Can you drain - Life support?

[azato]

It seems logical.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

You can drain anything, but draining LS is very much in the realm of DMO. For example, can you drain an Amphibians ability to breathe underwater? Probably, if the Drain is built correctly (an asphyxiating toxin, for example). However, the LS's are so cheap, I (personally) would need a strong argument before I allowed a Drain. However, my understanding of Hero (imperfect at it may be) is that a Drain can Drain anything - including another Drain. Wacky.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

It seems logical.

 

I would say no. Not as "Drain Life Support". Unless it was some major "I arrest all metabolic processes and watch you die" power.

 

On the other hand, as Thia Halmades pointed out, you could have a Drain attack which drains specific types of LS. Or a Drain All Magic and have it drain the Life Support which was bought through a Magic Ring.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Subrule - I would also rule Life Support as a class of Defensive Powers, so their cost would be doubled for DRAIN purposes.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Subrule - I would also rule Life Support as a class of Defensive Powers' date=' so their cost would be doubled for DRAIN purposes.[/quote']

 

I would also agree.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

File me as 'technically legal, but I'll be damned if I can come up with a logical special effect that covers it'.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

I was even reaching with my opening example. I agree with CC 100% here - I can ARGUE it, and probably cough up a reasonable explanation for it... but it would be a royal PIA, and have an extremely limited effect, for which you wouldn't get points, since that's how the power was built in the first place. i.e., "Drain Appropriate Life Support" doesn't get a lim because the target is so small - it's just... a wacky drain.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

I was even reaching with my opening example. I agree with CC 100% here - I can ARGUE it' date=' and probably cough up a reasonable explanation for it... but it would be a royal PIA, and have an extremely limited effect, for which you wouldn't get points, since that's how the power was built in the first place. i.e., "Drain Appropriate Life Support" doesn't get a lim because the target is so small - it's just... a wacky drain.[/quote']

 

Yeah ... the best I can come up with is targetting Life Support with a 'affects any (X) power' Drain, whether it be Mutant powers, Magical powers, or Technological/Device powers ...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

So... gah. You know, we're on the same page, and it's thus possible we're getting the same headache.

 

LS: Immunity to Toxins, SFX: Heavy Blood - I originally come from a 4G world. My primary powers are DI, Growth, and a boat load of armor & LS material. My metabolism is far stronger, so even in heavy doses, my body effectively ignores incoming toxins & other foreign agents.

 

Drain: Alien Life Support...? Wha...? It's worsened by the fact that it's a reasonable 4-color power to have.

 

Okay, CC. I've given you the character. As a litmus test, without just building the power, what would you, the player, sell me, the DM, as the reason you bought Drain LS: Immunity to Toxins as a power?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

So... gah. You know, we're on the same page, and it's thus possible we're getting the same headache.

 

LS: Immunity to Toxins, SFX: Heavy Blood - I originally come from a 4G world. My primary powers are DI, Growth, and a boat load of armor & LS material. My metabolism is far stronger, so even in heavy doses, my body effectively ignores incoming toxins & other foreign agents.

 

Drain: Alien Life Support...? Wha...? It's worsened by the fact that it's a reasonable 4-color power to have.

 

Okay, CC. I've given you the character. As a litmus test, without just building the power, what would you, the player, sell me, the DM, as the reason you bought Drain LS: Immunity to Toxins as a power?

 

(Side Note: Were I that Alien, my LS would probably be Inherent, rendering the question moot.)

 

If it's just straight 'Drain Life Support', well, I can't.

If I'm permitted 'Drain any 1 Alien power one at a time', it'd probably operate on the basic principle of a limited genetic rewrite that alters only the specific DNA strands that grant that immunity (and, in comic-book fashion, operate impossibly swiftly and can reverse itself later). Pure pseudoscience, but if you're dealing with alien lifeforms, you're in technobabble-land anyways.

[tesuji]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

drain life support? sure.

 

cast your drain magic against the mage's water breathing spell.

or his ring of fire resistance.

 

if your LS is part of you and cannot be turned off, the buy it inherent to reflect that.

[CBikle]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

File me as 'technically legal' date=' but I'll be damned if I can come up with a logical special effect that covers it'.[/quote']

 

Right. Really, it looks more like a PC build than a GM one (unless the GM is trying to put a hurting on a PC.)

 

Imagine getting hit with something like this if you're in outer space ?

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

It sort of makes sense as (say) a curse of normalcy - a killing spell that temporarirly transforms the target such that they can only survive what a normal person could.

 

Anywho. This is why I think most Life Support should be inherent (unless, of course, it isn't).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Right. Turn off all mutant powers and traits, ala XM3.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

drain life support? sure.

 

cast your drain magic against the mage's water breathing spell.

or his ring of fire resistance.

 

if your LS is part of you and cannot be turned off, the buy it inherent to reflect that.

 

Absolutely correct under the rules. I'm also pretty certain Aquaman and Namor have both had their "super-powers" drained or suppressed at one time or another, resulting in an inability to breathe water.

 

With that in mind, however, why can't a normal person have his LS: Oxygen/Nitrogen Atmosphere "power" drained or suppressed?

[OddHat]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Absolutely correct under the rules. I'm also pretty certain Aquaman and Namor have both had their "super-powers" drained or suppressed at one time or another, resulting in an inability to breathe water.

 

With that in mind, however, why can't a normal person have his LS: Oxygen/Nitrogen Atmosphere "power" drained or suppressed?

 

I'd rule that your default life supports (breathes air, lives as long as a normal human, immun to diseases that don't infect humans, etc), like your senses and limbs, are inherent.

 

In Namor or Aquaman's case, from a HERO point of view, they default to air breathing human (both are half human IIRC, and from human derived races). Breath Water is their non-inherent Life Support. Their inherent Life Support is Breath Air.

[Lucius]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Absolutely correct under the rules. I'm also pretty certain Aquaman and Namor have both had their "super-powers" drained or suppressed at one time or another, resulting in an inability to breathe water.

 

With that in mind, however, why can't a normal person have his LS: Oxygen/Nitrogen Atmosphere "power" drained or suppressed?

 

Because it's inherent.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

With a Persistant Inherent Always On Palindromedary

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

INHERENT. That's the thing I was looking for that kept throwing me off. RepeR to the palindromedary.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

I'd rule that your default life supports (breathes air' date=' lives as long as a normal human, immun to diseases that don't infect humans, etc), like your senses and limbs, are inherent.[/quote']

 

The same issue arises with those abilities. Why are these "life supports" and "senses" inherent, but the basic human stats, running, etc. are not inherent?

 

Curiosity question: have any fish in the Bestiary purchased Inherent on their ability to breathe water?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

I would in fact assume that a fish has inherent LS: underwater, but also phys lim: can't breath in an atmosphere. And if it isn't built that way, common sense rules say it should've been.

[tesuji]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Curiosity question: have any fish in the Bestiary purchased Inherent on their ability to breathe water?

 

The fish in the bestiary fo not have LS purchased at all. The assumption seems to be that their breathe in water simply replaces the normal default of breathe in air.

 

I would assume it is inherent.

 

BTW, IIRc in Marvelk universe Namor is considered a mutant, so his water breathing might be drainable on that notion. However, i also seem to recall some trip thru a giant anti-mutant sludge monster so he might not be mutant any more. This is very dim recollection about the anti-mutie thing.

[OddHat]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

The same issue arises with those abilities. Why are these "life supports" and "senses" inherent' date=' but the basic human stats, running, etc. are not inherent? [/quote']

 

Probably because Drain (Stat Name Here) is fairly well balanced under the current rules, where as Drain Ability To Breath Oxygen or Drain Sight would be overly effective for their price.

 

Curiosity question: have any fish in the Bestiary purchased Inherent on their ability to breathe water?

They don't need a life support power. They just trade "Breathes Air" for "Breathes Water."

[Manic Typist]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Still, wouldn't it be a perfect way to represent some hacker causing a ship or a sealed base to vent all its air and kill the inhabitants?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Still' date=' wouldn't it be a perfect way to represent some hacker causing a ship or a sealed base to vent all its air and kill the inhabitants?[/quote']

Yes. And in fact that can be done. You don't Drain the LS of the passengers; you Drain the LS the ship or base is providing the passengers. Presumably the Vehicle/Base's LS does not have Inherent.

 

EDIT: Oh. Maybe you meant a ship/base that exists in a normal atmosphere. In that case I'd say you buy it as a huge Change Environment or an Area of Effect NND attack or something.

[gojira]

Re: Can you drain - Life support?

 

Yeah good one Manic. I was about to give a similar example.

 

Imagine a Battlesuit or space ship with Life Support. Then imagine you have some weird alien device that drains power. No power = no life support.

 

Another special effect: hull breach. Just shoot a rail gun at it, they'll lose life support in a hurry.