How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

[MPT]

I know how to build weapons with +OCV (5pt Skill Levels), but how do you build/cost a weapon which has a -OCV modifier?

 

I am certain that there is an easy answer to this so I just need pointing at the correct book (as I have most of them).

[Darkness]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

Fantasy HERO (p.177) recommends using Side Effect.

[MPT]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

Fantasy HERO (p.177) recommends using Side Effect.

 

That was the only thing that I could think of ... but discarded it as the minimum Side effect value is 15pts which would convert to -3 OCV. However as I have Fantasy HERO I will check it out. Thanks for the quick response.

[Alibear]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

I don't see the problem with -1ocv = -5 active points. What am I missing?

[mattingly]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

I've sometimes used a variation on Concentration which halves or zeroes DCV, called Inaccurate which halves (-1/4) or zeroes (-1/2) OCV.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

I don't see the problem with -1ocv = -5 active points. What am I missing?

Normally Subtractors aren't used. For that concept we stick to Limitations.

 

For Side Effect the GM is completely within rights to ignore the "15 Points" issue and use what they feel is appropriate.

 

Or a custom Limitation of Innacurate, either as Mattingly put forth - which is good but probably not the granualarity you're looking for - or something else. Say -1 OCV for every -1/4 Limitation. Play with the numbers to see what works in your game.

[Edsel]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

Severl of the Dark Champions guns are built with Side Effect, minor, Effect occurs automatically whenever power is used (-1/2) to represent a -OCV modifier. Even a trivial -1 OCV is built with this (-1/2) modifier.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

I apply an Equipment Disadvantage that works like a Character Disadvantage: it applies to the weapon after the Real Costs of all powers bought through it. The points subtracted from the cost of the weapon cannot drop it below an overall Real Cost of 1.

 

The value of each Equipment Disadvantage is equal to the value of the Skills or Powers the character needs to purchase to counter it. This would, for example, mean only a 2-point Negative CSL if the weapon is simply difficult to wield (since the character could use other weapons and attacks without penalty, and a 2-point CSL gives a +1 OCV with a particular kind of weapon), unless it was some kind of curse that truly penalized all HTH attacks made by the character (including with his other weapon, barehanded, etc.). In that case it might be a 5-point Negative CSL (possibly reduced in cost by a Limitation to make it OCV only), or it might be a 3-point Negative PSL if he can counteract it with normal PSLs.

[Gary]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

If it were equipment, I would cost it at -5 pts for -1 OCV and -3 pts for -1 to Range modifiers, and such reductions can't lower the cost of the weapon by more than half. So a 1d6 RKA with -1 OCV would cost 10 pts before limitations, and 1d6 RKA with -2 OCV would cost 7 pts before limitations.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

If it were equipment' date=' I would cost it at -5 pts for -1 OCV and -3 pts for -1 to Range modifiers, and such reductions can't lower the cost of the weapon by more than half. So a 1d6 RKA with -1 OCV would cost 10 pts before limitations, and 1d6 RKA with -2 OCV would cost 7 pts before limitations.[/quote']

So a character can get free points? Just reduce the cost of the weapon at a rate of 5 points per -1 OCV, and then buy 2-point CSLs for each +1 OCV to make up the difference? That doesn't make much sense to me. Here's some free Character Points!

[Gary]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

So a character can get free points? Just reduce the cost of the weapon at a rate of 5 points per -1 OCV' date=' and then buy 2-point CSLs for each +1 OCV to make up the difference? That doesn't make much sense to me. Here's some free Character Points![/quote']

 

 

Those -OCV points are reduced by OIF or OAF as well. So it's only -3.3 or -2.5 pts each. And that's assuming there's no other limitations. Plus the 2 pt OCV levels that the character is purchasing are effectively OIF or OAF as well since they get taken away when the weapon is taken away.

 

It should also be pretty obvious to the GM if the character takes -6 OCV on the weapon and buys +6 OCV personally.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

And if you want to ignore negative skill levels and take book-legal nitpicking to its ridiculous extreme, you can have your 15 point Side Effect of -3 OCV and then buy +2 OCV to bring it back up to -1.

 

Keep it simple, silly! +1 OCV is the opposite of -1 OCV.

[pinecone]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

In the past I've had no problems with -1 OCV saving 3 points (one negative level, either HTH ot Ranged; for OCV only)...I just won't tolerate someone abusing it as why would anyone build, let alone use a weapon that was so lousey?......let alone specialize in it (buying levels w/OCV..) so I never see more than one or two minus' to OCV on a weapon...and then only in Heroic level games....

[MPT]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

I don't see the problem with -1ocv = -5 active points. What am I missing?

 

It was the lack of granualarity of Side Effect which made me ask the original question - having the same limitation for -1 OCV (5 active points) as -3 OCV (15 active points) seemed out of place given the more precise nature of most of the rules.

 

If it were equipment, I would cost it at -5 pts for -1 OCV and -3 pts for -1 to Range modifiers ...

 

It is interesting that many of you go along the lines of subracting the cost of OCV from the equipment's cost. This is the way that I originally thought of but just as the system bans Disadvantages as simply being the negative cost of a positive power (especially re Senses), I assumed that a similar restriction existed against skills.

 

I realise that all the rules are mutable (I suspect we all have house rules) but an 'official' rulinng is always useful - even if you disagree with it.

 

---

 

Since asking my original question I have been pointed to 'The Ultimate Martial Artist' as Maneuvers can have -OCV. As an element these cost only -1 point per -1 OCV (as opposed to the 3-5 points in the above pots) but as the maneuver must cost a minimuum of 3pts this would be -3 OCV - so the problem is still not solved for weapons with -1 and -2 OCV.

 

As these are weapons which I am creating (as opposed to the players), I think I may go for a straight -2 per -1 OCV (the standard cost of a +1 OCV) and ignore the fact that the negative is due to a focus.

[LoresLost]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

In the past I've had no problems with -1 OCV saving 3 points (one negative level' date=' either HTH ot Ranged; for OCV only)...I just won't tolerate someone abusing it as why would anyone build, let alone use a weapon that was so lousey?......let alone specialize in it (buying levels w/OCV..) so I never see more than one or two minus' to OCV on a weapon...and then only in Heroic level games....[/quote']

 

A Ceremonial Weapon comes to mind, Something that is not actually meant for combat, having some other purpose, usually to look like something terrible ('war axes' and swords designed to be hung on a wall come to mind in the real world) But either has to be used or has come in to use beyond the ceremony or tradtion orgially intended for it.

[pinecone]

Re: How Do I: Weapons with -OCV

 

That seems a fair point...but having said its only a cerimonial weapon, there is no way I'd go for +4 OCV with that weapon, so if you build it, it will s**k..