PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

In the real world, wandering monsters are a real problem that peasants have to be able to deal with. Examples:

 

Wolves, foxes, and big cats poach livestock.

Elephants trample crops.

Bears, raccoons, and deer raid gardens and orchards.

 

Even when hunting is restricted, peasants will circumvent the law to protect their food supplies. In Africa, farmers sometime run afoul of laws protecting elephants. And in the U.S., gardeners sometimes discreetly kill raccoons, contrary to state wildlife laws. Ranchers around Yellowstone often complain about wolves and grizzly bears, but they can't do much about it under the close scrutiny of federal officials.

 

And in the real world peasants often made up the bulk of the infantry. In England during the Hundred Years' War, all able-bodied men were required to practice archery every Sunday.

 

It's an odd world you live in if you regard animals as monsters.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

It's an odd world you live in if you regard animals as monsters.

 

I think the point was that meandering wildlife that intrudes on the property of farmers and villages, etc, isn't particularly farfetched. Fantasy wildlife simply tends to breathe more fire and be more aggressive.

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Therefore there is an arms race.

Walls to keep out wolves = Wards to keep out magical wolves

Herding of cows to stop predation = Magical slipping powers to stop them being carried off by dragons

Shepherds to tend to sheep = Superheroes to attend to sheep.

 

You seem to be missing the point of wandering monsters however - as they are generally random, with no cause or affect other than to trouble PCs. If you fit them into the ecology (rather than having them random), then naturally the ecology will adapt to fit them. For every magical power and attack, a magical defense should develop. Most fantasy settings have civilisation lasting 10 times longer or more than in the real world - surely they would adapt?

[Roland]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Of course wandering monsters fit the ecology. But the PCs wouldn't know this if they are just passing through.

 

Not all real-world wandering monsters are animals. There are also bandits, raiders, and pirates, which, from the victims' PoV, are not much different from orcs.

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Yet more racial stereotyping. Where's the Orc Liberation Front?

;-p

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Yet more racial stereotyping. Where's the Orc Liberation Front?

;-p

 

I know someone who painted up a Warhammer Fantasy minis army in pink and lavender and called them GOLF (Gay Orc Liberation Front). Does that count?

 

I agree that racial stereotyping sucks, which is one reason why I tend to play oddball races whenever feasible, as I grow very, VERY tired of being old I'm 'not playing my (elf/dwarf/halfling/gnome) right' if I give him a non-clone personality.

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Yeah - Where's the Elven Brickie, the Dwarf Hair Stylist, the Hobbit Warrior and the Kobold Paladin?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Yeah - Where's the Elven Brickie' date=' the Dwarf Hair Stylist, the Hobbit Warrior and the Kobold Paladin?[/quote']

 

Done it, haven't done it, done it with halflings not hobbits, done it.

[Lucius]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

It's worth pointing out that an average peasant probably does a lot of work that is not strictly agricultural.

 

Sure, there are "down times" in the agricultural year. That's when you're making/sharpening tools, repairing fences, making clothes, maintaining your house and maybe other buildings....and not necessarily just your own work, but the fuedal lord may need labor to build a bridge, repair a road, put up a wall around the keep so you all have someplace to retreat to in time of war....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is mulling it over

[keithcurtis]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

This depends on the period and the skill of the peasants. Building a defensive wall is most likely masons (guild-based in some times and places)

 

Keith "Hire the Incompetent" Curtis

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I don't think peasants had keeps either

Although I suppose a knight or lord with a keep could employ peasants to help with the construction.

 

Certain some peasants would have skills in fencing - otherwise the sheep and cows would wander off. Gotta keep those fields separate. Land demarkation was very important and a major cause of disputes.

 

Again, I recommend Harn. One of the only fantasy roleplaying games that is based on research rather than whimsy and movies.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Again' date=' I recommend Harn. One of the only fantasy roleplaying games that is based on research rather than whimsy and movies.[/quote']

 

Well, this assumes you want realism rather than fantasy, and gritty rather than cinematic. I prefer fantastic and cinematic.

[garou]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Yet more racial stereotyping. Where's the Orc Liberation Front?

;-p

The OLF became largely defunct on MKRealms after the founder lost his warlord status for telling a certain game company that their policies were foolish and alienating the customer base - and offered suggestions on how to successfully run large events.

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Well' date=' this assumes you want realism rather than fantasy, and gritty rather than cinematic. I prefer fantastic and cinematic. [/quote']

Which is fine - however you're not one of these posters that comes up with frequent questions on this forum in regard to realism.

It happens so often that I see it as encouraging that folk want to get rid of misinformation and game from a base of knowledge rather than ignorance.

Even if the game they run is more pulp, rubber or fantasy - at least they will know why things were and what they need to do to get away with it

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

why things were

 

It's actually this particular line that I construe as the problem. 'why things were' implies that the game is intended to be historically accurate as it pertains to the real world, which is not possible when you have magic, elves, orcs, and whatnot. Harn isn't Earth, so there's no reason that everything in Harn would progress even remotely as it did on Earth.

 

A 'realistic' game world doesn't need to mimic Dark Ages Earth. It merely needs to be internally consistent with its own history, physics, and all that rot. Unless the game actually takes place on Earth, 'why things were' seems singularly irrelevant to me.

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

It's actually this particular line that I construe as the problem. 'why things were' implies that the game is intended to be historically accurate as it pertains to the real world, which is not possible when you have magic, elves, orcs, and whatnot. Harn isn't Earth, so there's no reason that everything in Harn would progress even remotely as it did on Earth.

 

A 'realistic' game world doesn't need to mimic Dark Ages Earth. It merely needs to be internally consistent with its own history, physics, and all that rot. Unless the game actually takes place on Earth, 'why things were' seems singularly irrelevant to me.

Because when people use stereotypical fantasy settings - they never think about the workings.

As soon as you get players with the least bit of creativity, they will find an imaginative way of doing something, or a particular question, that you will not be able to answer because it wasn't written up, and you never thought about it.

Because history was a working system, and fiction never was.

It takes a lot of effort to make fiction work, and it is easier and quicker to model it on history.

 

If you actually do create a working fictional world that covers all areas that a player would ever question - then I commend you. You're probably the exception above the 98% of fantasy GMs out there.

 

That being said - it only applies to non-pulp, non-melodramatic, non-space opera games. Games which are dealing with continuity. If you don't care about continuity, it isn't a problem.

[Lucius]

Clarification

 

Just a clarification:

 

I never said a peasant would have a keep, that is, not as being his own personally. I meant that the entire local community might be expected to put in some work building or maintaining defenses for their LORD'S keep, assuming a fuedal social structure.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

KS: Palindromedary

[Curufea]

Re: Clarification

 

Just a clarification:

 

I never said a peasant would have a keep, that is, not as being his own personally. I meant that the entire local community might be expected to put in some work building or maintaining defenses for their LORD'S keep, assuming a fuedal social structure.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

KS: Palindromedary

Yeah, sorry about that.

There were far more community projects and things (festivals etc) in those days.

[keithcurtis]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I am not familiar with Hârn. If it is closely modeled on earth historical cultures, technology and so forth, how does it reconcile that with the existence of monsters, magic and non-human intelligent species? Or does it even have any of these?

I like worlds that have creative approaches to these problems.

 

Keith "Hârn ignorant" Curtis

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I am not familiar with Hârn. If it is closely modeled on earth historical cultures, technology and so forth, how does it reconcile that with the existence of monsters, magic and non-human intelligent species? Or does it even have any of these?

I like worlds that have creative approaches to these problems.

It mainly deals with it by having the elf-equivalent and drawf-equivlaents pretty much keeping to themselves and not interacting with the human world all that often.

 

Not the ideal solution, but with Hârn's emphasis on the low end of both the power scale and the social scale (the rulers of the lands are described lightly, but it is presumed that the PCs will never become invoplved with them directly, or in anything remotely approaching epic, world-shaking events) it is highly unliklely that a PC in a typical adventuring profession will wander the length and breath of the island anyway (and Hârn is a very small part of a much larger world that most PCs will never even hear about, much less interact with, in a halfway-standard campaign).

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I don't think there has been an equivalent setting yet for high fantasy. Harn was not only well researched, but extensively studied by contributers. Unfortunately it is Dark Ages, and low fantasy.

 

I would like to see a fully detailed setting for high fantasy - one that addresses all the issues of day-to-day life, economy, ecology and so forth. I haven't seen it yet.

[LoresLost]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I am not familiar with Hârn. If it is closely modeled on earth historical cultures, technology and so forth, how does it reconcile that with the existence of monsters, magic and non-human intelligent species? Or does it even have any of these?

I like worlds that have creative approaches to these problems.

 

Keith "Hârn ignorant" Curtis

 

I have not looked at HȃrnWorld in ages (In the mid eighties) but I remember it being based primarily on old English culturally with a late medieval economy. Few monsters, elves or dwarves and they all keep to themselves. The biggest issue for the average Hȃrnian was the Hȃrn world equivalent to Vikings/Norsemen.

 

Here is the link to the present maintainers design decisions http://www.columbiagames.com/HarnPage/Generalintroduction/Robinharnintro.html

 

Also looking around their site they have a few free pdf items (calanders mainly) for Harn.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I don't think there has been an equivalent setting yet for high fantasy. Harn was not only well researched, but extensively studied by contributers. Unfortunately it is Dark Ages, and low fantasy.

 

I would like to see a fully detailed setting for high fantasy - one that addresses all the issues of day-to-day life, economy, ecology and so forth. I haven't seen it yet.

That is probably because Harn was designed with logical consistency as a primar consideration, even at the expense of avdneutirng possibilities. Logical consistency is a concept that utterly defies many of the assumptions of High Fantasy; because most High Fantasy settings in literature are metaphors for larger concepts, and most High Fantasy settings in gaming are designed to justify the presence of as many different monsters and as much different magic as possible regardless of the consequences, the result does nto usually make sense as a world where people could reasonably live.

[Curufea]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

I have not looked at HȃrnWorld in ages (In the mid eighties) but I remember it being based primarily on old English culturally with a late medieval economy. Few monsters, elves or dwarves and they all keep to themselves. The biggest issue for the average Hȃrnian was the Hȃrn world equivalent to Vikings/Norsemen.

 

Here is the link to the present maintainers design decisions http://www.columbiagames.com/HarnPage/Generalintroduction/Robinharnintro.html

 

Also looking around their site they have a few free pdf items (calanders mainly) for Harn.

 

A better Harn site with more content is here-

http://www.lythia.com/

[Kabluey]

Re: PS: Farmer in a Fantasy Campaign

 

Speaking as a Harn GM, I would like to take some issue with the use of the phrase "low fantasy". While I think it is essentially correct, I think it may give the wrong impression that there is less opportunity for adventure than most other worlds. This is certainly not the case. Want to explore ancient ruins filled with powerful magic? There are Earthmaster sites throughout Harn (Earthmasters were an ancient, very powerful and mysterious race predating any of the current cultures on Harn). Want to fight monsters? There's a god, Ilvir, who lives on Harn and gets his rocks off by creating new monsters and letting them loose in the world. Want to travel to other dimensions? There are Godstones, portals created by the Earthmasters that can transport beings to any number of locations (and even sometimes bring them to Harn, thus another source of monsters and such). Pretty much any trope of the fantasy genre you can think of has its place in Harn (and Harn is really only a small corner of a much larger world). Players can interact with the wildly fantastic and magical all you want. It's just that the wildly fantastic and magical can't be found on every street corner as in most "High Fantasy" worlds. You're not likely to see a flock of griffins mounted by warriors serving as the local kingdom's air force, but there's no reason you can't have a griffin being ridden by a mad mage. Just because your average peasant doesn't encounter magic and monsters doesn't mean that your players don't.

 

I'm not saying that Harn is for everyone. I'm just saying that equating low fantasy with low adventure is a big mistake.