Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

[schir1964]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Bump.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Dust Raven]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

I looked up Real Weapon (5ERp480)

 

It is a -1/4 Limitation that does the following:

Weapon must be maintained or it will lose effectiveness (swords become dull losing DC, guns might jam or get OCV penalties as the sights go off, et cetera)

The weapon acts "real" meaning a bullet can't break down a door, it will just put a bullet sized whole in it, and a sword won't chop stones in half.

 

That's all that one does (attacks can still be scaled, et cetera)

 

Beam (5ERp113)

Attacks must always be at full power, may not be spread and (similar to Real Weapon) "punch a hole" in the target, instead of created an overall force, like a puncturing type attack.

 

Beam still allows for bouncing (though the text does say many things that take Beam also take No Knockback and Cannot Be Bounced, but they are not required).

 

It looks like a Gun could conveivably take both Beam and Real Weapon (for a total -1/2) to fully simulate the idea of a Firearm shooting bullets in Hero.

 

Since this was bumped, I figured I'd point out ghost-angel here has described how guns are build for heroic campaign settings, per the equipment rules in 5E and 5ER.

[schir1964]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Since this was bumped' date=' I figured I'd point out ghost-angel here has described how guns are build for heroic campaign settings, per the equipment rules in 5E and 5ER.[/quote']

Yes, you are correct.

 

But what I was asking if this was enforced for the Superheroic genre by the GM's that run such games.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[ghost-angel]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

But what I was asking if this was enforced for the Superheroic genre by the GM's that run such games.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

I would personally enforce it if the gun were anywhere near a normal weapon.

 

My supermage has a .38 Revolver with the Beam Limitation.

 

Once you step into the realm of "Super Guns" ... well, all kinds of weird stuff happens.

[Silbeg]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

IME reducing damage voluntarily (other than by pulling a punch) is rare, so I do not think it warrants even a -1/4. The beam limitation and real weapon limtiations seem appropriate - the latter probably moreso: if you know what you are doing it IS possible to bounce rifle bullets under cars....

 

Assuming it is not worth a lim then it could be recorded as -0 (cannot reduce damage without major effort - emptying some powder from the case), so i suppose it could also be considered sfx.

 

Of course you should not be able to push a rifle bullet's damage either, and theat definitely IS worth a limitation, so maybe -1/4: cannot reduce damage voluntarily or increase it by pushing.

 

I agree with all of this, at least for "real world" weapons. Now, I can see an energy weapon being "dialable", but for the most part, a bullet is a bullet is a bullet.

 

Now, there will be those out there who will argue with that, but within the scope of the game, this is probably "good enough".

[schir1964]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

I would personally enforce it if the gun were anywhere near a normal weapon.

 

My supermage has a .38 Revolver with the Beam Limitation.

 

Once you step into the realm of "Super Guns" ... well, all kinds of weird stuff happens.

I agree. It just seemed odd that "normal" weapons (using normal bullets) don't automatically require the Beam Limitation for thier build by default for Superheroic games.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[ghost-angel]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

I agree. It just seemed odd that "normal" weapons (using normal bullets) don't automatically require the Beam Limitation for thier build by default for Superheroic games.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Technically - nothing is required for anything in any game.

 

The builds in the book are only "official" in that they're the way the rules suggest building them.

 

The only Limitation on weapons that is explicitely not for Superheroic Games is "STR Minimum" - everything else is kosher for any level.

[schir1964]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Technically - nothing is required for anything in any game.

 

The builds in the book are only "official" in that they're the way the rules suggest building them.

This is what I'm referring to when I use the word "Default".

 

Yes, the GM can override any "Default" way the book says to do something. Even when it says you must use Desolidification for Astral Projection, the GM can say, "Yeah, right."

 

So I'll put it another way.

 

I found it odd that they didn't make the Beam limitation the "Default" for builds of normal pistols/rifles (that use normal bullets) for Superheroic games like they did for Heroic games (all the pistols, rifles, and so forth, that appear in the equipment list were built with the Beam limitation).

 

And so I was curious how many GM actually enforce the Beam limitation for Superheroic games. Most who have responded do enforce it. And I agree.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[ghost-angel]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

This is what I'm referring to when I use the word "Default".

 

Yes, the GM can override any "Default" way the book says to do something. Even when it says you must use Desolidification for Astral Projection, the GM can say, "Yeah, right."

 

So I'll put it another way.

 

I found it odd that they didn't make the Beam limitation the "Default" for builds of normal pistols/rifles (that use normal bullets) for Superheroic games like they did for Heroic games (all the pistols, rifles, and so forth, that appear in the equipment list were built with the Beam limitation).

 

And so I was curious how many GM actually enforce the Beam limitation for Superheroic games. Most who have responded do enforce it. And I agree.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

I guess since I pull from the equipment list for both Heroic and Superheroic games when I need a gun I see that Beam is the default assumption in Superheroic games for guns.

 

It's only when I deviate from the equipment list for Superheroic do I consider something else.

 

But, as far as I'm concerned, Beam is a default Limitation for firearms in any level of play.

[name_tamer]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Of course you should not be able to push a rifle bullet's damage either' date=' and theat definitely IS worth a limitation[/quote']

 

That would be covered by the "Charges" limitation/advantage in most cases.

[Silbeg]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

That would be covered by the "Charges" limitation/advantage in most cases.

Sort of, I guess, since you cannot push a power that costs no endurance, right?

 

Of course you can still Haymaker your shot with a gun.

 

Ready...

 

 

Steady...

 

Oh, d@%^! He moved!

[name_tamer]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Sort of' date=' I guess, since you cannot push a power that costs no endurance, right?[/quote']

Right. And, 5ER specifically mentions powers that don't cost END because of charges as being unpushable.

 

Of course you can still Haymaker your shot with a gun.

 

Ready...

 

 

Steady...

 

Oh, d@%^! He moved!

 

[Dust Raven]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

But what I was asking if this was enforced for the Superheroic genre by the GM's that run such games.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Speaking as a GM that runs such games, I do not. Nor have I played in a superheroic campaign that did. In fact, I've actually played in at least one superheroic campaign that enforced the opposite and denied the use of Real Weapon and discouraged the use of Beam.

[Gideon]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

I believe that if a character has a power that automaticly comes with limitations due to SFX that the player should be told and given the choice whether or not to get the benifit of the points the limitations are worth or simply take then at -0.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

Say a character wants to have a comletely normal .357 M Colt Python gun. A Colt Python is a 6 shooter that deals 2d6-1.

 

It should be baught as:

.357 M Colt Python: RKA 2d6-1, OIF, Charges (X number of clips of 6 charges each), Beam, and possibly Real Weapon (if you use it).

 

If the player doesn't want to get the -1/4 for beam, that is fine with me but I am still going to enforce the SFX as if the limitation was there.

 

The same goes for all the limitaions inherent to the power.

[Vondy]

Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?

 

Conceptually, you could define "dialing down" an attack as placement, such as making a deliberate effort to hit a fleshy part of the body as opposed to aiming at something specifically lethal. This makes the most sense when hit locations aren't being used. In general, I allow real weapon or beam to be tacked onto such weapons, both as a modeling technique, and a way of defining the power for what it is. Yes, one could argue SFX could limit this without the limitation, but I'm easy.