Aid...still broken?

[Drachasor]

(Maybe I should of titled it "Aid: Still too Powerful?")

 

I was working on my character for a new campaign (Champions), and wanted to give him a power he could use to boost himself--background is that he's a 5 dimensional being so this would simulate him tapping into his extradimensional prowess.

 

Than I got this and it seems too broken to use. : (

 

Transdimensional Influx:

Aid 7d6 (70)

Advatnages (+3.5)

Continuous +1

Variable Effect +2 (all characteristics simultaneously)

Variable Effect +.5 (and all gravity powers simultaneously)

AP: 315

Limitations (-2.5):

Self Only -.5

One Use at a Time -.5

Cannot be Pushed: -.25

Extra Phase to Activate: -.5

Concentration 0DCV, unaware of surroundings to activate: -.75

 

RP: 90

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but this is spending 90 Real Points to get about:

 

~+42 Character Points to all characteristics (normal and figured)

+42 to all [insert character's special effect]

 

Well, that's how it would be 99 times out of 100 it seems (you do need to activate it when you wake up, and might want to fiddle around so it has no visible effects)

 

 

Seems better than using Character Points to increase your base stats, since it is much better and you have a crazy amount of Stun, Body, and Endurance that heal themselves quickly (not to mention a PD and ED of 42+).

 

 

Did I do anything fundamentally wrong here? Clearly it explains why they increased aid to 10 points per d6, but it still seems like Aid can be crazy-powerful.

 

-Drachasor

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

For any campaign that will allow for a 315 Active Point power this will work just fine.

 

this is why many games palce Active Point Limits on them.

[incrdbil]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Well, I have a question for you. What is your campaigns active point limit on powers?

 

If you have one, Im pretty confident that this one exceeds it.

 

If you don't..well, there is a wonderful example of a reason to get one.

 

To be nitpicky, the continuous nature of the power seems to negate the disadvantages of concentrate, extra phase--or reduce them to a mere .25. I'ld probably not allow 'cannot be pushed' as a limitation either--whatever amount he would get from pushing is trivial (if any at all..), thus cannot be pushed really isn't limiting the power.

 

And then, after all of these rule based reason to say no to the power (and driving its real cost up), there is the most important reason to veto this particualr power.

 

It's not aid is broken--the players being a munchkin.

 

If you just allow advantages to pile on without limit, heck, some megavillain gets a megascaled attacks affecting the universe with personal immunity, does body on a AVLD.

 

"Phase 12. You start taking 1d6 Stun, 1 body damage unless you have resistant smell flash defense. The attack is coming somewhere 40 light years away. Your action."

 

(Ok, I'm sure somewhere there is somebody out there with that defense. Well, Mr Villain just thinned out the opposition. Or the planet of the stuffed up nose people just established an empire.)

 

Silly example, but despite the valid rules concerns about the power you describe, the basic premise that no system is perfect, and the GM is the first, and best line of defense against game breaking player antics still holds true.

[DrFurious]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

My hero-fu may be a bit rusty but I think your construct may be putting you as well off as you think:

 

The aid should be adding on average about 24 points to stats/powers/etc each time. At some point, the constant END expenditure (-31 + 24= -7 per phase) is gonna knock you into unconscious (END -> burn STUN). Even if you can keep even, you're not gonna be recovering much END after you use any power that costs END. The fade rate has also gotta play into the equation here.

 

Anyways, this screams abusive (two stop-sign advantages) so I'm sure few GMs would allow it in the game.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

My hero-fu may be a bit rusty but I think your construct may be putting you as well off as you think:

 

The aid should be adding on average about 24 points to stats/powers/etc each time. At some point, the constant END expenditure (-31 + 24= -7 per phase) is gonna knock you into unconscious (END -> burn STUN). Even if you can keep even, you're not gonna be recovering much END after you use any power that costs END. The fade rate has also gotta play into the equation here.

 

Anyways, this screams abusive (two stop-sign advantages) so I'm sure few GMs would allow it in the game.

AID doesn't cost END.

 

The Fade Rate will be nulled by the Continuous Fucntion, at best it will come into effect if the Aid is ever Suppressed/Dispelled/Drained or the few Segments Post-12 and before the characters next Phase.

 

Overall, the concept should be looked at carefully - in the case of the specific one presented I would stamp it not because of the Power itself but because as built it exceeds all sense of AP Balance and Common Decency to the game being played. Were it a 1D6 AID I might have a different opinion.

[Drachasor]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Ahh, thanks for the responses. I know the limitations were a bit sketchy (but there are others one could replace them with, I think).

 

I guess the problem is that we don't have an active point limit for powers.

 

Hmm, is 60AP what most Champion games start with?

 

-Drachasor

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Ahh, thanks for the responses. I know the limitations were a bit sketchy (but there are others one could replace them with, I think).

 

I guess the problem is that we don't have an active point limit for powers.

 

Hmm, is 60AP what most Champion games start with?

 

-Drachasor

Yes it is. However, some people will allow a single power to break that and go up to say, 75 points.

[Markdoc]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Look at the active points. Is it a mega-cool power?

 

Sure. He'll be buffed up until exactly the point that someone who spent 315 points on their RKA nails him, at which point he's a highly buffed, expanding cloud of moisture.

 

What that really means is that the character has spent a lot of points, so you'd expect him to be impressive.But he's buffing ALL his abilities. That means he'll have a pretty impressive Stat line but he'll still likely be slower than the fast characters, weaker than the strong characters and so on.

 

Also as a GM I'm not sure I would accept "one use" on a power that is continuous, since there's no real limitation - it really only comes into play if the character is knocked unconscious. So the real cost goes up to 157.

 

cheers, Mark

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

The other thing to keep in mind, Fifth Revised points out that Continious only lasts until maximum effect has been reached and than fade rate kicks in again. He would have to reactivate the power before he gets a boost again.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

The other thing to keep in mind' date=' Fifth Revised points out that Continious only lasts until maximum effect has been reached and than fade rate kicks in again. He would have to reactivate the power before he gets a boost again.[/quote']

Ooh... didn't know that. Good thing to keep in mind. Got a page reference?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

pg. 134

[Jhamin]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

And let me point out that Aid requires a target, and therefore takes an action to activate and ends your phase unless the GM rules otherwise (Specifically mentioned on P103).

 

 

Aid is only really worth it if you add Variable Effects to it & boost multiple characteristics/powers. If you want to boost a single stat (like all those Hulk Clones) you are always better off buying a straight bonus to the stat.

 

Compare:

 

-3d6 Aid to Dex (30 AP. Gain up to 6 Dex, requires several phases to get that high, GM intervention required to avoid taking your whole phase to activate, fades)

 

vs.

 

- Dex +10 (30 AP, 0 phase to activate, Persistant, Provides Figured Characteristics unless you limit it)

 

vs.

 

- Dex +7, Ranged, Useable by Others (31 AP, Ends Phase, it all happens at once, Persistant, Provides Figured Characteristics unless you limit it)

 

 

IMHO, Aid has gone from being broken to being fairly useless without the Variable Effect advantage.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

And let me point out that Aid requires a target, and therefore takes an action to activate and ends your phase unless the GM rules otherwise (Specifically mentioned on P103).

 

 

Aid is only really worth it if you add Variable Effects to it & boost multiple characteristics/powers. If you want to boost a single stat (like all those Hulk Clones) you are always better off buying a straight bonus to the stat.

 

Compare:

 

-3d6 Aid to Dex (30 AP. Gain up to 6 Dex, requires several phases to get that high, GM intervention required to avoid taking your whole phase to activate, fades)

 

vs.

 

- Dex +10 (30 AP, 0 phase to activate, Persistant, Provides Figured Characteristics unless you limit it)

 

vs.

 

- Dex +7, Ranged, Useable by Others (31 AP, Ends Phase, it all happens at once, Persistant, Provides Figured Characteristics unless you limit it)

 

 

IMHO, Aid has gone from being broken to being fairly useless without the Variable Effect advantage.

The only thing about your examples is that you are using the highest costing Characteristic and not taking into consideration that you can AID multiple people.

 

3d6 Aid STR is 30 Active Points and can raise the character anywhere from 1 to 3 DC in STR Damage. It can raise an unlimited number of people. The target can leave sight.

 

+10 STR, Usable Simultaneously, Line of Sight, x16 Targets is 30 Active Points and raises a character by 2 DC. It can only affect 16 people at once and they MUST remain within sight.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

(Maybe I should of titled it "Aid: Still too Powerful?")

 

Contrast this with another thread on these boards which consioders AID a waste of points...

 

Transdimensional Influx:

Aid 7d6 (70)

Advatnages (+3.5)

Continuous +1

Variable Effect +2 (all characteristics simultaneously)

Variable Effect +.5 (and all gravity powers simultaneously)

 

I would not allow the +2 "all characteristics" to then be combined with +.5 for all gravity powers. Rather, I would require a completely separate Aid for Gravity powers.

 

As well, the construct seems to me intended to provide a permanent bonus to all of these abilities, where Aid is intended to provide a temporary boost, so I would likely not allow the apower solely on that basis.

 

Aren't continuous powers supposed to have a relatively common shut-off condition? What is yours?

 

AP: 315

Limitations (-2.5):

Self Only -.5

One Use at a Time -.5

Cannot be Pushed: -.25

Extra Phase to Activate: -.5

Concentration 0DCV, unaware of surroundings to activate: -.75

 

RP: 90

 

What does "one use at a time" mean? It can't mean "you only roll the dice once and that's what you get", or there would be no point having "continuous". Aid has a maximum (42 in this case), so the inability to exceed maximum is not a limitation. I don't see the limitation here.

 

I believe cannot be pushed is meaningless - powers that cost no END cannot be pushed anyway, as I recall, and Aid costs no END.

 

As others have noted, the Extra Time and Concentrate are meaningless given the continuous nature of the power (subject to the shut off condition discussed above).

 

Bottom line - a power with -2.5 in limitations should be pretty limited, buit I don't see yours as being highly limited. The power wouldn't pass the "smell test" in any gakme I've been in. The only thing that may get around this is the "continuous works until you hit maximum and then must be reactivated". That would make the Extra Time and Concentrate limitations valuable. Note, however that this means:

 

(a) The power costs 140 real points, instead of 90, if allowed as a single power. If, as I would do, the GM required two separate AID powers, they would each be 245 AP, and 109 RP = 218 points in aggregate.

 

( You'll spend 2 full phases activating it, at zero DCV. That's foiur full phases if broken into two separate powers.

 

© The fade rate will kick in at the end of that turn, and you need another 2 (or 4) phases at 0 DCV to reactivate it if you want to re-bost the effect.

 

Is that a good use of 218 points?

 

Seems better than using Character Points to increase your base stats' date=' since it is much better and you have a crazy amount of Stun, Body, and Endurance that heal themselves quickly (not to mention a PD and ED of 42+).[/quote']

 

This comes down to how one reads "all characteristics or powers of a given special effect". If one reads the qualifier of "guven special effect" as applying to characteristics, as well as powers, allowing all characteristics to be affected seems very generous. I'd have to ask what kind of common bond exists between, say, STR, INT and COM to alow them all to be boosted simultaneously. At the same time, for +1, one can affect 4 characteristics.

 

Your defenses would be disallowedin my game. I can't speak for anyone else. And that's before considering any defenses you may have if the Aid is down.

 

There is a final test I apply to any power I build. "Would it be OK if we encountered a villain team who all shared this power?" As a GM, I would consider taking the construct to the group, saying "This is under consideration as a legit power construct. If I allow it, both heroes and villains can purchase it. DO you guys think we should allow it, or house rule it away?"

 

In this case, however, I see mechanical flaws in the power (as well as the issue of AP caps, defense caps, DC caps, etc.) likely closing it down before I would take that step.

[Zed-F]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

The only thing about your examples is that you are using the highest costing Characteristic and not taking into consideration that you can AID multiple people.

 

3d6 Aid STR is 30 Active Points and can raise the character anywhere from 1 to 3 DC in STR Damage. It can raise an unlimited number of people. The target can leave sight.

 

+10 STR, Usable Simultaneously, Line of Sight, x16 Targets is 30 Active Points and raises a character by 2 DC. It can only affect 16 people at once and they MUST remain within sight.

The problem is, 90+% of the time you use Aid, you don't need to aid more than one person. If you have an Aid STR, and a task that requires strength to do that exceeds anyone currently present, then you generally pick the guy that's the strongest to start with, boost him, and let him take care of it. Otherwise, most of the time you're going to be using it on yourself to boost your own combat effectiveness.

 

Using Aid STR as a kind of 'potion of superheroism' that you can dole out to all passers-by won't really work because the people you're Aiding aren't any tougher than they normally are, just stronger. Joe Normal may be an eggshell with a sledgehammer with this power up, but he's still an eggshell. Not to say there aren't situations where it will help, such as disaster recovery operations, but those are generally not so common. If you start using your Aid to boost everyone under the sun just because you can, that's not very in-genre, so expect the GM to have issues with it.

[Zed-F]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Contrast this with another thread on these boards which consioders AID a waste of points...

 

When used for legitimate constructs that pass the smell test, Aid is largely a waste of points compared to straight-purchased characteristics or Succor. Of course, both are quite possible to abuse if no limits are applied, as seen here.

[Drachasor]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Aren't continuous powers supposed to have a relatively common shut-off condition? What is yours?

 

Under the the descriptions for Duration, Adjustment Powers, Aid, and Duration Advantages: Continuous there is no mention of this. Some particular powers say something like this perhaps, but not Aid.

 

 

What does "one use at a time" mean? It can't mean "you only roll the dice once and that's what you get", or there would be no point having "continuous". Aid has a maximum (42 in this case), so the inability to exceed maximum is not a limitation. I don't see the limitation here.

 

One use at a time does indeed limit it. Consider a 60 AP power:

 

30 AP for 3d6 Aid to Endurance

+1 Continuous (60 AP)

(one could add self only if one wants)

 

If you can use it more than once on yourself, say 6 times, then you would roll 6*3d6 each phase. True, you would be capped at an extra 18 Endurance, but that means you could count on having about 18 extra endurance each phase instead of adding an average amount of 10.

 

(Any comments on this? Aid Stun and Aid End seem bad on their own, and you can have them continous for 60AP or less)

 

 

I believe cannot be pushed is meaningless - powers that cost no END cannot be pushed anyway, as I recall, and Aid costs no END.

 

Ahh, yes, forgot that. I'm new to the system so I make some mistakes here and there. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

The only thing that may get around this is the "continuous works until you hit maximum and then must be reactivated". That would make the Extra Time and Concentrate limitations valuable. Note, however that this means

 

Hmm, interesting idea. However, Aid's section on adjustments goes over continuous including an example of losing 5 points from the max and aid kicking back in to boost it up again the next phase.

 

This comes down to how one reads "all characteristics or powers of a given special effect". If one reads the qualifier of "guven special effect" as applying to characteristics, as well as powers, allowing all characteristics to be affected seems very generous. I'd have to ask what kind of common bond exists between, say, STR, INT and COM to alow them all to be boosted simultaneously. At the same time, for +1, one can affect 4 characteristics.

 

Well, they say you can name a certain number of characteristics explicitely under the Variable Effect rules for Adjustment powers (and they include an example of boosting PD).

 

 

Anyhow, thanks for all the input guys, I'm trying to make sure my character stays somewhat reasonable. The GM seems to be fine with things being somewhat unreasonable though (he helped another player make a character that has 60 PD and ED and a 12d6 attack starting out with 350 points)*. I think even with that though, the Aid thing would be bad....not sure about a continuous End Boost though.

 

-Drachasor

 

*Largely by allowing anything at all to go into Elemental Controls, I believe--and yes I did query him about that and how it didn't jive with the standard rules.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

I find Aid one of those funny abilities which is hard to appropriately price because of the differences between heroic and superheroic games.

 

Consider a 3d6 STR aid with a fade rate of 5 points per hour.

 

Supers

 

You can Aid as many people as you want, but it's not really in genre tio have everyone running around with boosted STR. Besides, a +18 STR on a typical energy projector or mentalist isn't going to make it a primary attack mode. And you can buy yourself +30 STR that doesn't require attack actions to maintain, and gives figured characteristics, for 30 points - less than the price of the Advantaged Aid.

 

Heroic

 

Hmmm...+18 STR would now have cost 36 points if it exceeds the NCM, still cheaper to Aid on one guy with an hour fade rate, plus figured char apply. Buffing up the entire party in, say, a Fantasy game (spells) or a SciFi game (augmentation tech or drugs) seems a lot more in genre here, so multiple uses will be reasonable.

 

That extra 3 1/2d6 damage in HTH probably makes HTH combat a pretty powerful option - especially if I'm in a location where weapons are checked at the door.

 

My warrior doesn't need to waste skill levels boosting damage on his weapons any more, so his OCV and DCV can be enhanced instead. My martial arts Monk is loving this! Even my wizard has a nice backup attack he doesn't need Gestures and Incantations for, and can escape Entangles much easier.

 

Pretty powerful in Heroic games.

[Drachasor]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

I was pretty sure Aid and other Adjustment powers ignored the maximum attribute rule.--ignore that I misread what you wrote (my apologies).

 

The only limit for End and Stun aid that I could see is that if you End + Aid End is more than your normal Max End then you gain no End during a recovery phase--the same thing applies for stun. Not much of a hindrance, I don't think.

 

Aid is pretty odd, I agree.

 

-Drachasor

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Under the the descriptions for Duration' date=' Adjustment Powers, Aid, and Duration Advantages: Continuous there is no mention of this. Some particular powers say something like this perhaps, but not Aid.[/quote']

 

I don't have the boks in front of me (at work). However, I believe Continuous poiwers that cost no END are warned as a high risk area, and a common shutoff condition recommended.

 

Thinking about it, doesn't Continuous on an attack power mean only that you get to keep using it, phase after phase, with no further attack roll, but still cvsting a half phase action? If you don't want to use a half phase action, I believe it also needs to be Uncontrolled (which, I believe, is where the 0 END caveat apears, not with Continuous).

 

One use at a time does indeed limit it. Consider a 60 AP power:

 

30 AP for 3d6 Aid to Endurance

+1 Continuous (60 AP)

(one could add self only if one wants)

 

If you can use it more than once on yourself, say 6 times, then you would roll 6*3d6 each phase. True, you would be capped at an extra 18 Endurance, but that means you could count on having about 18 extra endurance each phase instead of adding an average amount of 10.

 

On a continuous Aid power, I do not see this being limiting enough to merit a -1/2 (or even -1/4). Once the first OCntinuouis aid is running, you will hit your max in the second phase, on average, so the inability to add a second Aid on the second phase is pretty meaningless. I'm not certain your mechanics are correct either. Continuous eliminates the need to make an attack roll, but not the half phase cost.

 

Hmm' date=' interesting idea. However, Aid's section on adjustments goes over continuous including an example of losing 5 points from the max and aid kicking back in to boost it up again the next phase.[/quote']

 

Again, no books here, so I'm going from another poster's comments. A change between Fred and 5re, perhaps?

 

Well' date=' they say you can name a certain number of characteristics explicitely under the Variable Effect rules for Adjustment powers (and they include an example of boosting PD).[/quote']

 

Mechanically, yes, you can Aid PD and ED. However, the GM needs to consider the impoact of PD and ED totals on the balance of the game. If, in my game, defenses range from 15-25, I'm not going to allow a power that adds 42 points of PD and ED. Now, if your GM routinely allows defenses of 60, this won't be an issue in your game. But if everyone else has 60 DEF< that 12d6 attack you mention is a peashooter at best.

 

And we come back to defining sfx of the power - a power that just boosts all characteristics strikes me as more gamist than anything else, and I'd want an explanation of its sfx. However, the bigger concern would have to be how many villains I'll buy the power for - "legal for you" means "legal for everyone".

 

On the topic of End and Stun, note that Aid cannot restore lost points. Your aid would add 42 to Stun and 84 to End (assume it's maxed out at the start of combat, and you now have 80 Stun and 160 END). If you then spend 50 END and get hit for 40 STUN. You have 40 Stun (80 max) and 110 END (160 max). Your Aid doesn't kick in next phase and recover these - you are already as Aided as you can get.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

The problem is, 90+% of the time you use Aid, you don't need to aid more than one person. If you have an Aid STR, and a task that requires strength to do that exceeds anyone currently present, then you generally pick the guy that's the strongest to start with, boost him, and let him take care of it. Otherwise, most of the time you're going to be using it on yourself to boost your own combat effectiveness.

 

Using Aid STR as a kind of 'potion of superheroism' that you can dole out to all passers-by won't really work because the people you're Aiding aren't any tougher than they normally are, just stronger. Joe Normal may be an eggshell with a sledgehammer with this power up, but he's still an eggshell. Not to say there aren't situations where it will help, such as disaster recovery operations, but those are generally not so common. If you start using your Aid to boost everyone under the sun just because you can, that's not very in-genre, so expect the GM to have issues with it.

Not necessarily. It really depends a lot on both character concept and even to a degree, Genre.

 

First, in either a low point or Low Fantasy game, the benefits of a carefully designed AID is going to be very in-genre.

 

Inner Will 1d6 AID STR, Delayed Rate of Return (1 Minute; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (17 Active Points); Requires a Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Costs Endurance to Activate (-1/4), IIF (-1/4). Total Cost: 9 points.

 

This is an incredibly powerful, and flexible spell. In combat, the wizard stays back and gives small boosts to the people in battle who need it. A good roll improves the target by a DC and 1 PD. An okay roll could allow a warrior to use a 1 1/2-handed weapon with two hands and get an extra DC. Out of combat, the wizard can cast it on each of his party members to improve their lifting abilities by 50-100 kg allowing them to work together to move a heavy boulder or raise a portcullis.

 

Also, it really depends on character concept. I had a villain team that consisted of five members. The fifth member was rarely present and if he was, he simply stood back and watched. But what wasn't known to the players is that his super power was that he held an Mind Link with everyone on his team and if he held a gemstone he could use a ranged AID on any one target he could see. He might have had two rubies and boosted the STR of two different members or he might have held a diamond and an emerald and raised CON and BODY of two members.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

I don't have the boks in front of me (at work). However' date=' I believe Continuous poiwers that cost no END are warned as a high risk area, and a common shutoff condition recommended.[/quote']The shutoff is automatic in AID. It says that a Continuous Advantage on AID causes the power to automatically AID without a drop in points generated until maximum effect is reached.

 

It is implied that the power shuts off once maximum effect is reached.

[Zed-F]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

Thinking about it, doesn't Continuous on an attack power mean only that you get to keep using it, phase after phase, with no further attack roll, but still cvsting a half phase action? If you don't want to use a half phase action, I believe it also needs to be Uncontrolled (which, I believe, is where the 0 END caveat apears, not with Continuous).

I am pretty sure that continuous means you do not have to keep spending attack actions to maintain the attack. What Uncontrolled does is divorce the PC from needing to even so much as be present any longer. With Continuous, you have to maintain LOS to the target, you have to remain unstunned, and you have to keep paying END for the attack to continue to work, but you're perfectly free to make other attacks while you maintain the first one.

 

It really depends a lot on both character concept and even to a degree, Genre.

I'll agree that genre plays a big deal here. Boosting one or two people with an Aid is fine in a supers game, but usually not more. A heroic-level story is another matter.

[Jhamin]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

The only thing about your examples is that you are using the highest costing Characteristic and not taking into consideration that you can AID multiple people.

 

The Characteristic doesn't really matter. If you had a 3d6 aid to Con, Body, or Int you would still get more of the Char if you spent the same active points on the Char directly.

 

 

And you are correct in pointing out that Aid can be used on multiple people. I just know that for every "Giant Strength Spell" Aid that the wizard can cast on the party, I see 10 "Hulk Smash" self boosters. (see Adrenalin Surge in Ultimate Brick for an official example)

 

My main argument is that Aid isn't the best power for the use I see it put to 90% of the time.

[Drachasor]

Re: Aid...still broken?

 

On the topic of End and Stun' date=' note that Aid cannot restore lost points. Your aid would add 42 to Stun and 84 to End (assume it's maxed out at the start of combat, and you now have 80 Stun and 160 END). If you then spend 50 END and get hit for 40 STUN. You have 40 Stun (80 max) and 110 END (160 max). Your Aid doesn't kick in next phase and recover these - you are already as Aided as you can get.[/quote']

 

The description of Continuous under Aid clearly states that when it hits the max it naturally doesn't add more points. Once it degrades though (5 points usually) on your next phase it kicks in again and aid points. Lost points are first taken from the boosted pools. So if you have 18 extra End from Aid, and spend 10 End in a phase, then the next phase you roll your aid and aid that to your boosted amount, since that 10 end came from the boosted part, not your normal amount. It is true, however, that if you spent 30 End, and then had 12+ End from Aid on your next recovery phase, then you'd gain no End during your recovery (since if your Current End + Aid End >= Max Normal End you recover nothing). That seems like a relatively small problem when you are gaining 3d6 End every phase.

 

In short it seems better to spend points on Continuous End Aid rather than Recovery. Sure, you can spend 30 points on Recovery and then recover 40+ points each recovery phase. On the other hand, if you spend the same amount on a Continous Aid you can probably have a 3d6 effect which averages 10.5 "recovered" End each Phase. A little less consistent, but equal to or better than the Recovery if you have Speed 4 or more (and you don't need to worry about running out of End as much, since the gain is more consistent).

 

So, the bigger issue with Stun and End Continuous Aids, I think, is that they are basically like a fairly cheap regeneration effect for those two characteristics.

 

-Drachasor