Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

[Nolgroth]

Okay, first off, if you are participating in, or plan to participate in an Alien Wars campaign as a player, just stop reading now. I would hate for you to ruin something that your GM is planning for you by reading info that is contained in the GM's Vault section of the book. With that warning posted.....

 

 

 

 

I don't get it. The Xenovores were created by a race that wanted to survive a nuclear holocaust? It's not like the race recreated their own forms, they created a whole new species that exists only to kill the other factions (and the creators in the bargain). Where does that make any sense at all?

 

Please don't get me wrong. I love Alien Wars and I think the Xenovores as a species are really cool. I just can't buy into the whole origin story. Thoughts?

 

(I have an alternate origin story in mind, one that involves some other species that bred the Xenovores to be their warriors. Something like the Robotech Masters using the Zentraedi as their enforcement arm.)

[Mantis]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I don't get it. The Xenovores were created by a race that wanted to survive a nuclear holocaust? It's not like the race recreated their own forms, they created a whole new species that exists only to kill the other factions (and the creators in the bargain). Where does that make any sense at all?

 

Please don't get me wrong. I love Alien Wars and I think the Xenovores as a species are really cool. I just can't buy into the whole origin story. Thoughts?

 

(I have an alternate origin story in mind, one that involves some other species that bred the Xenovores to be their warriors. Something like the Robotech Masters using the Zentraedi as their enforcement arm.)

I agree. When I saw the origin... man, I felt ripped off.

 

My back-of-the-envelope modified re-write is:

 

Many generations ago, the Xenovore homeworld was devastated by a nuclear holocaust. Fortunately for their race, they already had stardrive, albeit a slow, primitive version, and had small colonies around other stars. When the holocaust occured, only the strongest and most aggressive members of their race survived the collapse of their otherwise advanced civilization to be rescued, a process that took time due to the small number of ships and their slow interstellar speed. The colonists had been specially selected for their superior intellect, independent nature, and physical hardiness - the deep end of the gene pool. Mixed with the strength and aggression of the holocaust survivors (who had all absorbed a smidge more radiation than normal), the nature of the race evolved dramatically. Further, the dramatic lesson of the loss of their "home" created a sense of co-operation amongst all the colonies regardless of their prior allegiances - something that would have been impossible before.

 

It took dozens of generations to recover from the loss of the resources of the homeworld, but once the colonies began to thrive, and indeed surpass their previous level of technology and produce an improved, fast stardrive, they embarked on a program of territorial expansion. Although this effort was co-operative between all their worlds, all members of a colony were loyal to their own world first, and to the greater hegemony second - the old seeds of mistrust of others were not dead, merely dormant. Each colony attempted to out-do their "rivals" in speed and scope of their conquests. Their aims were simple acquisition of land and resources to make their colony the dominant one. Their methods were no different than those of Hitler's Germany - take possession by force, and enslave the native population.

 

Mankind were just another slave race to the Xenovores, who acquired the name after a report of the new race eating human flesh turned into a major propaganda campaign to inspire resistance amongst front-line troops. Even when the report was proved to be false and it became clear the Xenovores were mere space-Nazis, the name stuck.

 

Ulimately, the Xenovores were defeated because of their "colony-first" mindset. If an area controlled by one colony was attacked, neighbouring colonies were slow to provide assistance, if they helped at all (imagine the Civil War being fought with the armies of the South refusing to leave their state borders, while the North hurled the bulk of their force against each in turn).

 

I've also replaced all their bio-tech with regular, albeit alien, technology. I did keep the concept of Genotypes, although as a result of evolution rather than design.

[starblaze]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I am running an Alien Wars game myself and although I am having some fun with it I admit that I was somewhat disappointed with the rather backhanded way that the Xenovores were treated. It seemed that Mr. Thomas was more interested in describing UE universe and just left most Xenovore info to the GM to deal with.

 

I would have liked to have seem actual character sheets of Xenovore monsters and different alien warriors.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Personally I'd like to see an expansive book on the Xenovores, geared for use in Terran Empire, Alien Wars, or Galactic Champions (in that order; TE is, after all, the more broadly-supported line of the three).

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

As fond as I am of Allen Thomas's writing, I have to admit that I found the Xenovore origin a bit of an anti-climax. Particularly disappointing in comparison to the awesome backstory Allen put into DEMON: Servants Of Darkness.

 

 

(I have an alternate origin story in mind' date=' one that involves some other species that bred the Xenovores to be their warriors. Something like the Robotech Masters using the Zentraedi as their enforcement arm.)[/quote']

 

That's exactly my take on it. Since I'm running a modified Hero Universe campaign, I made the Xenovores the creation of the Elder Worm. After the Worm empire was overthrown by the Malvans, the few surviving Xenovores fled to the edges of the galaxy, much as they do after the Alien Wars era. As the Malvan Empire declined, the Xenovores began to gather and build their own powerbase.

 

Practically speaking this doesn't change the AW setting or timeline in any significant way. OTOH it does open up some intriguing story possibilities for interaction among the Xenovores, the Elder Worm and the Kings of Edom, at least IMHO.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I would have liked to have seem actual character sheets of Xenovore monsters and different alien warriors.

 

There are a number of HERO writeups available for Tyranids, from Warhammer 40,000. Since the Tyranids have numerous similarities in style, motivation and campaign function to Xenovores, they should be fairly easy to adapt to add spice to your Alien Wars campaign. Here's where you can find several interpretations of Tyranids:

 

http://www.tigerseyemedia.com/tiger/40kbugs.html

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26098

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscreatures/fiction/tyranidlictor.html

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40707 (HDC file for the Lictor writeup above)

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

As fond as I am of Allen Thomas's writing' date=' I have to admit that I found the Xenovore origin a bit of an anti-climax. Particularly disappointing in comparison to the awesome backstory Allen put into [i']DEMON: Servants Of Darkness[/i].

The concept behind the Xenovores is really cool. The origin just doesn't make any sense to me. It would be like us (humans) creating a separate race to survive our own nuclear destruction. Pardon me, but I could give a rat's rearend whether another species survives a holocaust. I want me and mine to. After re-reading the section, I gather that the creator race wanted to use the Xenovores as soldiers, but I think I would have done that before the nuclear war happened.

 

That's exactly my take on it. Since I'm running a modified Hero Universe campaign, I made the Xenovores the creation of the Elder Worm. After the Worm empire was overthrown by the Malvans, the few surviving Xenovores fled to the edges of the galaxy, much as they do after the Alien Wars era. As the Malvan Empire declined, the Xenovores began to gather and build their own powerbase.

 

Practically speaking this doesn't change the AW setting or timeline in any significant way. OTOH it does open up some intriguing story possibilities for interaction among the Xenovores, the Elder Worm and the Kings of Edom, at least IMHO.

 

Nice idea, but other than the little teaser in Terran Empire, I know next to nothing about the Elder Worm. You are right though, it wouldn't adversely affect the AW setting/timeline in any way.

 

Are the Elder Worm detailed in any other setting book?

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I agree. When I saw the origin... man, I felt ripped off.

 

My back-of-the-envelope modified re-write is:

(snipped for brevity)

It's an interesting take on the idea, but I actually did like the bio-engineering aspect of the Xenovores. I just felt that the concept of building a super soldier race of monsters that delighted in the consumption of sentient life-forms was stretching the bounds of plausibility. The creator race would have been a bunch of psychopaths to begin with. And why didn't they build in a failsafe, to keep their creations from turning on them? None of the origin story made sense.

 

Now you take a race of technologically advanced beings who have a streak of cruelty in them, give them a genome from an already successful predator species to play with, and you get the Xenovores. Throw in a dash of creator race "behind the scenes puppeteering" and you get a nice Alien Wars setting. And the beauty part is that, once the Xenovores are defeated, the creator race is still hanging around "out there." Who knows when they will make a second bid at conquest and who will their new pawns be? Just some thoughts.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I always wondered if it was just me. There were parts of Alien Wars that I really enjoyed, but for the most part it felt very haphazard and "me too." I'm all for creating a new World War II - but - maybe this'll sound odd - there was no WAR in my copy of Alien Wars. When I bought the book I was curious about the setting, the creatures, and the war proper.

 

But there's no real war in it; the war is over before you're through the opening of the book. "There were these nasty aliens. We beat them, and the Terran Empire was born! Huzzah!" And I sat there thinking "Wait... what now?" I was expecting more what LL & Nolgroth are driving at; a full bestiary, a complete breakdown of all their tech and write ups to go with it, a complete, expanded timeline giving major points of conflict, individual heroes, and so on. I just felt ripped on the whole thing in general.

 

Insofar as the origin story? It was a stretch but that wasn't what bugged me - I was already annoyed by the things I mentioned prior, so it was almost like "Oh... and this doesn't make a lot of sense. Huh, okay." By the time I got to that section I was much more relieved that there was some material on them - how their caste system works, some information on how they operated during the War, and so on - that I glossed over the whole "build a version of us that can eat anything, including us. Great! Wait, what? Oh, crap."

 

In space, no one can hear their food scream.

 

For alternate origin theories, the first I thought of was a variation on Aliens, similar to what was mentioned above. They were never meant to have sentience and independence; they were built as super bio-weapons; stronger, tougher, faster, and entirely capable of being deployed with ZERO equipment. Their stealth tactics and ability to eat their kills could maintain them indefinately. You then make them susceptible to a specific genome that you release aerosol style that puts them down when it hits their DNA, and voila. You purge a planet or zone, you kill your own weapon (they're just weapons, after all) and start a full hostile takeover, leaving the bulk of the resources & buildings intact. Why a species instead of a bioagent?

 

You can wear a rebreather to handle a bioagent. Good luck boarding up your doors & windows to stop these bad boys! And once they start spawning, well. Ick. You've got the world's worst cockroach problem. And that would make sense to me. Then, of course, at some point in the dev cycle, one of 'em figures out what the game is, gets some elaborate plan together to free his people, and voila. An origin story that makes sense. And that would've been hundreds of years ago, giving ample time for them to build a culture & battle squadron all their own.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

It's an interesting take on the idea' date=' but I actually did like the bio-engineering aspect of the Xenovores. I just felt that the concept of building a super soldier race of monsters that delighted in the consumption of sentient life-forms was stretching the bounds of plausibility. The creator race would have been a bunch of psychopaths to begin with. And why didn't they build in a failsafe, to keep their creations from turning on them? None of the origin story made sense.[/quote']

 

While I share some of your reservations about the specific origin of the Xenovores, one of the classic tropes of science fiction involves the creation of a weapon so deadly that it escapes its creators' control, becoming as great a menace to them as to their enemies. This usually involves some kind of "doomsday device" meant to be used only as a last resort. Fred Saberhagen's Berserker novel series involves weapons of that type, and more recently, engineered viruses have become the hot subject. There's been some speculation (and even a few stories published in novels, comics and the like) that the creatures from the "Alien" films are such a weapon, and the pilot of the ship from the first film was one of their creators who was killed when they got loose. Heck, in the real world nuclear weapons could easily have gone that route if the Cold War had sparked, which it nearly did on more than one occasion.

 

You don't need psychopaths to create something like this, just a little too much hatred and fear to lead to building it, and a little too much arrogance to believe you have it under control.

 

(Oh, and Jurassic Park gives a cautionary finger to the idea of "failsafes.")

 

 

Nice idea, but other than the little teaser in Terran Empire, I know next to nothing about the Elder Worm. You are right though, it wouldn't adversely affect the AW setting/timeline in any way.

 

Are the Elder Worm detailed in any other setting book?

 

The greatest information about the Elder Worm is found in the entries for the supervillain Slug from Conquerors, Killers And Crooks and Galactic Champions. The Slug is a noble of their race, and those books detail him, lesser Elder Worms, and some of their artifacts. Reportedly there's a little more about them in the new SH sourcebook, Worlds Of Empire.

 

Essentially, the Elder Worms are an ancient malevolent magic using race, in the style of "Lovecraftian" Horrors from Beyond. They served the Kings of Edom (think Lovecraft's Old Ones), and dominated much of this galaxy, including Earth in the days of Mankind's infancy, until being all but wiped out in a long bitter war with the Malvans. Pockets of the Elder Worms continued to survive in hidden refuges on Earth and other worlds; sometimes secretly ruling the natives, at other times entering a state of dormancy until conditions are ripe for them to awaken and attempt to seize power again.

 

This recent discussion board thread collected all the extant Elder Worm references in Fifth Edition publications: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42952

 

I will say that if you're looking for vileness in a race to justify their creating something as monstrous as the Xenovores, the Worms would qualify. They have no respect or empathy for any other lifeform, and would reduce all other sentients to either abject slaves, subjects for hideous experimentation, or food.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

While I share some of your reservations about the specific origin of the Xenovores' date=' one of the classic tropes of science fiction involves the creation of a weapon so deadly that it escapes its creators' control, becoming as great a menace to them as to their enemies. This usually involves some kind of "doomsday device" meant to be used only as a last resort. Fred Saberhagen's [i']Berserker[/i] novel series involves weapons of that type, and more recently, engineered viruses have become the hot subject. There's been some speculation (and even a few stories published in novels, comics and the like) that the creatures from the "Alien" films are such a weapon, and the pilot of the ship from the first film was one of their creators who was killed when they got loose. Heck, in the real world nuclear weapons could easily have gone that route if the Cold War had sparked, which it nearly did on more than one occasion.

I will give you this one, sort of. The purpose of a RPG is to explore those tropes and this information is classified as "super-secret GM only information" that isn't even discovered in the final days of the war. While it is available for the GM to hand out as appropriate, there was a strong implication that even the Xenovores do not truly remember how they came about.

 

You don't need psychopaths to create something like this, just a little too much hatred and fear to lead to building it, and a little too much arrogance to believe you have it under control.

 

(Oh, and Jurassic Park gives a cautionary finger to the idea of "failsafes.")

Yes, but it did indeed describe the act of "nature" overcoming the built-in failsafe that the scientists built into the dinos. That is one area where the Xenovore history fails. It's remarkable that I truly love the Alien Wars setting and even the Xenovores for wha they are, but their origin is such a nitpick. If it were the exactly same kind of history, phrased with a little more consideration to rationality, I would have loved it. Something like (and this is very abbreviated);

The species that created the Xenovores was more advanced in bioengineering than other fields. Centuries ago, they discovered nuclear technologies and developed a staggering stockpile of nuclear weapons. Six super-powers controlled their world, each with its own arsenal. While five of these nations pursued missile defense programs, one decided on a more cunning scheme. The leaders of the sixth faction decided to create a bio-weapon based on the genome of a pack predator native to their homeworld and release it against the other five factions.

 

Since the precise effects of a nuclear holocaust were largely unknown, the creators of the Xenovores loaded the new genome with as many recessive traits as possible, so they could survive and continue their mission in the event of war. They also enabled a "passive response" trait to a certain pheremone signature, so they could control these splendid new weapons.

 

The war was started by unleashing of the Xenovores. Much of the population was destroyed outright, but the Xenovores were made well and were able to subjugate the remainder of the population for their masters. It would have ended there, had the Xenovores not developed several traits that their masters had never conceived. The first and most important development was an accelerated birthrate. The population of Xenovores soon outnumbered the creator race. The second trait was a form of sentience, coupled with an urge to consume other sentient creatures. The masters were baffled by these developments and sought ways to correct this oversight. It was too late. The development of other genotypes that could override the "passive response" trait with an overriding pheremone signature of their own signaled the end of the creator race, who became the first slave/food race.

This is just a quick example of how the same basic history could have been written. I'm sure there as many holes in my own version, but it was meant to give an example of how and why a bio-weapon like the Xenovores would have been created and how the creators lost control.

 

The greatest information about the Elder Worm is found in the entries for the supervillain Slug from Conquerors, Killers And Crooks and Galactic Champions. The Slug is a noble of their race, and those books detail him, lesser Elder Worms, and some of their artifacts. Reportedly there's a little more about them in the new SH sourcebook, Worlds Of Empire.

 

Essentially, the Elder Worms are an ancient malevolent magic using race, in the style of "Lovecraftian" Horrors from Beyond. They served the Kings of Edom (think Lovecraft's Old Ones), and dominated much of this galaxy, including Earth in the days of Mankind's infancy, until being all but wiped out in a long bitter war with the Malvans. Pockets of the Elder Worms continued to survive in hidden refuges on Earth and other worlds; sometimes secretly ruling the natives, at other times entering a state of dormancy until conditions are ripe for them to awaken and attempt to seize power again.

 

This recent discussion board thread collected all the extant Elder Worm references in Fifth Edition publications: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42952

 

I will say that if you're looking for vileness in a race to justify their creating something as monstrous as the Xenovores, the Worms would qualify. They have no respect or empathy for any other lifeform, and would reduce all other sentients to either abject slaves, subjects for hideous experimentation, or food.

Hurm, will have to wait until I can get both Worlds of Empire and CKC. Sounds like an interesting race, on par with the Shadows of Babylon 5.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I always wondered if it was just me. There were parts of Alien Wars that I really enjoyed, but for the most part it felt very haphazard and "me too." I'm all for creating a new World War II - but - maybe this'll sound odd - there was no WAR in my copy of Alien Wars. When I bought the book I was curious about the setting, the creatures, and the war proper.

 

But there's no real war in it; the war is over before you're through the opening of the book. "There were these nasty aliens. We beat them, and the Terran Empire was born! Huzzah!" And I sat there thinking "Wait... what now?" I was expecting more what LL & Nolgroth are driving at; a full bestiary, a complete breakdown of all their tech and write ups to go with it, a complete, expanded timeline giving major points of conflict, individual heroes, and so on. I just felt ripped on the whole thing in general.

One of the HERO sourcebooks weaknesses is the breadth over depth approach. They tend to cover a very large section of time and throw as much information at you as possible. I think it might have been more digestable if they split each section into its own mini-sourcebook. That way each history, knowledge gleaned of the history, tech levels, etc could have been segregated from the next section.

 

Overall, I can take what was given and turn it into what I want, so I have few real gripes with Alien Wars. It was well written and worth every penny. Most of the things that I do have a problem with (Xenovore origin, lack of spaceship illustrations) I can easily modify. Sure, I am probably going to have to re-write the ship specs due to the source I'm using for the visuals (if it even matters for day to day play), but the creation of organizations and NPCs makes things real easy. I like the illustrations of the star charts with solar system composition on them. One of the best things about the book, IMO.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

One of the HERO sourcebooks weaknesses is the breadth over depth approach. They tend to cover a very large section of time and throw as much information at you as possible. I think it might have been more digestable if they split each section into its own mini-sourcebook. That way each history' date=' knowledge gleaned of the history, tech levels, etc could have been segregated from the next section.[/quote']

 

I think you may be on to something here, larger than I had originally thought in terms of what is and is not an issue. It explains quite a bit, though. Food for thought. Thanks, Nolgroth. I know that Fantasy Hero & Star Hero are both built on the same general idea - here's a HUGE book with everything we could conceivably fit for you to use this genre with minimal pain & suffering.

 

I think what I'm looking for in my source books is what you describe (and I don't get it from d20 either - don't get me started). I would have preferred - again, maybe just me - that it be about the WAR. The actual war proper, with anecdotes, more gear, clearer write ups and possibly (I hadn't noticed) more art for things that need to retain a certain look. I want details of major battle sites and then all of that "to create your own site, follow this outline." Best of both worlds. I can do all that - but I buy sourcebooks so I don't have too.

[JDHMorgan2003]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I don't have my copy handy, but I thought they used themselves in their bioengineering. They tried loading every possible gene so they could survive when the war happened. I liked the concept of cannibalism linked to population growth. But I agree, they probably hadn't really looked at how far it could go.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Hurm' date=' will have to wait until I can get both Worlds of Empire and CKC. Sounds like an interesting race, on par with the Shadows of Babylon 5.[/quote']

 

One of the more gruesome abilities of the Slug is his Talisman of the Elder Worm, which has the power to transform humans (and in Galactic Champions, other races) into Elder Worms, body, mind and soul... because these races possess latent Elder Worm genes, implanted in them as a result of Worm experiments on their ancient ancestors.

 

Given that precedent, engineering Xenovores certainly wouldn't be a stretch for them.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

One of the more gruesome abilities of the Slug is his Talisman of the Elder Worm' date=' which has the power to transform humans (and in [i']Galactic Champions[/i], other races) into Elder Worms, body, mind and soul... because these races possess latent Elder Worm genes, implanted in them as a result of Worm experiments on their ancient ancestors.

 

Given that precedent, engineering Xenovores certainly wouldn't be a stretch for them.

I think NOT engineering Xenovores would be a stretch for them. The Slug talisman sounds nasty. Reminds me of a Robert Bloch story about an anthropologist that transforms into the creature he is studying, just by handling the bones.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I think you may be on to something here' date=' larger than I had originally thought in terms of what is and is not an issue. It explains quite a bit, though. Food for thought. Thanks, Nolgroth. I know that Fantasy Hero & Star Hero are both built on the same general idea - here's a HUGE book with everything we could conceivably fit for you to use this genre with minimal pain & suffering.[/quote']I think for the genre books like Fantasy HERO or Star HERO, that is a good strategy. Provide a huge information dump and let the reader pick what fits his own interests.

 

In the setting books like Alien Wars, and Turakian Age, that tactic is the worse possible thing you can do. Sometimes I notice that the settings are so vast, the little details are lost. Sort of like not being able to see the tree for the forest. Also, the lack of some supplemental art does tend to diminish the work as a whole. I know that HERO has a finite operating budget and so I can let that slide a little, but it would be sweet to see a decent illustration of a Liberty class dreadnought. As it is, I have unofficially replaced all of the terran ships with the argon ships from X3: Reunion. I say unofficially, because I haven't put stat to any of them yet.

 

As I stated, I think Alien Wars should have been split up into a complete mini-sourcebook for each era of the war. In turn, each mini-sourcebook should have had the history from that time period, organization development, important NPCs, equipment and vehicle write-ups, Xenovore intel and the GMs' Vault. It would have made a larger book, but it would have been so much more useful for referencing purposes.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I think NOT engineering Xenovores would be a stretch for them. The Slug talisman sounds nasty. Reminds me of a Robert Bloch story about an anthropologist that transforms into the creature he is studying' date=' just by handling the bones.[/quote']

 

That's actually very similar to the origin of the Slug; archaelogist who enters the chamber where the Elder Worms hid themselves, and is possessed and transfigured by the mind and spirit of the Slug.

 

Artist Andrew Cremeans illustrated the action of the Talisman of the Elder Worm in Champions Universe. He has that illustration in his art gallery on his personal website. To see the full image, click on the thumbnail at the left of the page; it's the last thumbnail on the right, third row from the top.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

That's actually very similar to the origin of the Slug; archaelogist who enters the chamber where the Elder Worms hid themselves, and is possessed and transfigured by the mind and spirit of the Slug.

 

Artist Andrew Cremeans illustrated the action of the Talisman of the Elder Worm in Champions Universe. He has that illustration in his art gallery on his personal website. To see the full image, click on the thumbnail at the left of the page; it's the last thumbnail on the right, third row from the top.

Wow, pretty icky. Not sure I like the visual yet. Will have to go back and look at it again another time. I really like Mr. Cremeans stuff. Love the vault getting knocked open pic. Well really, I like most of them. Just not sure that the theme for the Elder Worm is....right for what I'm thinking.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Okay, now that I nitpkicked the whole Xenovore origin story, I have one question; why do the Xenovore stinger attacks take the No Strength Damage limitation? I suppose I'm thinking of the Aliens tail attack that would most assuredly have some strength thrown in there. Since there is no poison sack in the base Xenovore model, I just think that Strength adding to damage is only natural. Any counterpoints for me to think about?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Well, to me the Alien tails appear more whip-like, relatively light and flexible. I don't recall the Aliens exerting much strength through them.

 

BTW, I've heard some folks complain that the Xenovores as written aren't really tough and deadly enough in terms of innate capabilities, to be the combat terrors they're described as. How do you feel about that?

 

FWIW Galactic Champions presents a prototypal "super-Xenovore" discovered in an abandoned laboratory left over from the Alien Wars era. Known as Maraud, it's 667 points of literal combat monster.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I think if you take an average Xenovore vs. an average Human, the Xenovore is going to hand him his backside. The Xenovore were also the weight of numbers kind of enemy. Even in Aliens the bad guys died by the dozens in the face of marine might. That's how I see the Xenovore tactic. Not only that, the basic "genotype" is only one of possibly many.

 

I suppose that I would actually have to play an Alien Wars era game to truly judge combat effectiveness. Here is a return thought, how many conflicts take place in Human-friendly environs? Do the Xenovores, even incidentally, take advantage of the human reliance on tech to keep them safe in harsh - hazardous conditions?

 

EDIT: In regards to the tail, I just remember the Alien Queen Mother seeming to "drive" her tail through Bishop. That implied using strength instead of speed. Of course, my own preconceptions about Xenovore capabilities are all taken from how the Aliens in Alien behaved. This is notion is supported by the excellent illustration of a Xenovore in Terrran Empire, but may well be in error.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

That was the QUEEN, though - it's reasonable that she'd be more powerful, but I recall thinking "Huh... no STR?" when I read it as well. Not the end of the world, but I think what it models is the speed/needle penetration factor, rather than physically beating them with their tails. It's a delivery system, not a hand to hand weapon. You can always flip it if bugs you.

 

From what I recall from reading, there were multiple conflicts which occured in Terran occupied zones; multiple colonies that just got wiped out by Xenovore hunger squads. The thing I found most interesting in the text was how the wheels of the assault came off during the political manuevering (which I won't detail the nature of, obviously, as I said, we won, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who could be playing).

 

For me and my part, I'd be far more interested in telling it as a WAR STORY, instead of a politically driven one. Closer to a Star Ship Troopers that doesn't suck - closer to Roughnecks, as it were. I did appreciate that some effort went into defining the look & feel of it but agreed; even with a minimal operating budget for art, it'd be nice to see full spec drawings of the various star ships.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

The Xenovores must have eaten my inital attempt at responding to this post, 'cause I ain't seen it nowheres.

 

That was the QUEEN' date=' though - it's reasonable that she'd be more powerful, but I recall thinking "Huh... no STR?" when I read it as well. Not the end of the world, but I think what it models is the speed/needle penetration factor, rather than physically beating them with their tails. It's a delivery system, not a hand to hand weapon. You can always flip it if bugs you.[/quote']I figure the Alien drones would also use strength, but at a smaller scale. I do see that I am starting to get ultra-critical about the AW content, and that's really not fair, considering there are some really good things about the book. For example, when I first saw the illustration of the combat soldier loadout, I immediately associated that with Soldier (Kurt Russel); one of my all-time favorite movies. Plus the description of the layered clothing over the insulated body suit was cool.

 

For me and my part, I'd be far more interested in telling it as a WAR STORY, instead of a politically driven one. Closer to a Star Ship Troopers that doesn't suck - closer to Roughnecks, as it were. I did appreciate that some effort went into defining the look & feel of it but agreed; even with a minimal operating budget for art, it'd be nice to see full spec drawings of the various star ships.

I think the actual scenarios a GM would present would probably be more focused on the battlefield feel. Perhaps, if it were a long-term campaign, the focus would gradually shift towards dealing with the upper echelon "command" and then eventually into the ploitical arena.

 

So, what would you change to make the presentation of the setting more to your ideal?

[Curufea]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I've always been inclined to think (possibly because I'm a fan) that the Aliens had the potential to be at least as intelligent as humans. In all cases shown in the movies, the creatures are newborns with no culture or society. In the movie where they have spent the most time alive (Aliens) they spent their time in hibernation - however it was also shown in that movie that they are fast learners (cutting power, flank attack).

I think it would be nicely comedic if, after several generations, they would obtain culture and civilisation - wear clothing, and behave in a very polite manner. The initial "kill everything" mode is a primitive stage for colonising only. They have all the aspects of a bioweapon and presumably if they were (all we know for sure is another race was transporting them), they may have a second, non-combat stage after a world has been pacified.

 

Also, on the tail note - in Alien it is implied that a human being can be lifted with it (as happens to Yaphet Kotto's character). In Aliens the queen lifts an android with it (Bishop). In Alien 3 the tail is used to lift both the Alien and the prison administrator out of the cafeteria. In Aliens Vs Predator an Alien lifts a Predator with her tail.