PhilFleischmann Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 In generic terms: What would be the best way to create a character that has two forms - (Multiform, obviously) Wait! I wasn't finished! ...two forms, but he can also be both of them at the same time. (Well, that'd be Duplication.) Yes, but that means he's either Form A (the base form) or both Form A and Form B, but he can't be just Form B. (Well, he could Duplicate, and then just have Form A go hide in a closet.) Yes. And if Form A can hide in a closet, why not just say that Form A doesn't cuurently exist? Should that be an Adder or Advantage to the Duplication? Or should it be free? Sure, I could buy both Multiform and Duplication, but that seems an awful lot like having to pay for Form B twice, for not nearly the utility that I'd get for *one* additional form. Currently, I'm leaning toward an Adder (5 points?) to allow either form to be considered the "base" form - not really the base form in a rules-sense, but that either form can "go away" when he turns off the Duplication. Form A is *really* the base form, but he can be Form B *instead* OR *in addition*. How would you do this? (And yes, the two forms are different, so the Dup needs the "Altered Duplicates" advantage. I already know that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo OK, but what happens if Form B dies while Form A isn't around? Does Form A get to go on living? I'd say, go for a 5 point adder. It's not terribly useful so it shouldn't cost you too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo Multipower is your ally. Use it wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Limmer Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo My first thought: buy Multiform and Duplication. Then put a limitation one or the other (or both?) worded something like "duplicates can't be in the same form, and can't change form". My second thought: buy Multiform. Buy Duplication with Lockout (can't use Multiform when Duplication is active). I'm not sure exactly what values the limitations should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo Pretty much what DR said. Buy this power as both Duplication and Multiform but put each inside your special all GM approved Multipower. Slot 1 Superduper FireStorm Mode Slot 2 Smart guy and Jock duplication mode That is how I did it. More bang for my buck. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo Dust Raven beat me to it by over 12 hours: Multipower. (This is actually something I've been giving a lot of thought to for several months now, because of the Teen Champions game I'm running. The Harper brothers [12 NPCs] are different people with different powers and abilities, but they all share one body, and only one of them can be in control of it at a time. [That's just Multiform.] Naturally enough, being teenaged boys, they'd really to each have their own body...after all, who wants your 11 brothers looking on through your eyes and making "witty comments" in your mind when you're on a hot date?. One of the 12 brothers, Zach, codenamed "Legion", can create 11 duplicates of himself, so there are 12 bodies total. [That's just Duplication, natch.] There's a sort of assumption among the people who know the brothers that there's a reason Zach can create 11 duplicate bodies when he has 11 "twin brothers" -- so that eventually they'll all be able to have their own body! So far, though they've tried, the other brothers can't take over and control one of Zach's duplicates, and while his duplicates are in existance he can't hand over control of the "base" body to any of the other brothers. Since they're just freshmen, I don't really forsee a ready solution to this until their junior or senior year, so I've got some time before I have to really worry about it. Still, I'm not sure how I'm going to handle this. Nick, the brother codenamed "Gestalt" is the one with Multiform; it's one of the Multiforms, Zach, who has the Duplication! So they don't exactly overlap...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo OK' date=' but what happens if Form B dies while Form A isn't around? Does Form A get to go on living?[/quote'] Nope. If he's Form B only and gets killed, then he's dead. If he's both A and B and one of them gets killed, he's the other one only. So... Multipower, eh? Hmmm... 350-point character "Form A" 105 - pool 10u Duplication: 1 350-point Duplicate "Form B", 50% Different (+1/2) 7u Multiform: 1 other 350-point form (the same as the duplicate "Form B") Xu \ Yu > Other powers that Form A can use while neither of the above are being used Zu / Total: 122 (+X +Y +Z) 228 (-X -Y -Z) points left for other powers, characteristics, skills, etc., of Form A. That seems about right. Apart from the "GM permission requires to put Special Powers in a Framework," have I done everything right? In case you're interested, here are the specifics: The character is a wizard. The public story is that he has a gargoyle assistant, but the gargoyle is actually him in a different form. Having gained some XP, I'd like to have him be able to be both at the same time. It prevents people from getting suspicious. "How come you never see the wizard and the gargoyle together? Oh wait, there they both are." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted May 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo So essentially, I'm paying 17 extra points to do this. That doesn't seem excessive. I guess the reason I hadn't thought of this approach is that, while I usually have no problem with doing "GM's permission only" stuff, the restriction on Duplication in a Framework is one I generally agree with. That was a specific example in FREd of the GM not giving permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo So essentially, I'm paying 17 extra points to do this. That doesn't seem excessive. I guess the reason I hadn't thought of this approach is that, while I usually have no problem with doing "GM's permission only" stuff, the restriction on Duplication in a Framework is one I generally agree with. That was a specific example in FREd of the GM not giving permission. I generally agree with it as well, but if the only other Power in the Framework is Multiform, then it's OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ideasmith Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo I generally agree with it as well' date=' but if the only other Power in the Framework is Multiform, then it's OK.[/quote'] It is important that the Duplicate and the Multiform are basically the same form. Having a Multiform & Duplicate in a Multipower would be very abusive if they had different sets of powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo It is important that the Duplicate and the Multiform are basically the same form. Having a Multiform & Duplicate in a Multipower would be very abusive if they had different sets of powers. It would depend on the build. I had a concept once of a pair of characters that would merge into a single character. The single character wasn't significently more powerful than the pair, but had a massively different set of powers. I wrote it up using the Multiform/Duplication MP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo Coming in a bit late here, but what about a Multiform with two alternate forms. The base form is Form A. One Multiform is Form B, and the second is one of the two Forms with Duplication, Cannot Recombine to spin off the other Form as a duplicate. I'm not sure the cost will vary markedly from the multipower, but it has the advantage of being book-legal, since it uses no frameworks. Assuming that both characters are 350 points, with a 50% differentiation, based on your Multipower, the character with Duplication would be a 455 point character (350 + 105 for Duplication), so 91 points for the Multiform, plus 5 for the second form, = 96. That's cheaper than just the Duplication, although you need another 105 points of Disad's, or need to strip 105 points from the base form to balance him. It would make some sense to reduce the base form's abilities when both forms are around, both for play balance and to reflect the difficulties involved in being two people at once. Maybe the Wizard loses some of his magical abilities while maintaining the duplicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo It would depend on the build. I had a concept once of a pair of characters that would merge into a single character. The single character wasn't significently more powerful than the pair' date=' but had a massively different set of powers. I wrote it up using the Multiform/Duplication MP.[/quote'] Seems to me that could also be done with Linked (both ways) Multiform and Duplication. The, "merged," form is the one with both powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Re: Duplication/Multiform Combo Thread Necromancy! (I feel like my soul is being corrupted somehow.) I have no idea why I lost track of this thread. I asked the question, and I really did want an answer. Thank you all for the suggestions. Regarding Hugh's suggestion (which I'm leaning toward now), the example would be: 350-point base Form A - the Wizard who has 75 points in Multiform (2 350-point forms) and 275 points worth of other stuff Form B - The Gargoyle 350 points worth of stuff (is this right? The Gargoyle doesn't have to pay for the Multiform too, does he?) Form C - Both Forms Wizard and Gargoyle (perhaps with "Cannot Recombine") Duplication: 105 points (70 for the additional 350-point form, and +35 +1/2 Altered Duplicates advantage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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