Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

[Phil]

I want to determine the approximate cost of Hero Points by costing them out as if they were a multipower with non-recoverable charges.

 

Context: I'm in the middle of preparing a tweaked version of HERO for use in a Middle Earth first age game. In this, one of the mechanisms I am using to balance Elves (who kick *** like Orlando Bloom can only dream about) and Humans (who kick *** a lot less than Elves) is a fundamental metaphysical difference between elves and men, which is that elves can function outside of God's great plan, whereas Elves cannot. I.e. Free will.

 

The way I'm planning on implementing this is some sort of hero points, which will allow re-rolls, protection against life threatening blows and such like. The problem I have is costing these little blighters!

 

Doing it strictly by the book, I see each Hero point as being a non-recoverable charge in a multipower. One of the ultra slots is either a Heal or extra rPD or similar. That's fine. I have *no* idea how to cost the re-roll, but I'd quite like to keep that as the mechanic rather than simply having a few Skill Levels as one of the possible slots.

 

Would also welcome other suggestions for what might go in this Hero Point multipower.

 

Two extra points: Firstly, the multipower wont be costed out on the charactersheet - it'll just say 'Hero Points'. This exercise is just to give me a Q&D estimate of their points value. The ease of comparison within HERO is one of the main reasons I'm using the system. Secondly, Please dont suggest hate Luck, I hate it and wont touch it with a barge pole

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Here's the rules and costs that I and my co-GM have used in our game for over 2 years, with no game balance problems:

 

Hero Points

 

Every character begins play with 1 Permanent Hero Point

 

In a non-Combat situation, a Hero Point can do 1 of these:

* Double a Characteristic for 1 action

* Double the number of dice in a Power for 1 action

* Character's next roll automatically succeeds

(Skill check, Characteristic check, etc.)

 

In a Combat situation, a Hero Point can do 1 of these:

* Add 25 Active Pts to an existing Power or Char for 1 action

* Character's next roll automatically succeeds

(Attack roll, Skill check, Characteristic check, etc.)

* Next Attack roll AGAINST the character automatically misses

* Character's STUN = 25, END = +25 (fades in 1 minute)

 

Characters may only ever expend 1 Hero Point per any given action

 

Expending a Hero Point uses HALF the Character's current END...

the only exception to this is the last option on the "Combat

situation" list

 

Characters may purchase extra Permanent Hero Points at a cost

of 25 points each.

 

Characters may purchase Temporary Hero Points at a cost

of 5 points each [this is figured as purchasing a 25 point

Power with the Limitation "1 Charge Never Recovers (-4)"]

 

The maximum number of Permanent Hero Points a character may have

is equal to their Reputation Level + 1

 

The maximum number of Temporary Hero Points a character may have

is equal to their Max Perm Hero Points + 1

 

Temporary Hero Points, once expended, are gone for good. Permanent Hero Points are recovered at the end of the adventure.

[Phil]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Which works fine because *every* character gets them. The issue I have is that only Human characters will get Hero points. Hence my desire to roughly cost it out.

 

Nice suggestions on some possible effects though!

[Zed-F]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Personally, I would try to keep this as abstract as possible. If you are using non-recoverable charges, I would skip that and replace it with straight XP. Trade one XP for one GM-determined dramatic effect. However, I don't really like the idea of using non-recoverable charges for this sort of thing.

 

I think you'd be better off using one of the other ways of doing 'Hero Point' type bonuses proposed on these boards. Take a look at the following threads:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36036&highlight=RDU+chit

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22714&highlight=RDU+chit

[Phil]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Personally' date=' I would try to keep this as abstract as possible. If you are using [b']non-recoverable[/b] charges, I would skip that and replace it with straight XP. Trade one XP for one GM-determined dramatic effect. However, I don't really like the idea of using non-recoverable charges for this sort of thing.

 

I think you'd be better off using one of the other ways of doing 'Hero Point' type bonuses proposed on these boards. Take a look at the following threads:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36036&highlight=RDU+chit

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22714&highlight=RDU+chit

Unfortunately, while again this is a really helpful suggestion, it doesnt actually get to the root of my problem. Which is that because some characters have them and some dont, the relative value of them is of utmost importance to me in determining at least a modicum of character generation balance.

 

Allowing humans to spend XPs like this will still require me to evaluate the relative cost of this as a special ability.

[MitchellS]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

You should take a look at the luck power and some of the options presented there. Pulp Hero's Heroic Action Points are based off of one of the options for luck. It works, even if you hate it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

OK, some suggestions:

 

If you want slots in a multipower, you need to decide how many active points it can all max out at. I'd suggest 40. OK that's a lot, but it enables the 'desolid super dodge', so bear with me. The pool cost is modified by the number of charges, slots are not charge limited. Each use takes one charge which can only be replaced by XP expenditure or GM fiat.

 

13 Multipower 'Hero points 40 active points 16 Charges (never recover)

 

3 Healing (simlpified) 4d6 self only: it was only a scratch

4 I must succeed! 4 overall levels

3 Through a hail of arrows unscathed! Desolid only to avoid damage -1/2 (4 END)

4 That that, varlet! +25 strength at 0 END

 

 

Total cost 27 points

 

OK. As you use charges the pool ost effectively drops, and to recharge it you have to spend a number of XP depending on how many charges you have used.

 

So....

 

Charges in pool.........cost

 

1............................5

2-3.........................9

4...........................10

5-8........................11

9-12.......................12

13-16.....................13

 

 

This means if you have used 4-7 of your original 16 charges, it costs 1 XP to top up the pool and so on.

 

You PROBALY want to have a lower starting number of charges, and, of course you can partially fill up the pool. If you start with a lower number of charges, the cost of the entire power drops to (pool cost)+14. Obviously if you add or take away slots then the power cost changes, and there is no real need to have all the slots work out at or around 40 active points - I just did it that way for illustrative purposes.

[Zed-F]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

See, the way I would do 'heroic tricks' is just to build them as a MP of superskills and forget the whole non-recoverable charges thing. You can make the MP of superskills to be whatever level of AP you want, though as Sean mentioned 40 AP is not a bad target in some ways.

 

Here's an MP of superskills I built for a character I posted recently:

12     Action Hero Tricks: Multipower, 12-point reserve - END=
1u     1)  Burst Of Strength: +12 STR (12 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) - END=2
1u     2)  Roll With The Shot: (Total: 12 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) +6 PD (6 Active Points); Must Be Aware Of Attack (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus +6 ED (6 Active Points); Must Be Aware Of Attack (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) - END=0
1u     3)  Not As Bad As It Looked: Healing Characteristics 1d6, any Characteristic one at a time (+1/4) (12 Active Points) [Notes: Improvise treatment for minor wounds/toxins.] - END=1
1u     4)  Run 'n Gun: Running 6" (12 Active Points); Only To Calculate Half-move (-1/2) [Notes: 7" half-move, rather than 7" full move.] - END=1
1u     5)  Hitching a Lift: Running 0" (7" total), x8 Noncombat (10 Active Points); OIF Ride of Opportunity (-1/2) - END=1
1u     6)  Expert Climber / Tightrope Walker: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); Cannot Resist Knockback (-1/4), Not On Ceilings or Slippery Surfaces (-1/4) - END=0
1u     7)  Vanishing Teleport: Teleportation 6" (12 Active Points); Only To Vanish When No-one Is Looking (-1/2), Only To Otherwise Reachable Places (-1/2) - END=1

[Phil]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Do you know, I hate Luck so much I'd completely forgotten that in FRED, Steve introduced a range of alternatives mechanisms... including roll agains. If only I'd looked at that in the first place, I could've saved some heartache.

 

Mind you, I still hate it and wont allow it in any other campaigns

 

Thanks for the suggestions, they've been very helpful.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Favors

[ghost-angel]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Do you know, I hate Luck so much I'd completely forgotten that in FRED, Steve introduced a range of alternatives mechanisms... including roll agains. If only I'd looked at that in the first place, I could've saved some heartache.

 

Mind you, I still hate it and wont allow it in any other campaigns

 

Thanks for the suggestions, they've been very helpful.

Sometimes a mechanic we hate still works for what we're trying to do, even if only for a single game.

[Phil]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

13 Multipower 'Hero points 40 active points 16 Charges (never recover)

 

3 Healing (simlpified) 4d6 self only: it was only a scratch

4 I must succeed! 4 overall levels

3 Through a hail of arrows unscathed! Desolid only to avoid damage -1/2 (4 END)

 

Just had a thought. This requires an Abort action to active. Could you be sneaky and link it to a +1 SPD? Although it makes it prohibitively expensive - better off just buying some armour or Missile Deflection.

 

Phil

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

Another variant you might consider would be Scott Bennie's Luck Pool system and Luck-based Talents, which he posted to the discussion forums here. Despite the name Scott's system goes well beyond the official Luck variants listed in the Fifth Edition rulebook.

[Lucius]

Costing out a 'Hero Point' multipower

 

I think you are trying to create a power when what you need is possibly a disadvantage.

 

Instead of trying to give some bonus to Humans to represent that they are not "Fated" as the Elves are, give the Elves the disadvantage "Bound by Fate."

 

Now, what that MEANS and therefore how much it costs, is up to you. You could also consider putting more restrictions on Humans than on Elves on how many disadvantage points they get....especially if the Elves have a lot of required disadvantages. That keeps the points equal, but lets the Elves be more, I think the word you used is "kick-***." On the other hand, when they meet the Balrog and the player says "I call upon Elbereth, select my enchanted arrow, and take a called shot at his heart, using all my penalty skill levels...." you can say "No, you don't. You call upon Elbereth and just stand there and tremble. You are not fated to kill this creature as easily as you killed the Great Goblin's Great Grandson, and you know it. That's why you got all those disad points for Bound by Fate."

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Insert inappropriate palindromedary tagline here