..

And as we're using Hit locations and limited armor you'd probably end up aiming this at the 'thighs' ( Probably no armour on light troops ) Or the Face ( No armour on most troops ) or even at the eyes ( Using the expanded Dark Champions Hit locations )

Combat Mages make aimed Shots with PSLs and such...

 

If later the PC 'expands' this spell to have AoE, they'll lose a lot of effectiveness - if they don't get the Hit Location rolls -

 

Which is why I asked this question.

As for AoE EB's that's not so much of a problem - the 'expanding gas fireball thingy' well I'm quite happy to use Average Defences for that.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

Two points: even when I was playing/GM'ing DandD (and I'm playng in a D20 game at the moment) I tossed that ol' second Ed. thing about fireballs melting some metals straight out the window (the melting point of gold is about 1000 celcius or nearly 2000 farenheit). If the time of exposure was enough to melt even a small quality of metal, it'd be enough to turn anything biological to a rapidly expanding cloud of superheated steam and any other metal red-hot. If we go with the flash-burn thing that makes sense.

 

My approach for area effect attacks (not counting 1 hex accurate or attacks defined as multiple blows) is that they use the *lowest* DEF and just roll standard stun (so, no multipliers). They cannot be aimed (that's the tradeoff for lowest DEF, so they don't get a limit for it). If your arms. leg and face are uncovered when someone shoots you with a jet of acid, it's not going to matter that much what you have on your chest. On the other hand, burns on your chest are no more disabling than burns on your arms. It's not like most area affect attacks are impact or piercing: internal organ/stunning damage is what the location modifiers seem to mostly simulate.

 

For those attacks that ARE penetrating - like hails of spikes, flurries of blows, etc, they DO use hit locations and CAN be aimed - and take whatever defences are on that location.

 

cheers, Mark

[Cantriped]

Re: Fire Balls Spells and Hit Locations.

 

I'd say any AoE attack that has the Selective advantage (you can target and make Attack rolls agaisnt each in AoE seperately) would get a Targeting roll with all aplicable benefits and downsides, as those are assuming to work more like a hail of smaller bolts, while an AoE that aims for the Hex (at DCV 3) should use the normal Stunn roll multiplier for killing attacks (1d6-1) and have the Average of each of the effected character's aplicable defences applied agaisnt it, (For a RKA Fireball that would be the average of every piece of Resistant ED he's got on)