Package Deals - how much detail is too much?

[Black Rose]

I didn't want to hijack OberonGX's thread, so I decided to start one of my own.

 

I got a question for all you HERO gurus; when it comes to creating Templates (forgive me SJG for my theft), how much is too much? In modern settings it's different (at least I think so), but in fantasy settings you would be justified in having three templates; racial, occupational, and cultural. And in each of those, you could get even more detailed;give them facets that the basic concept doesn't have.

 

What I want to know is, how much do you put into your templates? I like mine to be pretty detailed, but sometimes this means that they get pretty point heavy; skills and perks cost, boys and girls.

 

I'll search through my stuff and try to find some of my templates to give y'all an example, but for now I just wanted to see what I could get started.

[Monolith]

For fantasy games, and really for all Heroic Level games, I think it is best to keep all Package Deals under 20 points (that's 20 real points, not points after Disadvantages), and under 15 points is better. If you think about it, a 150 point character really does not want to take a 20 point Race Package, a 20 point Culture Package, and a 20 point Class package. By the time you factor in Characteristics and things the character might want to take outside of a package you are leaving the character only about 10-15 free points.

 

Keep a Package Deal simple and you cannot go wrong, IMO.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Black Rose,

 

I agree with Mon but I have another comment. In my case I only let my packages get expensive if it is a race/occupation that I want to be really rare in the game world. For example, if half-dragons are really rare their package might be very high points. Something that is common, like a city guard, would be a very low amount of points.

[Derek Hiemforth]

To an extent, I think it depends on the feel you're going for. For example (and I realize this isn't applicable to FH), if you were running a Star Trek game where the PCs were Starfleet officers and Starfleet Academy grads, the Package Deals might be very large. Starfleet training encompasses a lot of Skills, and for new characters in such a game, it's entirely possible that such packages might constitute half their total points or more. This is an extreme example, though... most packages would be much smaller in scope.

[AlHazred]

It all depends on what is required. For occupational and cultural package deals, I always go with the absolute minimum ability that is essential for the occupation. This means few of them have "Choose three Intellect Skills from the following list" or anything like that. I do that partially to combat point inflation and partially to avoid dominating the point requirements for low-point NPCs; if they've only got 25 points to spend to make them unique, I want as many as possible for personal quirks and such. Look at it this way: how many specific "skills" does your job absolutely require? Chances are, if you need more than three or five, you've got a really involved career.

 

On the other hand, for racial packages, I go nuts. I want to reflect the race's abilities the best possible way; therefore, I never let myself be bogged down with point values -- it costs as much as it costs. This does mean that some races with special powers may require a huge package cost, but chances are they'll be rare anyway. I mean, if the GM wants to make energy beings a possible PC race, I know it'll cost me an arm and a leg, and expect him to take that into account when doling out the starting points.

[Markdoc]

I don't do cultural/social package deals - instead I dish out different everyman skills to different cultures.

 

To simplify my life, I also have social everyman skills: thus a noble wll have an assumed low level of competence in certain social skills, while a city-dweller will have different ones and a farmer a different set again.

 

I keep them pretty simple, since they *are* everyman skills.

 

Finally I assign each culture a list of social package deals. So: Halsings (relatively sophisticated "dark ages" type culture) get Hunter, farmer, warrior, tradesman, etc but not Noble (they have no noble class) and no barbarians. Their northern neighbours get barbarian, shaman and noble. That's it. I tdoesn't mean a Kharghaz barbarian can't learn to be scholar (if he goes somewhere where they have books) but his everyman skills will be a barbarian's until he has live din his new culture for many years - he can ride (if not well) and callous sophisticates will laugh when he tries to use a knife and fork.

 

That way, I can "assume" a basic familiarity with the things the character should know a little about and not have to worry about huge package deals that no-one wants to buy (in 4e, big package deals were good, since you got points back. In 5e, big package deals are bad, since you end up buying skills you never wanted). If they want to be good at something, they pay points for it.

 

It also means that I do not have to generate the hundreds of detailed package deals that would otherwise be needed. There is no "Priest" package deal for example: a Dymerian Guardian of the Necropolis has an entirely different skillset from a Dymerian Tender of the Flame, even though they are both priests, both worship the same religion and could even serve in the same city.

 

Thus I tend to generate small package deals for specific groups, containing only the skills that EVERYONE in the group would know.

 

Too-detailed package deals take away too much freedom for my taste.

 

cheers, Mark

[AnotherSkip]

Well my suggestion would be to list the skills necessary and then leave off the points/results. IE a barbarian could have 6 skills (survival, Riding, AK:BArbarian Lands, Tracking, PS Barbarian etc...) minimum proficiency would be an 8- proficiency but someone who wanted to be a good tracker would spend the three points to be good at the skill.

 

Of couse see the Bullseye-> Package deals thread for other Skippy Suggestions

[Toadmaster]

There are many good ideas and suggestions listed above but to add my $0.02.

 

In general I agree that you don't want the packages to get too expensive or there are few points left to make the character differant. On the other hand the justification many give for "classes" in D&D and like games are that "in the old days" most societies did restrict where and how you could get skills often only being available by belonging to specific guilds. Typically I don't like "classes" so I don't make Fantasy packages really expensive but if you like "classes" then it makes alot of sense to make your packages very detailed. There are reasons stereo types exist, one Dwarf fighter may be very much like the next, Hobbits may have the monopoly on thieves guilds etc. Also which the exception of racial packages generally no player has to take the package. Also keep in mind the point value of "normals", it doesn't make much sense to have a town guard package that no "normal" town guard could afford to buy. Remember the player characters generally have many more points to spend so if a package leaves them with little left over how would the non heroic people of that class hold the job, they can't all be heroes.