New Guy likes SPD Chart

[Captain Obvious]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Well, this is nice. I, too, like the Speed Chart (another Car Wars veteran), but there are so many threads complaining about it that I was pretty sure that 6th Ed would drop it. At least there's still hope that it won't disappear on us.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Count me in as one of those who feels the Speed system is one of Hero's strengths, not a weakness.

[rjcurrie]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

I've been a fan of the SPD chart for 23 yeas.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Actually, having Speed one go on 7 makes sense After everyone else’s first action, but before the slow people’s second.

 

The real question is ‘Why is it so damn hard to find the Speed Chart?†It’s not even listed under ‘Speed’ for Zarquon’s sake, nor is it at the beginning of the Combat section, where you’d expect to find it.

 

Gummibear: If at all possible, I try to ‘overlap’ speeds for speed changing characters. Going from 2 or 3 to 6 is easy, because all the speed 2 and 3 phases are covered by 6. Pity 4 and 6 don’t match up, they’re usually the ones you want to use.

 

You can do the same trick with 4 to 8 but that’s usually going higher than you want to go.

 

In any case, I love the speed chart. It’s so much better than the ‘extra attacks for good warriors’ systems that most other games use for the same thing it’s hard to even compare the two without gibbering. “Multi-power attacks†and Rapid Fire mess this up considerably, thus, I hate them with the fire of a thousand suns.

 

I also think it’s the ideal solution to the ‘two weapon style’ problems that come up in . . . well, every game that lets you use two weapons at all. Including the Hero ones.

 

Though I do think most of the ‘limited speed’ characters give it too much of a limitation. “Only for fighting†isn’t worth anything at all. What else is it used for? Only to make attacks with my mental powers’ might qualify as 1/2 for some characters, like Cybermind, but not for Menton, for whom this means ‘can do everything but take a recovery’. A phys lim is probably a better way of handing that type of thing, though.

 

One of the reasons I don’t really like ‘NCM hero’ is that the speed chart doesn’t work as well on the low end. Being Speed 4 in a Speed 5 average game with a couple of Speed 6 or 7 characters isn’t so bad. Being a Speed 2 character in a Speed 3 average game with a couple of Speed 4 characters . . . kind of sucks.

 

As learned by Germ, the Speed 2 Dwarf.

 

Speed gets much better the lower on the chart the average is . . . kicking up to 4 in a 3 average game is worth a lot more than 10 points.

 

I suspect a good number of the ‘Drop the Speed Chart’ crowd mostly play lower point heroic games, where it’s true glory is lost.

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Germ’s ‘identifying quote’? “I’m . . . feeling . . . sluggish . . .†In a deep, slowed down tape recorder voice.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Gummibear: If at all possible' date=' I try to ‘overlap’ speeds for speed changing characters. Going from 2 or 3 to 6 is easy, because all the speed 2 and 3 phases are covered by 6. Pity 4 and 6 don’t match up, they’re usually the ones you want to use.[/quote']

 

We just use the more ligical old rule that, when your SPD changes, your next phase falls on the later of the next phase for your new SPD and the next phase for your old SPD, after which you get phases in accordance with your new SPD.

 

Though I do think most of the ‘limited speed’ characters give it too much of a limitation. “Only for fighting†isn’t worth anything at all. What else is it used for? Only to make attacks with my mental powers’ might qualify as 1/2 for some characters' date=' like Cybermind, but not for Menton, for whom this means ‘can do everything but take a recovery’. A phys lim is probably a better way of handing that type of thing, though. [/quote']

 

What if I bought my bonus SPD "only gets a half phase"? Since Menton can only attack, he doesn't get to make a half move, does he? He also can't get off the ground if he's been knocked back, or take a PER roll to see if that doqwned opponent is really KO'd, or just playing possum. He also can't take 0 phase actions not related to attacking with his mental powers (like, say, activating a force field or triggering a device which requires a 0 phase action to trigger).

[Ura-Maru]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

I think that’s still the way it works, as far as I know. The ‘overlapping phases’ is just a cute trick if you can pull it off, that’s all. (Because all the Speed 3 phases are also Speed 6 phases)

 

Since Menton can only attack, he doesn't get to make a half move, does he?

Except Menton can use telekinesis to do any ‘physical action’ he wants to, or to fly. (and his TK based powers are specifically mentioned as allowed by the power) And as he has targeting ‘detect minds’ mental-group power, he dosen’t even need to use his physical senses.

 

It’s a nice bit of color, and probably worth a 5 pt phys lim. Not a -1/2 advantage on a 40 pt. power, though.

 

Half-actions only would probably be worth -1/2 on Speed.

 

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Does perception really work that way? Am I supposed to wait until my next phase to notice something that happened on a phase I don’t go on?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Im a huge fan of the SPD chart. Its only flaw in my opinion is it doesnt handle segemented movement well, but aside from that blatant gamism it works really well.

[EverKnight]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Actually' date=' having Speed one go on 7 makes sense After everyone else’s first action, but before the slow people’s second.[/quote']

 

It's odd because if you followed the method all the other speeds have their phases calculated then SPD 1 would occur on segment 12.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Except Menton can use telekinesis to do any ‘physical action’ he wants to' date=' or to fly. (and his TK based powers are specifically mentioned as allowed by the power) And as he has targeting ‘detect minds’ mental-group power, he dosen’t even need to use his physical senses. [/quote']

 

What is the exact phrasing of the limitation? I thought it was "Only to make attacks with my mental powers". Flying (telekinetically or otherwise), righting oneself from knockback, picking up my car keys (telekinetically or not) or activating/deactivating a defense power is not "attacking", at least in my opinion. It also won't help him in a chase - he gets to move only in his unlimited phases.

 

Come to think of it, I wonder how "abort" would work. I think I would rule he must abort his next non-limited phase (IMO "attacking with a mental power" will never be a defensive action), and any limited phases in between.

 

Does perception really work that way? Am I supposed to wait until my next phase to notice something that happened on a phase I don’t go on?

 

My example is one I believe ios specifically addressed in the rules (unless 5e dropped it). You generally make PER rolls as things happen, so if someone is creeping up behind you, you get your PER roll. However, to try to determine whether an opponent is really down or just playing possum is a half phase action requiring a PER roll. You can't just take a half phase action at your discretion, between phases. And it's not a mental attack to make such an examination.

[Gummibear]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

What is the exact phrasing of the limitation? I thought it was "Only to make attacks with my mental powers". Flying (telekinetically or otherwise)' date=' righting oneself from knockback, picking up my car keys (telekinetically or not) or activating/deactivating a defense power is not "attacking", at least in my opinion. It also won't help him in a chase - he gets to move only in his unlimited phases.[/quote']

 

I actually had a player that was a mentalist with the -1 limitation to her speed of only for mental abilities. At first I wasn't too sure if this would work out since she was primarily a mentalist. I stopped worrying after the chase you mentioned ensued. She was stuck behind a crate and couldn't move yet as her physical action hadn't come up and her mental one had just been used. She had to sit there while the bad guys stared at her, then gave her a pounding.

 

Arguably this is less than half limiting, and thus less than a -1 limitation, however in play I have seen this be at the -1 level. So even though its slightly cheesy(mental speed for half cost) I'm keeping it. Any other experiences with this from the group?

[Ura-Maru]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Menton's Disad: “Only to use Mental/Telekinetic Powers.†As opposed to all his other powers, I guess. So he can’t take recoveries, or Simulate Death.

 

For Cybermind, the other example, this is actually somewhat limiting. Because his powers are so focused, it IS probably worth the 1/2 he gets for it. For Menton, I just don’t see it coming up at all, unless the GM forces it. And even then, it’s barely limiting at all. A 5 pt ‘color’ Phys Lim sounds right to me.

 

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“So fast . . . at that size, it’s not possible . . .â€

[Jhamin]

Re: New Guy likes SPD Chart

 

Menton's Disad: “Only to use Mental/Telekinetic Powers.” As opposed to all his other powers, I guess. So he can’t take recoveries, or Simulate Death.

 

For Cybermind, the other example, this is actually somewhat limiting. Because his powers are so focused, it IS probably worth the 1/2 he gets for it. For Menton, I just don’t see it coming up at all, unless the GM forces it. And even then, it’s barely limiting at all. A 5 pt ‘color’ Phys Lim sounds right to me.

 

I tend to agree with this assesment. Given how much of Menton's power works with this speed, and how little doesn't, I'd have given it a -1/4. Still, given that it amounts to 5 points in 1400pt character I'm not too worried.

 

 

For extra fun, lets look at Menton's opposite.

 

Grond's extra speed "only to punch" got a -1. (in The Ultimate Brick version at least)

 

In my mind, -1 is about right. Even as a brick there are alot of things other than punch Grond might want to be doing. (superleaping, grabbing, chucking tanks, etc). Having extra speed to lay into people with all that Str is not a bad thing, but it isn't nearly as good as "real" speed.