Dogfight rules -- do they work?

[ArgusSK]

I was browsing through the Dogfight section (5ER p. 474) and planning for an ambush on my PCs' super-jet on their next trip. It seems from the rules, though, that it would be REALLY hard to hit your opponent! Between the massive range difference potential and always having at least a -2 to your OCV (and -4 more commonly), not to mention vehicles having to use their own OCV instead of the gunner's, it looks like it would just be a successive series of misses.

 

Has anyone tried these rules out, and do they actually work? Any suggestions for an alternative?

[John Desmarais]

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work?

 

I was browsing through the Dogfight section (5ER p. 474) and planning for an ambush on my PCs' super-jet on their next trip. It seems from the rules, though, that it would be REALLY hard to hit your opponent! Between the massive range difference potential and always having at least a -2 to your OCV (and -4 more commonly), not to mention vehicles having to use their own OCV instead of the gunner's, it looks like it would just be a successive series of misses.

 

Has anyone tried these rules out, and do they actually work? Any suggestions for an alternative?

Do they work? Yes, for what they were intended for - which is to handle occasional vehicle combat in a game that centers around characters, not vehicles. It's a bit more abstract that normal Hero character combat.

 

I think The Ultimate Vehicle has more detailed vehicle combat rules (but I don't have that book with me so I can't check).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work?

 

Not only yes do they work, but playing out a dogfight is fun and, more importantly, feels like playing a dogfight like you'd see in a WWII movie.

[hancock.tom]

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work?

 

I thought they were pretty good when we had a dogfight in the pulp hero one shot a friend of mine ran when PH came out.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work?

 

They work very well if the imaginations of those involved are up to the task, and the GM's storytelling abilities are well developed.

 

The game mechanics do a good job of mimicking how Dogfight combat should work, in game terms. However, to get the true feel of a dogfight (as much as you can get sitting around a dining room table anyway) the GM has to describe the events of the dogfight as cinematically as possible, taking the results of the skill rolls into consideration for his descriptions. Thats the main issue with the dogfighting rules, although there are others who may try and tell you something different.

[ArgusSK]

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work?

 

You're absolutely right that description and storytelling should take precedence over rules. I think it sounds like a blast to try out a WWII biplane dogfight!

 

My main concern has been wondering whether anyone can actually hit their opponent using this system. With all the penalties to OCV, it seems that it would be very difficult, and dogfight battles might end up going on a very long time. Opinions on that?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work?

 

It's not quite as difficult as it seems. A few factors to keep in mind:

 

Most air vehicles have fairly substantial DCV penalties due to size (-2 to -4 in most cases);

 

While you do use the base OCV of the vehicle for weapons that it mounts rather than your own, you can still use any of your Combat Skill Levels applicable to the craft's weapons;

 

A very good Combat Piloting Skill roll will put you in an advantageous position relative to your target, so in general the better pilot you are, the better you'll do in a dogfight (which is fairly close to real life);

 

Aircraft are relatively fragile compared to other types of vehicles (low DEF), so almost any hit is probably going to be fairly damaging (The Ultimate Vehicle features optional aircraft Hit Locations which may make the detrimental effects of a hit even more immediate and urgent);

 

It's quite acceptable to build modern aircraft weapons with innate CSLs to represent computer targetting and other advanced systems.