WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

[MPT]

This has come up in a game I am running and would be interested in how other GMs handle this.

 

I know that WF: Vehicle Weapons for a particular vehicle means that you can use all the weapons on that vehicle e.g. a tank's gun, an airplanes bombs.

 

My question is regarding 'normal' weapons which are attached to a vehicle e.g. a machine gun that is attached to a Jeep.

 

Would you allow a character with WF: Machine Gun to use the gun without penalty or would you require the character to buy WF: Jeep weapons in order to use it. Also, in reverse, if a character buys WF: Jeep weapons could they argue that they could use a Machine Gun if it is not attached.

 

I have looked at the FAQ, FIVER and Ultimate Vehicle and can not find the answer so open it up for discussion.

[ghost-angel]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

I would say, in the case of mounted standard machineguns such as the one on a jeep could be operated by anyone with WF: Machineguns or Small Arms.

 

Vehicle Weapons is intended more for larger weapons - tanks cannons, Ships weapons, etc... not your standard small arms attached to a vehicle.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

I would agree with GA (as I often do) and I would also submit you may want to take a closer look at the mechanics you're working towards. Do you want every pilot capable of using anything on any plane, or would you rather have them train on specific ordinance?

 

Me, for my part, I'd have WF: Airborn Missile Systems, WF: Airborn Bombardier, WF: Airborn Ballistics (etc. and so forth). It may complicate things, but a lot more goes into getting a lock on with a missile than just a basic skill.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

How hard can it be? Just point in the general direction til a solid beep then fire away! BOOOOMMMM! Won't know what hit 'em.

[ghost-angel]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

Not all Vehicle Weapons operate like that. Especially not in historical settings, such as WW2 Naval Battles.

[Vanguard00]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

I would allow anyone with WF: Machine Guns to operate a machine gun on a vehicle while the vehicle was stationary. Even normal movement will induce a penalty, however, while I would be much more lenient in regards to penalties with a character who was trained on such.

[MPT]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

Vehicle Weapons is intended more for larger weapons - tanks cannons, Ships weapons, etc... not your standard small arms attached to a vehicle.

 

Thinking about the difference between 'larger weapons' and 'small arms' attached to a vehicle, I suppose the difference is in the tripod (or equivalent) that keeps the weapon in a fixed location and so aiming the attached and the non-attached version wouuld be different. The problem with this theory is that this makes adding a tripod to any weapon a different WF.

 

I would allow anyone with WF: Machine Guns to operate a machine gun on a vehicle while the vehicle was stationary.

 

Good point. Shooting at something when stationary is going to be different from shooting from a mooving vehicle. Again though, this makes anyone shooting from a moving vehicle have a different WF.

 

I think that taking the two differences of tripod and movement combined, however, does make it different enough to be worth its own WF. Thanks for clarrifying things.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

I've generally handled it the way g-a and others have described: if you have familiarity with a weapon, then you can fire it from the hip, bipod, tripod or vehicle mount. Only excpetion would be if a vehicle mounted weapon is fired through a radically different mechanism than the dismounted model -- such as coaxial machine guns that are fired through a tank's main gun targeting system. In practice, I tend to be fairly lenient with WF groups.

 

That said, having actually tried to fire a .50 cal accurately from the top of a moving APC, I could definitely argue a case for requiring a seperate WF for shooting from moving vehicles. Or alternately, allowing characters to buy CSLs that can only be used to offset the penalties of shooting from a moving vehicle? I think I like the second idea better.

 

 

bigdamnhero

“The problem with life is that for the most part, you don't get to control how your XP are spent.†– Steve Long

[ghost-angel]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

I like the CV Penalty for trying to fire "standard" weapons from moving vehicles... WF indicates you know how to fire and load the weapon, once you've learned you don't forget just because someone stuck in on a jeep. It's just harder when both you and the target are mobile.

 

I would also say if you've bought WF: Vehicle Mounted Small Arms you negate the penalties, assuming the GM allowed such a WF in the game.

 

Or PSLs, as BigDamnHero suggest, are another good route.

[prestidigitator]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

Hmm. I believe there is already a penalty for characters making attacks in a moving vehicle, isn't there? -2 IIRC? Of course, that applies to all characters, whether or not they have an appropriate WF.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

Hmm. I believe there is already a penalty for characters making attacks in a moving vehicle' date=' isn't there? -2 IIRC? Of course, that applies to [i']all[/i] characters, whether or not they have an appropriate WF.

Correct. The question is whether it should count as a separate WF, in addition to the penalty. As with so many things, the consensus answer seems to be "Depends on the campaign."

 

 

bigdamnhero

“I'm not a liar. Not in this instance anyway.”

[Old Man]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

Hmm. I believe there is already a penalty for characters making attacks in a moving vehicle' date=' isn't there? -2 IIRC? Of course, that applies to [i']all[/i] characters, whether or not they have an appropriate WF.

 

I think they should have a separate skill for small arms mounted on vehicles. It is entirely different shooting either way.

[kave99]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

i would say that WF vehicle weapons applies to weapons attached to a vehicle and inseparable eg missals , canons, chain guns etc. but not to removable ordnance like a M-60. if it is removable it is not a vehicle weapon. the penalty ocv takes in to account the difficulty of firring from a moving vehicle ,the WF general purpose /heavy machine guns lets you use them.

 

that being said H5R pg 76 under the notes for WF general purpose /heavy machine guns that usually you do need WF vehicle weapons

[kave99]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

in addition the 2pt WF Small Arms dose not include general purpose /heavy machine guns and i cant think of a SMG or LMG being vehicle mounted on a military vehicle

[prestidigitator]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

You know, taking a Vehicle WF is a pretty big deal considering that it does not belong to any Broad Groups. I would allow a character with a WF for a particular vehicle to be proficient with every kind of weapon that is a part of that vehicle's standard configuration (yes, even for using it off of the vehicle). Thus there might be some overlap between a particular vehicle WF and another Group or Groups. You might be familiar with a particular heavy weapon that is normally mounted on your vehicle, but you won't be familiar with other heavy weapons unless you have more general WFs.

 

It's not about making a character take a billion WFs to be effective; it is about giving them a way to have an area of proficiency/expertise.

[ghost-angel]

Re: WF for Weapons on Vehicles v Vehicle Weapons

 

in addition the 2pt WF Small Arms dose not include general purpose /heavy machine guns and i cant think of a SMG or LMG being vehicle mounted on a military vehicle

Yes but they are a 1pt WF. The question being if you buy that do you then need to purchase WF: Jeep; WF: APC; et cetera to fire the M-60 from said vehicles?

 

The general concesus being - depends on the game and just how detailed/granular you really want to get.