Sociotard Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I'm building a K9 unit for a Dark Champions game that I hope to get into. Anyway, I had a couple of questions. 1) I'm setting up a few "Biting" powers, one of which is a Transform, Men into Castrated Men. I'm not sure if that's a Major Transform or what. I know almost every man would consider that loss "Major", but that organ doesn't really have any game effect. Right now I have it as a 3d6 Minor Transform. Which would you set it as? 2) Another biting power is "Takedown", meant to get people prone. I went with "Dispel Running", which would definitely stop any running character, but would it put them down? If I gave it "Does Knockback" could I say the knockback is pointed straight down? 3) How do I change the hit location chart in Hero Designer? I have the Bestiary, so I have the Canine hit location chart, but I don't know How to rig it to appear in the printout. 4) Dogs aren't allowed in most public buildings unless they're service dogs. Does that apply to police dogs? If so, do I give him the perk "police powers" and at what level? If not, what level of social limitation would it be? Come to think of it, I'll just post Akela and get feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgrandjean Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. 'Right, I'll bite... 1) Personally, I wouldn't bother with a castration power (Though sick balls does come to mind...). I'd just buy a couple of penalty skill levels vs location. A called shot to 13: the vitals does seem to be in order. 2) Knockback can be defined as straight down. What you want though is a couple of martial manuevers. A manuever with the takedown and hold elements is what you are looking for. See UMA for details. 4) The restrictions against dogs doesn't apply to police dogs. I'm not entirely familiar with coding so there might be some restrictions against bringing them into public health situations (such as food prep) without a warrant, but I'd assume that it depends on the situation. I'd give a 1-2pt perk for police powers (... how would you give miranda rights?....) and a whopping -15 social lim; animals don't possess nearly as many social rights as a human. Being shot and killed is concidered destruction of property for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Humm, interesting. Doubt that I would allow +4 PER with all sense groups AND Physical Limitation: Poor Eyesight, suffers -2 to all Sight PER Rolls Frequently, Greatly Impairing. This is a dog that works with a human partner, right? Had you considered martial throw for the takedown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. I did like the takedown and hold maneuver, I just didn't want to buy 15 points worth of martial arts when only one took my fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. It's +4 to all except eyesight. Did I write that down wrong? It just turned out to be cheaper to buy it for all senses at once instead of hearing and smell. Odd, eh? I figured it was okay, because that's how the bestiary did it. The running idea is I talk one of the other players into playing my partner. Otherwise I'll have to buy a follower. Granted, followers are cheap, but I personally think they're more trouble than they're worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. I obviously spent too long working this weekend.... I looked at the subject header and read "A couple of Cocaine questions" Is your game a comic-relief one? Cant otherwise see the point of the Transform power. Also, in game terms, unless there is a points cost for reproduction, I'd say it was probably a cosmetic transform and can be undone by certain medical procedures. Sure, to you or I it's not cosmetic, but the game impact is negligible. Mostly I agree with tgrandjean's comments - i think you're overcomplicating things. He knocks people down using a maneuver (some variant on 'Throw' perhaps). I'd handwave the whole dogs not in buildings thing... in most cases, who's really gonna argue with it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. "Sin City" wasn't a comic relief movie, but the act of tearing off a perps genitalia was prominently featured. That's actually where I got the idea. Besides, it was only two points in the multipower. *sigh* every body keeps pointing to using martial arts. I guess I should take another look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. "Sin City" wasn't a comic relief movie, but the act of tearing off a perps genitalia was prominently featured. That's actually where I got the idea. Besides, it was only two points in the multipower. *sigh* every body keeps pointing to using martial arts. I guess I should take another look at it. I'm pretty positive there's an animal in the Bestiary that has just one martial maneuver. And I think it's Takedown. As for the bite, go with levels versus Hit Locations. Also, the horse has PER levels with all sense but sight (no limitation given). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. There's a set of animal appropriate manuvers arranged in a "style" of sorts. "Red in Tooth and Claw" IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. The catration (whimper) power might better be represented by a called shot to the vitals (offset with PSL) and the Impairing/Disabling rules. That way you don't have to worry about the some condition that can reverse/cure the condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fur Face Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. I was a K9 cop for 12 years in the AF, I can tell you a couple of things: 1) normal police dogs are trained to attack limbs, tackle (possibly), bite and hold (not thrash). They also are trained to attack first a limb with a visible weapon, especially a firing gun. You should definitely go for hit locations & martial maneuvers. 2) dogs are also usually taught aggression and to look for narcotics or explosives, not both. 3) Sense of sight was up to 5 times better than a human, though it doesn't see for reading & such, it was for seeing silhoutes & movement. If you've ever seen a dog bob his up, down or sideways, he was trying to get a better "movement/shilhoute lock" 4) Sense of hearing was up to 10 times better than ours, sense of smell was up to 400 times better than ours. They can track/locate people because they can pick up odor concentrations, like walking towards food that's being cooked and getting a stronger smell the closer you get to it. They also pick up the special hormanes your sweat out when afraid (fear scent). They know you're afraid, they presume its them making you afraid, and they act accordingly. 5) Just for giggles, we used to have a big, 108 lbs German rottweiler named Bill. The Germans will beat police dogs with rubber hoses to make them tough, & able to fight with humans. One of our favorite tricks was to put a suspect on his belly spread eagle on the ground, then put Bill between their legs. Nothing like the hot breath of a 108 lbs monster breathing on your family jewels. FWIW, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Awesome, I didn't expect info from a real K9 cop! I'll rep you as soon as I can. Hmmm, I only used the "bad vision" disadvantage because it was in the bestiary. I actually just used the bestiary Wolf to start with. Maybe I'll think of something to replace that lim. I did improve hearing and smell, and gave the character Tracking for smell and uultrasonic for hearing, so that's covered. I haven't given the character any "detect fear" powers, but that would be pretty durn cool. Would it have to be a Telepathy power, I wonder, or could I get away with "Detect Fear" added to the Smell Group? I knew that K9 only get drugs OR bombs training, but the Knowledge skills were so cheap I got them both. hey, it is a Heroic level dog after all, he's allowed extra training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Here's a question for Fur Face: Do K9 dogs generally live with their partners or in a kennel? I looked up Kevlar vests for dogs. Could the dogs partner buy a vest for the dog? Because they're so expensive it doesn't seem like they'd be standard issue. EDIT: I should have looked at Wikipedia first. It says the dogs do live in handlers homes, they can get their vests from anywhere (including several charitable organizations that exist for that very purpose). It says they're trained to not kill (or even seriously injure), so I may need to get the code against killing, at least a weak version. It also mentioned the use of dogs to find dead and rotting people. apparently, they can even smell bodies under running water. I'm studying diffusion right now, so I know that's impressive I also took off the "locking Jaw" power. I knew that wolves couldn't really lock their jaws. I just liked the idea of a hold where I could be stunned, KOed, or even dead and still not let go. Oh, well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fur Face Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Sociotard, It depends on your level of realism. If you want your dog to be cinematic, then allow him to lock his jaw. They are trained to bite & hold, which can produce holes that won't bleed for hours. Its when a suspect struggles they get a lot of other damage. Most people are too frightened to do much of anything else. They are also trained to protect the handler by immediatly attacking if the suspect attacks you. The dog would have a held action or covering, and would then be able to attack. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Hey, since you were a K9 cop in the military, did you ever see one of these? I was just trying to look up some equipment to give him when I found it. They're IIIA Kevlar dog vests with straps so they can be attached to parachuters (or carried around, if you feel like toting a 80-90 pound dog). Arial Insertion Vest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave99 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. and a whopping -15 social lim; animals don't possess nearly as many social rights as a human. Being shot and killed is concidered destruction of property for example. well it probably changes based on local laws but i seem to remember there being vary nasty laws regarding killing a police dog in line with shooting a human cop.http://www.napwda.com/valor/k9vasko.phtml makes reference to charges for killing a police dog in parts of the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. It varies from city to city, and I don't know what the deal is for the HCPD. I know that in Idaho it is a felony to shoot a police dog. That story you linked to is cool though. I was impressed that the dog kept fighting after getting shot in the head. Maybe I should get Akela some "Resistance" In other examples of dogs getting a good deal, I read about a few counties in which the dog got a pension that covered doggy bones and vet visits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fur Face Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Yes, but when I was in we quit doing that because of the high injury rate for the animals. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. I'm pretty positive there's an animal in the Bestiary that has just one martial maneuver. And I think it's Takedown. As for the bite' date=' go with levels versus Hit Locations. Also, the horse has PER levels with all sense but sight (no limitation given).[/quote'] That would be the cheetah writeup. Unless there is another one I'm not aware of. Also, buying Enhanced Perception is 2 pts per sense group, but buying it for all sense groups only 3pts. So buying a dogs hearing, smell/taste and touch groups seperatly would actually be twice as expensive expensive as buying all sense groups and just taking the -0 lim for not with Sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. That's awesome. I'm building a silver age flagsuit right now. I think he just got himself a sidekick. The aerial insertion vest is the kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. oh, and just because I remembered seeing it a while back: French Police Dogs vid clip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave99 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. ouch!!!! remind me to be vary good next time I'm in France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: A couple of Canine questions. Awesome Video! The dog ripped the guy out of the car by his arm. I'm going to have to think about how to do that. EDIT: you must spread around some reputation before giving it to bloodstone again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail Quest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Enhanced Senes -> "free" Tracking and other benefits 4) Sense of hearing was up to 10 times better than ours, sense of smell was up to 400 times better than ours. They can track/locate people because they can pick up odor concentrations, like walking towards food that's being cooked and getting a stronger smell the closer you get to it. They also pick up the special hormanes your sweat out when afraid (fear scent). They know you're afraid, they presume its them making you afraid, and they act accordingly. Commonly, a character can Track by Sight because sight is good enough to detect a sufficiently gross amount of physical evidence. So... * at what amount of Enhanced Hearing can someone hear into the Ultrasonic range? * at what amount of Enhanced Smell can someone Track by Smell? etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Re: Enhanced Senes -> "free" Tracking and other benefits Commonly, a character can Track by Sight because sight is good enough to detect a sufficiently gross amount of physical evidence. So... * at what amount of Enhanced Hearing can someone hear into the Ultrasonic range? * at what amount of Enhanced Smell can someone Track by Smell? etc... 10 points. Tracking sense. And now for another question: Police and MP dogs are trained (very effectively, IMHO) to threaten. What sort of PRE skill is this? Is it Oratory? Persuasion? Interrogation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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