Power Help: Big Stone Mech

[Karma]

I have a character who has as one of his powers the ability to use the minerals in the area around him to create a humanoid magically-powered vehicle (a big stone 'mech' for want of a better term) around him.

 

Would you (were you GM) allow someone to summon a vehicle around themselves?

 

Also the 'Big Stone Mech' is able to grow and heal itself by using materiaol around it. Do you think Growth and Healing BODY with Side effect: Xd6 RKA to minerally based stuff in surrounding area, and 'must be in contact with minerals' would cover it?

[Basil]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

I have a character who has as one of his powers the ability to use the minerals in the area around him to create a humanoid magically-powered vehicle (a big stone 'mech' for want of a better term) around him.

 

Would you (were you GM) allow someone to summon a vehicle around themselves?

Since it is unliving, no. AIUI, only living things can be Summoned. I'd make the character buy it as Transform.

 

Also the 'Big Stone Mech' is able to grow and heal itself by using materiaol around it. Do you think Growth and Healing BODY with Side effect: Xd6 RKA to minerally based stuff in surrounding area' date=' and 'must be in contact with minerals' would cover it?[/quote']Sounds OK to me. Though since this would make it No Range, I think a Side Effect of HKA would be better.

[Chuckg]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

With the GM’s permission, a character can use Summon to “create” inanimate objects defined with Character Points (such as Vehicles and Bases). The cost depends on the total cost of the object, not its total cost divided by 5 (if that’s the standard method used to buy it). The character must apply the Amicable Advantage (see below) at the Slavishly Loyal (+1) level, since he has full control over the object. Additionally, if he Summons the same specific Vehicle every time (or the like), he must pay for the Specific Being (+1) Advantage (see below), unless the GM rules otherwise.

 

-- page 223, 5e Revised

[OddHat]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Actually, Summoning Automatons is legal, as is Summoning Vehicles as per the Ultimate Vehicle. So, if the GM chose to permit it, the character could summon a Mech.

 

However, this is a dirt cheap way to get a huge boost in power. I'd be very cautious about permitting it.

 

A method you might consider is linked Growth and DI, OIHID, with the Hero ID being the Mech. Add on as many powers as you like, linked. Here's a sample character with that build for a high power 350 point campaign:

 

http://bobtokyo.robertdorf.com/Kinnakaijin.htm

[Gary]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Oddhat, while your build is technically legal, it's not going to be particularly effective. Steve has made a ruling that Str from growth and density don't stack together when inside frameworks.

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9963&highlight=growth+density

[OddHat]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Oddhat, while your build is technically legal, it's not going to be particularly effective. Steve has made a ruling that Str from growth and density don't stack together when inside frameworks.

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9963&highlight=growth+density

 

Thanks. If it's not in the rule book, I rarely see it. Easy enough to fix.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

The New, Improved Golden Giant:

 

KINNAKAIJIN (GOLDEN GIANT)

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

10/100 STR 0 11- / 29- Lift 100.0kg/26.2ktons; 2d6/20d6 [1/9]

20 DEX 12 13- OCV: 7/DCV: 7

18 CON 6 13-

10/19 BODY 0 11- / 13-

10 INT 0 11- PER Roll 11-

10 EGO 0 11- ECV: 3

35 PRE 0 16- PRE Attack: 7d6

10 COM 0 11-

 

2/32 PD 0 Total: 2/32 PD (0/21 rPD)

4/34 ED 0 Total: 4/34 ED (0/21 rED)

4 SPD 10 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

6 REC 0

36 END 0

25/34 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 28

 

Movement: Running: 6"/12"

Flight: 20"/40"

Leaping: 2"/4"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

Cost Powers END

22 Ectoplasmic Projection: Elemental Control, 56-point powers, (28 Active Points); all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

Notes: Ichiro Honma creates his Giant Robot form by creating an ectoplasmic shell and then expanding this shell to "grow". His physical body remains floating inside the shell, though he is still able to percieve objects through the shell's extended nervous system. If Ichiro is rendered unconscious, the shell will instantly vanish. Illness, drugs or drunkeness may prevent the activation of Ichiro's powers.

22 1) Giant Robot Body: Growth (+45 STR, +9 BODY, +9 STUN, -9" KB, 15,360 kg, -6 DCV, +6 PER Rolls to perceive character, 9.8 m tall, 4.9 m wide), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (56 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 4

28 2) Unbreakable Space Metal Skin: Force Field (21 PD/21 ED), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Hardened (+1/4) (63 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 5

26 3) Powerful Space Rocket Pack: Flight 20", Position Shift, Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (67 Active Points); Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; -1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 7

14 4) Look! Captain Robot Is OK!: Healing 3 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (70 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

37 Amazing Space Metal Shell: Density Increase (15,400 kg mass, +45 STR, +9 PD/ED, -9" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (56 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; -1/2) 4

14 With Robot Brain Movement Is Precise: +6 DEX (18 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

Various Giant Robot Powers, all slots Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

Notes: The "Giant Robot" Shell created by Ichiro Honma grants him a number of abilities that are only available once he has obtained his full size. These abilities are also OIHID as a -0 Limit.

40 1) Secret Space Metal May Not Be Burned By Fire!: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

40 2) Incredible Space Metal Can Survive Traffic Accidents!: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

4 3) Super Space Eyes Are Good!: Sight Group Flash Defense (5 points), Hardened (+1/4) (6 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

26 4) Even In Space Am Here To Save Us!: Life Support (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (39 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

7 5) In robot Form Energetic Are Belong To Us!: +5 CON (10 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

17 6) The Big Am!: +25 PRE (25 Active Points); Linked (Giant Robot Body; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2)

Aikijitsu

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

4 Fast Strike +2 +0 4d6 / 22d6 Strike

5 Grappling Block +1 +1 Grab One Limb, Block

3 Grappling Throw +0 +2 4d6 / 22d6 Strike; Target Falls; Must Follow Grab

 

Perks

1 Custom Perk: Young Japanese Boy

Notes: Young Japanese Children are allowed access to many high-security areas, and are able to break in on conversations between top scientists and government officials. Their giant monster or giant robot friends can kill thousands, but Japanese children are never seriously punished for being involved with such destructive creatures.

 

Skills

6 Skilled In Akijitsu: +2 with Martial Maneuvers

0 Language: Japanese (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)

2 Language: English (basic conversation; literate)

2 KS: Giant Monsters 11-

1 PS: Grade School Student 8-

1 AK: Japan 8-

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 322

Total Cost: 350

 

200+ Disadvantages

15 Distinctive Features: Giant Flying Robot (Easily Concealed; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

5 Distinctive Features: Tests as Metahuman (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable Only By Technology Or Major Effort)

15 Social Limitation: Secret ID: Ichiro Honma, Grade School Student (Frequently, Major)

25 Hunted: SPYDER 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Capture)

5 Hunted: Calvin Pinkerton, exchange student with Giant Robot powers 8- (As Pow, Mildly Punish)

10 Hunted: Kawaguchi Yoshiko, friend of Giant Monsters 8- (Mo Pow, Mildly Punish)

15 Dependent NPC: Mom, Dad, Little Sister 8- (Normal; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID; Group DNPC: x2 DNPCs)

15 Psychological Limitation: Must Protect Earth from Giant Monsters (Common, Strong)

10 Psychological Limitation: Dangerously Curious (Common, Moderate)

15 Psychological Limitation: Naive and Gullible, Believes Anything (Very Common, Moderate)

10 Psychological Limitation: Annoying (Common, Moderate)

10 Vulnerability: 2 x Effect Friendly Presence Attacks and Pre attacks from Authority Figures (Uncommon)

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 350

 

Background/History: In his own words:

 

The space police protect us from Giant Monsters and Earthquakes and Traffic Accidents and Giant Space Police Man Mighty Tiger came to Earth and he could not survive because we are not pure in our spirits and so he came to live in my dreams and now when Giant Monsters or Earthquakes or Traffic Accidents are after people he is here to protect us!

 

Ichiro is a mediocre student but an Aikido prodigy. He lives with his mother, father, little sister, and a pet turtle named Tibby.

 

Ichiro is hunted by a number of other children with Kaiju related powers, as well as the evil organization Spyder.

 

Personality/Motivation: Ichiro is a typical ten year old Japanese school boy, who just happens to be able to turn into a 10 meter tall flying robot. In daily life he goes to school, reads comic books, takes care of his little sister, and fights monsters. He is naïve, trusting, innocent, cheerful, and really annoying.

 

Quote: Big monster! Do not be naughty!

 

Powers/Tactics: Ichiro has the ability to release and control a cloud of virtual particles, which he then forms into a robotic shell. Against human sized foes he will usually rely on the form of a silver robot the size of a ten year old boy, using his Density Increase, Force Field, and Flight. Against giant monsters, he will grow to his full size, taking the form of a 10 meter tall robot and becoming very nearly invulnerable to harm from any form of conventional weapon. He is not immune to the attacks of most Kaiju, but does have a slight advantage in terms of speed. He will normally close with the foe, hold and action, and then repeatedly use grappling blocks followed by grappling throws. If stunned or knocked unconscious he will return to his human form. He owes his survival to the lack of follow through displayed by most Giant Monsters.

 

As a little Japanese child, Ichiro is able to escape serious punishment for any action performed in Japan, no matter how outrageous. He is also able to wander around high security areas with only minimal consequences if caught.

 

Campaign Use: Weird hero, NPC, annoying ally, tool of evil.

 

Appearance: A large-for-his-age Japanese boy in a school uniform. Also takes the form of a small silver robot or a giant golden robot.

[Kelcyron]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Oddhat, while your build is technically legal, it's not going to be particularly effective. Steve has made a ruling that Str from growth and density don't stack together when inside frameworks.

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9963&highlight=growth+density

Forgive me for sounding snarky, but how far does this ruling go? Do the PD and ED from the Growth not add to the force field because they're "modifying" another power in the EC? Is it sufficiently different because "Force Field" is a different named power? I suspect not, as it was ruled that Growth strength doesn't add to HA/HKA in the same framework. Would it matter if it was bought as pure PD/ED (with GM permission since it doesn't cost end)? If I bought DI and Growth in the same EC, with one of them having "Does not add to STR", would the PD and ED from each stack?

 

Kelcyron

[Karma]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Sounds OK to me. Though since this would make it No Range, I think a Side Effect of HKA would be better.

 

HKA adds Str based damage which doesn't make sense in this context. This is the difference between a 'no range' RKA and a HKA (Normally RKA and HKA both cost 15 pts, because on has range and the other has 'plus STR related damage')

[Karma]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Actually, Summoning Automatons is legal, as is Summoning Vehicles as per the Ultimate Vehicle. So, if the GM chose to permit it, the character could summon a Mech.

 

However, this is a dirt cheap way to get a huge boost in power. I'd be very cautious about permitting it.

It's not dirt cheap given, as someone above pointed out, that you have to use the full point cost of the vehicle (not 1/5) do determine how much it costs (plus all the amicable mods etc.).

 

A method you might consider is linked Growth and DI, OIHID, with the Hero ID being the Mech.

 

The reason I decided to build it as a 'mech' and not as a OIHID or Multiform etc. is that the character will take no damage if his 'mech' is damaged unless they target him as the 'pilot' and neither take any STUN when the mech is damaged (as with any vehicle) since the 'mech' is simply a pile of stone and metal, not a living being and the character has no more psychic link with it than a telekinetc has with the stuff he moves around (the 'mech' is simply the characters primary use of his 'terrakinesis').

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

It's not dirt cheap given, as someone above pointed out, that you have to use the full point cost of the vehicle (not 1/5) do determine how much it costs (plus all the amicable mods etc.).

 

A method you might consider is linked Growth and DI, OIHID, with the Hero ID being the Mech.

 

The reason I decided to build it as a 'mech' and not as a OIHID or Multiform etc. is that the character will take no damage if his 'mech' is damaged unless they target him as the 'pilot' and neither take any STUN when the mech is damaged (as with any vehicle) since the 'mech' is simply a pile of stone and metal, not a living being and the character has no more psychic link with it than a telekinetc has with the stuff he moves around (the 'mech' is simply the characters primary use of his 'terrakinesis').

 

Then you _could_ just do it with Force Walls and Telekinesis.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

It's not dirt cheap given, as someone above pointed out, that you have to use the full point cost of the vehicle (not 1/5) do determine how much it costs (plus all the amicable mods etc.).

 

Summon, Vehicles, Followers, Multiform and Duplication all give huge chunks of extra points to the player. They are all dirt cheap for what you get. The loss of the 1/5 deal when you Summon a vehicle can be offset with a power framework, a few limits, and a GM willing to allow high active point powers.

 

Just something to consider as you measure the character against the campaign.

[Basil]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

-- page 223' date=' 5e Revised[/quote']

Thanks for the info from Re-Fred. I don't have it, so I didn't know.

 

BTW, I tried to rep you, but it may not have worked. OTOH, I keep getting "You cannot rep the same post twice," soit probably worked.

[Basil]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

HKA adds Str based damage which doesn't make sense in this context. This is the difference between a 'no range' RKA and a HKA (Normally RKA and HKA both cost 15 pts' date=' because on has range and the other has 'plus STR related damage')[/quote']

I suspect you're right, but this brings up a question: since a Side Effect "runs itself" (i.e., the character doesn't make any voluntary actions), can it really be said that the character is adding his STR? That is, does a Side Effect have any STR to add to an HKA?

[Karma]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

I suspect you're right' date=' but this brings up a question: since a Side Effect "runs itself" (i.e., the character doesn't make any voluntary actions), can it really be said that the character is adding his STR? That is, does a Side Effect have any STR to add to an HKA?[/quote']

All this is kind of beside the point since the side effect will do a certain amount of danage to the surounding area whether it's a HKA or a no range RKA.

 

However another question it berings up is what is the difference between a RKA and a HKA damage shield and is there one (does a HKA damage shield add the charaters STR or not and if so why?)

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Oddhat, while your build is technically legal, it's not going to be particularly effective. Steve has made a ruling that Str from growth and density don't stack together when inside frameworks.

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9963&highlight=growth+density

 

And this is one of the many reasons that sometimes Steve is W-R-O-N-G. That ruling makes absolutely no sense. STR from DI and Growth should stack period Framework or no.

 

Hawksmoor

[Cancer]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

Summon' date=' Vehicles, Followers, Multiform and Duplication all give huge chunks of extra points to the player. They are all dirt cheap for what you get. The loss of the 1/5 deal when you Summon a vehicle can be offset with a power framework, a few limits, and a GM willing to allow high active point powers.[/quote']

 

And if it's necessary to counter those dirt cheap powers, just hit 'em with Dispel, which then becomes dirt cheap for its magnitude of effect, but reels in the big cheap boost the players are enjoying.

 

(Said the guy with the character whose principal power is 4-aspect Multiform )

[Gary]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

And this is one of the many reasons that sometimes Steve is W-R-O-N-G. That ruling makes absolutely no sense. STR from DI and Growth should stack period Framework or no.

 

Hawksmoor

 

 

It's a game balance issue. Stick Growth, Density, and HKA or HA in the same EC and you'd get an awful attack for dirt cheap.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

It's a game balance issue. Stick Growth' date=' Density, and HKA or HA in the same EC and you'd get an awful attack for dirt cheap.[/quote']

 

So?

 

That is where the rule that says "Use Common Sense!" kicks in.

 

Seriously, point issues aside there is no reason, at all, for the STR (or Attack Powers) to NOT stack regardless of how they were built.

 

Steve is wrong, it might make point buy sense but that has nothing to do with consistency and integration of the game system.

 

Hawksmoor

[Gary]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

So?

 

That is where the rule that says "Use Common Sense!" kicks in.

 

Seriously, point issues aside there is no reason, at all, for the STR (or Attack Powers) to stack regardless of how they were built.

 

Steve is wrong, it might make point buy sense but that has nothing to do with consistency and integration of the game system.

 

Hawksmoor

 

 

I feel that game balance is a necessity to maintain the integity of the game system. YMMV.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Power Help: Big Stone Mech

 

I feel that game balance is a necessity to maintain the integity of the game system. YMMV.

 

And I say "Sauce for the Goose!" as long as everyone is treated equally such nonsense rulings are unnecessary.

 

Hawksmoor