Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

[Kirby]

Looking through The Ultimate Brick, I've come across a scenario as a GM that leaves me worried that Disads might not be limiting coupled with skills that might not be used.

 

Ogre, on page 121 has +3 HtH (15 pts) and +3 w/Bricks Tricks MP (9 pts).

When using his multipower, does this give Ogre +6, or only on those in the MP that use his hands (pretty much all but the Shockwave [explosion affecting those on the ground], and The Big Wrap-Up [entangle using materials available] it seems).

 

Now, once that's been determined/debated/decided, what about his Berserk: When in combat. Is he able to use his Bricks Tricks with that? I would think not, since it would seem that his base punches would be his basic attack, but there are Distance Punch and Tear You Limb From Limb to consider.

 

Finally, if he goes Berserk nearly every time he's in combat (go 11-, recover 14-) should his Bricks Tricks MP have a limitation on it (it does cost him 84 points for all of it), or is this a good sign of a Disad being a disad? (Though, if he's Berserk so much, when does he have time to do those tricks?)

 

What are your opinions on these?

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

Oh interesting...

 

One for me the Brick Tricks levels cover everything you could do with that skill level including increasing HtH OCV. So Ogre would have a +6 OCV when using a Brick Trick (including a superpunch or great wrap up (as long as the entangle was no range)).

 

Berserk was always played by me as the most vicous most common attack is the one that is used by the character as long as that attack was relatively simple. Thus Berserks use weapons but not VPPs set to 1 pip autofire penetrating killing attacks. They also get to use their skill levels on OCV since the mad rage makes them want to hit. Conversely they often set up for haymakers and never do anything to increase their DCV.

 

As to making the MP less costly I"m going to think on that some more.

 

Hawksmoor

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

This is a good question.

 

I think that, as GM, I would be telling my player that as long as he was using a melee weapon then the HtH levels would count. So I would probably say that the shockwave would not count - he is sending out a force not physically connected to him (acting more like an EB) but the wrap up is just like using a weapon.

 

Berserk-wise then simple stuff gets allowed. Shockwave is a good one if there are lots of people - almost like a toddler throwing a tantrum. I wouldn't allow the wrap up when berserk - too much thought applied there.

 

And I wouldn't give a break on the multipower - very much the disad disadvantaging the character.

 

 

Doc

[Zed-F]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

Looking through The Ultimate Brick, I've come across a scenario as a GM that leaves me worried that Disads might not be limiting coupled with skills that might not be used.

 

Ogre, on page 121 has +3 HtH (15 pts) and +3 w/Bricks Tricks MP (9 pts).

When using his multipower, does this give Ogre +6, or only on those in the MP that use his hands (pretty much all but the Shockwave [explosion affecting those on the ground], and The Big Wrap-Up [entangle using materials available] it seems).

Anything that is a melee attack gets to use the HTH levels. You don't need to be using your hands, you can be using your feet, a weapon, whatever so long as the target is in your hex or the next one.

 

Now, once that's been determined/debated/decided, what about his Berserk: When in combat. Is he able to use his Bricks Tricks with that? I would think not, since it would seem that his base punches would be his basic attack, but there are Distance Punch and Tear You Limb From Limb to consider.

If he has a favourite attack, he'll use that. If he uses his brick tricks occasionally but not for every punch, then he probably won't bother. If he usually uses a brick trick, he'll pick whichever brick trick is the most straightforward. This probably means he won't be using Shockwave or the entangle, but if say he usually uses Distance Punch he would go for that. I don't have UB so I have no idea what he's most likely to use.

 

Finally, if he goes Berserk nearly every time he's in combat (go 11-, recover 14-) should his Bricks Tricks MP have a limitation on it (it does cost him 84 points for all of it), or is this a good sign of a Disad being a disad? (Though, if he's Berserk so much, when does he have time to do those tricks?)

Well, you could probably justify a only when not berserk limitation on it, but it probably wouldn't be more than -1/4. You can expect that at the very beginning of combat, before he throws his first punch, he won't be berserk yet -- at least I would make the roll at the end of the phase combat starts in (in my case, usually phase 12.) Then he won't need to make another roll until the end of the next turn, unless something else happens to piss him off. So, he could easily make that first roll and be non-berserk for that turn of combat a good chunk of the time.

[Kirby]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions. I think I'm going with the MP and HtH skills can combine, and that some of the MP slots can be used while berserk. I won't put any limits on the MP, though if I make a character with these, I might include the 'requires two hands' for them. This just means the players had an easier time vs Ogre than they should have; but since this is the first adventure, that's okay.

[Agent X]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

Does berserk always mean "simple"?

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

Does berserk always mean "simple"?

 

IMO yes.

 

Berserk implies lack of rational thought and reasoning. If you can't tell your friends from foes or recognize Aunty Geriatic from Lady Shiva then you can't use your most complex abilities.

 

Smash and Blast are your tactics.

 

Hawksmoor

[Kirby]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

Does berserk always mean "simple"?

According to FREd, pg. 217:

"Berserk characters use their most familiar or often used offensive Power at full strength while Berserk...."

For Ogre, I'd think that would allow him to use Distance Punch and Tear You Limb From Limb, possibly to include Augmented Haymaker, though for the scene I've used Ogre in, the latter never came into play.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

IMO yes.

 

Berserk implies lack of rational thought and reasoning. If you can't tell your friends from foes or recognize Aunty Geriatic from Lady Shiva then you can't use your most complex abilities.

 

Smash and Blast are your tactics.

 

Hawksmoor

 

 

You may not be able to tell friend and foe apart, but that doesn't mean that you can not fight effectively, albeit witht he emphasis entirely on the 'offensive'. I don't consider this to mean 'have to use biggest attack' (so I disagree that berserks often set up haymakers - takes too long, not a good way to kill the opponent unless they are not going anywhere) BUT they will use the best method available to maim or kill whoever or whatever they are fighting. A berserk blaster, for instance, could cycle through his MP until he found one that worked best. I would even let someone change their VPP, but NOT if it required a skill roll. Insticnt is one thing, but the conscious has been subsumed by the red mists...

 

The point of the disadvantage, to me, is not that it makes you bad at fighting, or even that you don't use tactics on a personal level, but that you can not stop, and you won't actively work with others - everyone is an enemy. In a superpowered world with squishy humans watching that is a real problem, which is why I rarely let PCs take this lim: Follow it through and they woud be criminals in no time.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

....in suppost of my argument the most powerful attacks most can do is a pushed haymaker. If you had to do this, then berserks would be stupidly simple to combat, and they are not: they are horribly dangerous and scary.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

I second everything Sean just said, and thats pretty much how I've played Berserk for a long while now.

 

Heck, I used to have one mutant VPP using Aura controller chaacter who went berserk on enraged in a couple of circumstances, and one of the first actions was usually going incandescent as he shifted over to "Don't give a F**K about defence, END conservation or anything else. Now is time to trot out all the biggest common attacks and start destroying everything in sight". Think Wolverines temper with Havoks power level. Tended to leave lots of fragged Minuteman robots, gratuitous property damage, and an unconcious character.

[Susano]

Re: Ogre, Hand-to-Hand, Bricks Tricks & Rage

 

I second everything Sean just said, and thats pretty much how I've played Berserk for a long while now.

 

Heck, I used to have one mutant VPP using Aura controller chaacter who went berserk on enraged in a couple of circumstances, and one of the first actions was usually going incandescent as he shifted over to "Don't give a F**K about defence, END conservation or anything else. Now is time to trot out all the biggest common attacks and start destroying everything in sight". Think Wolverines temper with Havoks power level. Tended to leave lots of fragged Minuteman robots, gratuitous property damage, and an unconcious character.

 

This sounds about right to me. Berserk/Enraged characters should be concerned with putting the smack down on foes. DCV, defense, END, he cares not for these things. All he wants to do is hit and hit hard. Levels go into OCV, you forget about Setting, Bracing, Delaying, and so on. If you have a +2 OCV Fast Strike, you use that over and over until your foe is Stunned/reeling, and then you switch to your -2 OCV +4d6 Damage Offensive Strike. If you're a brick, you punch, punch, punch, and then (if the foe is staggering) Grab and Crush/Rend, or maybe Haymaker.

 

The big difference between Enraged and Berserk is that the Enraged character can tell friend from foe....

 

Oh, and if you play Enraged as stated, it does become a Disad (not a case of "free hits on the bad guys"), because there's a good chance you'll run yourself dry or skip on Dodging and get slammed, or....