Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Nowhere near enough to justify that character. As noted, the character had stopped being fun to use a few campaigns prior. Nobody likes to hobble their every move, and even though I don't care too much for 'combat only' type games, I do like to be able to participate with my teammates. Not an option with that character. I was constantly evolving his personality to find reasons why he wouldn't attack anyone, etc.

 

But I digress.

 

The power level of this character outstripped the upper limits of the campaigns in general during the fourth campaign. Despite my own desires, he was around for seven or eight more....

Wow. That's a tough one. I guess I would have tried for the indirect approach. You know, eating skyscrapers (evacuated ones, of course) in order to boost that Presence Attack and such. Perhaps only so much you can do with that, though, and that example especially doesn't exactly help the publicity issue.... Heh. I feel fer ya man.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Here's a Limitation for Speed I'd like to see:

 

Each phase only works if plan of action is already made (-3/4).

 

Now that's a pet peeve of mine.

 

"Ultra Fury, you're up."

"OK, um... What just happened? Where'd Darkvixen go? I was punching her in Segment 6? Oh, there she is. How'd she get there? Uh... OK... Hold on a sec..." ::reaches for rulebook::

 

GAAAAAAAH!!!!!!! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE!

Oh that annoys me to absolutely no end... You'd think people would pay attention to combat!! augh!

[archermoo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Oh that annoys me to absolutely no end... You'd think people would pay attention to combat!! augh!

 

Yeah, I've gamed with a few people that would wander off (mentally or physically) while it wasn't their phase, and then have no idea what was going on or what they wanted to do, and spend the next 15 minutes trying to figure it out. Annoying...

 

"Hey Bri, it's your turn."

 

"Oh. What's happening?"

 

"The fight, remember?"

 

"Where'd my opponent go?"

 

"Bob took him out."

 

"Oh. Which figures are the bad guys?"

 

etc...

[radioKAOS]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

I think that character had the most complex, most fully-developed personality of any character ever, period. Lots of time to enjoy little else, after all.

 

Characters like that are what makes the games worth playing. I went to school for acting, and I take that point of view when roleplaying. Stats and skills and such are just game mechanics that make my character go. It's like driving a car... Enjoy the drive, worry less about how the engine works, so long as it does.

 

I had one character in VtM, [we started back in 91 when it came out, we had one of the first VtM books in Canada] who literally came to life off of the page. Marcus scared me at times, he was so real. I honestly had no control over what he would do, lol. On numerous occasions I asked to spend a willpoer point to have him NOT do something that I knew he would do... the Storyteller just looked at me and said "You, the player, want to spend a willpower point for the character??? Just allow the character to do what he will, let him have his willpower points to succeed at things he really wants to succeed at."

 

Oh yeah, he succeeded alright... in becoming the "villain behind the scenes" of every campaign run by any of those players involved since... Great endless source of material though, Marcus buying his way out of hell and returning to earth, numerous times...

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Cool!

 

I have to admit that playing Power did eventually become enjoyable, at least for a while. I've mentioned in other threads that he was very useful-- holding together a suspension bridge while the heroes battled with villains and saved people from an earthquake, etc---

 

I enjoyed finding both non-combat ways to make him uber-useful during combat sessions (and I think the GM appreciated that as well), since he did at his heart want to help people. He went on many search-and-rescues in locations that were inaccessable to others simply for the preparation time rescuers would require, etc---

 

And I enjoyed creating a cohesive, understandable personality that would have the power he had and still refuse to enter a slug-fest if it were at all possible, and even then he would prefer to restrain opponents without blows.

 

=== That trait came about during the second campaign, actually. Yes, it was a bit of meta-gaming, in that I thought it might convince the other players that there was no value in my continuing to use what was supposed to have been a throw-away character. During a combat scene, an Agent was bedevilling him with a paralysis ray. (Power was created with a 12 DEX, and he retired with a 12 DEX. I'm proud of that, both for staying true to character, and a serious attempt to make him less combat useful). Eventually, the Agent ran out of charges. Power, now extremely angry at being made to look foolish (long story-- the Agent was enjoying it too much :roll: ), he took a furious swing at the Agent, who easily dove under a garbage truck for cover. Power hit the truck. The truck litterally exploded apart, and the Agent was killed-handwaved-to-almost-dead from the damage.

 

Power had a CvK, and decided in that instant that he could not trust himself to come to blows with anyone, period. He remained loyal to that vow with only two exceptions until he 'retired.'===

 

So yes, I have to admit that playing the living, breathing portion of the character was fun, but really, during the action, I was forced, for the sake of the game, to find a way to make myself part of the background. It does rob a little from the fun, you know.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

So yes, I have to admit that playing the living, breathing portion of the character was fun, but really, during the action, I was forced, for the sake of the game, to find a way to make myself part of the background. It does rob a little from the fun, you know.

 

Yeah, I can understand that... being the 'best' yet not allowed to compete is a little frustrating...

 

Ah well, at least you got to retire him in an appropriate manner. Sometimes that's the best part of a character.

[Pogo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Here's a Limitation for Speed I'd like to see:

 

Each phase only works if plan of action is already made (-3/4).

 

Now that's a pet peeve of mine.

 

"Ultra Fury, you're up."

"OK, um... What just happened? Where'd Darkvixen go? I was punching her in Segment 6? Oh, there she is. How'd she get there? Uh... OK... Hold on a sec..." ::reaches for rulebook::

 

GAAAAAAAH!!!!!!! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE!

 

When players were first learning the system (Hero for one group, Torg for another), I was very tolerant of this sort of behavior, but after two or three months, I started using time limits. After around minute of reasonable thinking (should I attack with X, Y, or Z), or half of minute of dithering (should I recover? attack? dodge? snarf chips?) I would say, "OK, you're holding your action," and move on to the next character. When Mr. Indecisive had a plan, he could take his action. It wasn't a problem for most of the players, but two players took around five months to get the hang of it. Combat moved much more rapidly after that.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

When players were first learning the system (Hero for one group' date=' Torg for another), I was very tolerant of this sort of behavior, but after two or three months, I started using time limits. After around minute of reasonable thinking (should I attack with X, Y, or Z), or half of minute of dithering (should I recover? attack? dodge? snarf chips?) I would say, "OK, you're holding your action," and move on to the next character. When Mr. Indecisive had a plan, he could take his action. It wasn't a problem for most of the players, but two players took around five months to get the hang of it. Combat moved much more rapidly after that.[/quote']

Y'know, that probably would've worked, if the rest of the players didn't all do the same thing.

 

I swear, some days I thought I was the only one eagerly anticipating my action. There I'd be, waiting and waiting and waiting, then, "Okay, move 3 hexes, then energy attack, on that guy." *roll* "Hit." *roll* "5 body, annnnnnd . . . 20 stun." Then I'd wait for another hour . . .

 

Gah. So frustrating . . .

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

You guys should try playing with a full pack of heavy smokers who have to step outside (all at once) for a smoke break every 10-15 minutes, and invariably wind up doing it just as the action is picking up and we need decisive action, leaving a couple of us sitting inside twiddling our thumbs while the majority of the group piles outside. Gggrrrraaaaahhhhhh!

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

You guys should try playing with a full pack of heavy smokers who have to step outside (all at once) for a smoke break every 10-15 minutes' date=' and invariably wind up doing it [i']just[/i] as the action is picking up and we need decisive action, leaving a couple of us sitting inside twiddling our thumbs while the majority of the group piles outside. Gggrrrraaaaahhhhhh!

That DOES sound frustrating.

 

If I was the GM for that game, I'd make them all go on the patch. Just for game sessions, mind you, but I wouldn't let them play without it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

You guys should try playing with a full pack of heavy smokers who have to step outside (all at once) for a smoke break every 10-15 minutes' date=' and invariably wind up doing it [i']just[/i] as the action is picking up and we need decisive action, leaving a couple of us sitting inside twiddling our thumbs while the majority of the group piles outside. Gggrrrraaaaahhhhhh!

 

As a smoker myself, if I'm playing a game, I don't take smoke breaks unless the GM takes a break or is specifically concentrating on another character in a non-combat situation. Usually this means no smokes until after the game.

 

When I GM, I'll call for a comercial break at some times, and go smoke (taking along half of my group, who also smoke). I try not to do this turning combat, but if I do, it's turning post phase 12, and hopefully right before something nasty is about to happen to a PC.

[Basil]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

No Conscious Control If Player Isn't Paying Attention.

 

That's in Hero System terms---sorta. The idea comes from a D&D-oid game I once played with a GM who, if he thought someone wasn't paying attention, would call their name, point at them, and snap out a question about the combat. The questions were usually things like "About what fraction of the crowd of kobolds have been killed?" or "Who's been using fire magic?" Not too detailed, but enough to show if the player was paying attention.

 

If the player couldn't answer, the GM took over the character for the next action. Which was usually charging into, or out of, HtH combat.

 

The player could reply "challenge!" and the GM had to point to someone else (GM's choice), and ask the same question. If the second player couldn't answer, the first was off the hook. If he could, the GM controlled the next two actions of the character.

 

All in all, it kept the players paying attention very closely, but the GM couldn't abuse it by asking too recondite questions.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

As a smoker myself, if I'm playing a game, I don't take smoke breaks unless the GM takes a break or is specifically concentrating on another character in a non-combat situation. Usually this means no smokes until after the game.

 

When I GM, I'll call for a comercial break at some times, and go smoke (taking along half of my group, who also smoke). I try not to do this turning combat, but if I do, it's turning post phase 12, and hopefully right before something nasty is about to happen to a PC.

Admirable of you. I don't mind breaks at times, but when I'm GMing and trying to get everyone into the story or the action, and just building up the tension, and suddenly my grip on the energy crumbles and falls out from under me because everyone just gets up and walks off (usually with the assumption that cigs are first priority and everyone should know that and accept it as unspoken law), it gets me a little steamed. Heh.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Admirable of you. I don't mind breaks at times' date=' but when I'm GMing and trying to get everyone into the story or the action, and just building up the tension, and suddenly my grip on the energy crumbles and falls out from under me because everyone just gets up and walks off (usually with the assumption that cigs are first priority and everyone should know that and accept it as unspoken law), it gets me a little steamed. Heh.[/quote']

 

Sorry, but if anyone gets up to leave for a cigarette in my game I would take it as an insult.

 

Thankfully the crew [back in Windsor, On] I've been playing with for years is mature enough to keep the story/energy/tension going, and only take a break when appropriate. Usually as GM I would call when the breaks are, and leave it at a cliffhanger, of course.

[archermoo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Sorry, but if anyone gets up to leave for a cigarette in my game I would take it as an insult.

 

Thankfully the crew [back in Windsor, On] I've been playing with for years is mature enough to keep the story/energy/tension going, and only take a break when appropriate. Usually as GM I would call when the breaks are, and leave it at a cliffhanger, of course.

 

I've never taken it as an insult. Any more than I take it as an insult when someone takes a bathroom break. It can be annoying and inconvenient, but c'est la vie. Though it's been a few years since I gamed with any smokers.

 

Only time I ever had any problem gaming with smokers has been when the Ref was a smoker and used times that he needed to talk to players by himself to also grab a quick smoke. Great for not being away from the table for more time than necessary, but I'm allergic to cig smoke. So it ends up having the effect of making me steer myself away from doing things that would require one-on-one time with the Ref.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Admirable of you. I don't mind breaks at times' date=' but when I'm GMing and trying to get everyone into the story or the action, and just building up the tension, and suddenly my grip on the energy crumbles and falls out from under me because everyone just gets up and walks off (usually with the assumption that cigs are first priority and everyone should know that and accept it as unspoken law), it gets me a little steamed. Heh.[/quote']

 

Smoking is a habit. Gaming is a hobby. My hobbies are always more important than my habits.

 

Well except for cafiene. But fortunately I can incorperate that into almost every activity I can conceivably take part in.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

I've never taken it as an insult. Any more than I take it as an insult when someone takes a bathroom break. It can be annoying and inconvenient' date=' but c'est la vie. Though it's been a few years since I gamed with any smokers.[/quote']

 

What annoys me about some of my players (not all the time, but sometimes), is when one person goes to the bathroom, or even gets up for a drink and is gone for more than 10 seconds, the smokers will detect a pause and go for a smoke, even though the pause isn't going to last that long, and they can still get some role-playing in while waiting. If it starts happening too often, I'll suggest they provide an outdoor area we can play at regularly so they can smoke like chimneys and still play the game.

 

Only time I ever had any problem gaming with smokers has been when the Ref was a smoker and used times that he needed to talk to players by himself to also grab a quick smoke. Great for not being away from the table for more time than necessary, but I'm allergic to cig smoke. So it ends up having the effect of making me steer myself away from doing things that would require one-on-one time with the Ref.

 

I've caught myself doing this actually. I try not to, because not all of my players smoke, and the ones that don't smoke shouldn't be forced to endure mine as they find out about the dreadful secret their character just uncovered. It still happens though, but I try not to.

[archermoo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

What annoys me about some of my players (not all the time' date=' but sometimes), is when one person goes to the bathroom, or even gets up for a drink and is gone for more than 10 seconds, the smokers will detect a pause and go for a smoke, even though the pause isn't going to last that long, and they can still get some role-playing in while waiting. If it starts happening too often, I'll suggest they provide an outdoor area we can play at regularly so they can smoke like chimneys and still play the game.[/quote']

 

Yeah, but of course it doesn't just happen with smoking. Someone will hit the head for a pee break, so someone else will head to the kitchen for a snack, etc. At least with smokers you know where they are...

 

I've caught myself doing this actually. I try not to' date=' because not all of my players smoke, and the ones that don't smoke shouldn't be forced to endure mine as they find out about the dreadful secret their character just uncovered. It still happens though, but I try not to. [/quote']

 

Oh, I understand it, and it even makes sense. I'm just a wierdo in that not only do I have the fairly standard non-smoker reaction to smoke (ick), but I also have an allergic reaction (runny nose, clogged sinuses, mild nausea and mild fever). Heck, if I could count on the wind not shifting it wouldn't be so bad, but of course the only thing cig smoke likes better than a non-smoker is someone who's allergic...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

...but of course the only thing cig smoke likes better than a non-smoker is someone who's allergic...

Sort of like cats, eh?

[archermoo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Sort of like cats' date=' eh?[/quote']

 

Exactly!

 

Though on that note, cats often don't know what to do with me. I'm not allergic, and I don't hate them. But I also don't really like most of them (though there have been notable exceptions). So for the most part I'm indifferent to them. Often they'll come over carefully and bat at me. When I scritch them, they wander away, seeming to expect me to try and coax them back. When I ignore them it seems to confuse them. "Hey, you aren't playing the game right!" they seem to think.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

"Hey' date=' you aren't playing the game right!" they seem to think. [/quote']

 

"The game has rules, Mr. Sulu; you're ignoring them. I protest and you...come...back!" [/uhuru]

 

 

(Should "quoting Star Trek" or "quoting Star Wars" go on the list with "quoting Monty Python"? )

[archermoo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

"The game has rules' date=' Mr. Sulu; you're ignoring them. I protest and you...come...back!" [/uhuru']

 

 

(Should "quoting Star Trek" or "quoting Star Wars" go on the list with "quoting Monty Python"? )

 

Dunno, since I personally LIKE it when people quote stuff during gaming sessions. At least when it is done in appropriate situations...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Heck' date=' if I could count on the wind not shifting it wouldn't be so bad, but of course the only thing cig smoke likes better than a non-smoker is someone who's allergic... [/quote']

 

Yeah, why is that? From the smoker's perspective, I know for fact the wind always shifts toward the nonsmokers. Resteraunts and airplanes know it, that's why they got rid of all the smoking sections. If you want to find a non-smoker, just light up and follow the smoke!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

"The game has rules' date=' Mr. Sulu; you're ignoring them. I protest and you...come...back!" [/uhuru']

 

 

(Should "quoting Star Trek" or "quoting Star Wars" go on the list with "quoting Monty Python"? )

 

Everything in the realm of quoting is offlimits if it is completley out of context, or someone feels the need to recite an entire scene like it's one of the great soliloquies of Shakespear or something.

 

And I don't care if the team is using radios in game, you don't have to make that *krrrrk* static noise all the storm troopers make when talking!

[archermoo]

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often

 

Yeah' date=' why is that? From the smoker's perspective, I know for fact the wind always shifts toward the nonsmokers. Resteraunts and airplanes know it, that's why they got rid of all the smoking sections. If you want to find a non-smoker, just light up and follow the smoke![/quote']

 

tongue-in-cheek]I always figured it was a comparative concentration thing. Substances tend to flow from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration. Since smokers already have a high concentration of smoke in their system, it flows out to the non-smokers, who obviously have a much lower concentration.[/tongue-in-cheek