"I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Actually, if you have BOECV, I don't think you really need to buy ranged. I'm pretty sure it gets the standard mental "LOS" range (also means no range mods).

 

Also, I don't think you need to buy "indirect" either. I think it becomes semi-indirect by default.

 

Now you might be able to get Position Shift.

 

Nothing makes mental powers Indirect by default. And I would require you buy Ranged. BOECV converts your range to LOS, but does not make a non-ranged power ranged. If it was not ranged, I'd allow you the +3/4 version of BOECV, since you're effectively keeping normal range modifiers for the power.

[megaplayboy]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

10" TP, Usable as Attack, ranged, indirect(+1/2), Area Effect-accurate, only vs. small(10kg or less) accessible foci(-1/2), 70 active points, 47 real cost, 7 END to use.

 

That power allows the teleporter to shift a weapon or small focus up to 10" away from its bearer. It costs a lot of active points, but is very accurate and incredibly useful in certain situations. Changing AE-accurate to Radius-Selective(to disarm a whole group of agents, for example) would up the active points to 85, and the real cost to about 56.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

*cough* hmm.. yes' date=' well... see, I couldn't wrap my head around the teleporter guy needing to have a high dex to teleport stuff... seemed much more like he could just look at something and move it... so umm.. yeah, he's giving all his offensive uses of TP BOECV.[/quote']

I agree with others that BOECV only complicates matters. Just buy him enough CSLs and PSLs to make up the difference between his OCV and his ECV, and write the rest off as sfx. Probably cheaper than buying BOECV for all his powers anyway.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Nothing makes mental powers Indirect by default.

 

Well, they sort of are. Any attack BOECV will normally bypass Force Wall.

 

And I would require you buy Ranged. BOECV converts your range to LOS' date=' but does not make a non-ranged power ranged. If it was not ranged, I'd allow you the +3/4 version of BOECV, since you're effectively keeping normal range modifiers for the power.[/quote']

 

That's OK, but I think that's a house-rule. I believe that buying BOECV automatically provides the "LOS" range deal.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

5ER, p253

[bOECV Powers] suffer no Range Modifier and work on Line Of Sight if they're Ranged (BOECV does not automatically make a non-Ranged power Ranged). If a BOECV power is subject to a normal Range Modifier, the Advantage is worth 1/4 less."

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

5ER' date=' p253[/quote']

 

Whoops ! I stand corrected.

 

Is that same wording in 5E ?

[bigdamnhero]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Whoops ! I stand corrected.

 

Is that same wording in 5E ?

[Quick run to the bookshelf] Yup, basically verbatim.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

[Quick run to the bookshelf] Yup' date=' basically verbatim. [/quote']

 

Does it also say it in 4th edition and Fuzion ?

 

 

 

Just kidding.

 

Thanks (this means I need to change a few things in a VPP).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Well' date=' they sort of are. Any attack BOECV will [i']normally[/i] bypass Force Wall.

 

Not a Force Wall with Mental Defense. And any EB will bypass a Force Wall that has only Mental Defense. It's not an indirect attack, the Force Wall lacks the defense to stop it.

[The Souljourner]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Further:

 

The attack won't work on robots, aliens, etc. unless you buy the expanded classes of minds advantages to ego attacks.

 

You sure you want to buy BOECV on this attack ?

 

It kind of complicates things...

 

I don't have my book with me so I can't check, but I didn't think BOECV required choosing a class of mind. Am I wrong? If I am, how do BOECV things work on things without minds?

 

-Nate

[prestidigitator]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I don't think you could attack a Focus with a BOECV attack. They are probably more immune to this than an Automaton would be, in fact. If you want to do something like that, give it Advantages like Range: LOS, Indirect, and Invisible Power Effects.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I don't have my book with me so I can't check, but I didn't think BOECV required choosing a class of mind. Am I wrong? If I am, how do BOECV things work on things without minds?

 

-Nate

 

I think I already quoted the rule in this thread. BoECV does not subject a power to the Classes of Mind rules.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Does it also say it in 4th edition and Fuzion ?

 

 

 

Just kidding.

[back to the bookshelf]4th Edition - yes. (Not verbatim, and not expressed quite so clearly.)

Fusion - no clue. Never went down that road

 

 

Thanks (this means I need to change a few things in a VPP).

Sorry to create more work for you.

 

I don't have my book with me so I can't check' date=' but I didn't think BOECV required choosing a class of mind. Am I wrong? If I am, how do BOECV things work on things without minds?[/quote']

5ER, p253 (again) - "BOECV powers aren't subject to the "classes of minds" rules (unless the GM rules otherwise)."

 

Looks like I picked a good day to work from home.

 

[Edit - didn't see Hugh had already answered that last part - thanks.]

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

5ER, p253 (again) - "BOECV powers aren't subject to the "classes of minds" rules (unless the GM rules otherwise)."

 

That's interesting and more than a little puzzling. I wonder what the thought was behind that ?

 

I've just made so many mistakes today, it's not even funny.

 

Oh well, I'm needed back at the reactor.

[prestidigitator]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

It doesn't matter Foci don't have minds at all, or could be considered not to. Even if the GM might allow a Computer or Automaton to be affected by BoECV powers, most Foci probably won't be unless maybe they have machine SFX. Using a BoECV power to affect a Focus in general just doesn't work IMO.

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

*cough* hmm.. yes, well... see, I couldn't wrap my head around the teleporter guy needing to have a high dex to teleport stuff... seemed much more like he could just look at something and move it... so umm.. yeah, he's giving all his offensive uses of TP BOECV. Now granted, this increases the cost even more... here's my build:

 

Teleportation 10", Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1), Based On EGO Combat Value (+1) (75 Active Points)

 

I kinda want position shift too, but that bumps it to 94 points (!).

 

I don't have a problem with it being normally based upon CV instead of ECV. It's normallya physical power, just like TK. Just say they are aiming the 'port beam at the (object of interest). Which is, after all, the way it would work (when bought with Ranged but not BOECV).

 

Why did you add Indirect, and only at the +¼ level?

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I don't think you could attack a Focus with a BOECV attack. They are probably more immune to this than an Automaton would be' date=' in fact. If you want to do something like that, give it Advantages like Range: LOS, Indirect, and Invisible Power Effects.[/quote']

 

I'm pretty sure inanimate objects can be attacked with a BOECV attack that involves physicality in some way. Just look at Psychokinesis on page 231 of 5re. A power that physically transports an object (via a UAA Teleport) would IMO work the same way.

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Not a Force Wall with Mental Defense. And any EB will bypass a Force Wall that has only Mental Defense. It's not an indirect attack' date=' the Force Wall lacks the defense to stop it.[/quote']

 

Even though it does (Stun) damage against PD, Psychokinesis will pass right through a PD Force Wall because of the BOECV advantage.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Even though it does (Stun) damage against PD' date=' Psychokinesis will pass right through a PD Force Wall because of the BOECV advantage.[/quote']

 

psychokinesis is a variant of Telekinesis, which is already indirect. It didn't need BoECV for that.

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

psychokinesis is a variant of Telekinesis' date=' which is already indirect. It didn't need BoECV for that.[/quote']

 

Oops. That's what I get for not thinking it through. How about we just replace TK with EB. I think it will still pass through the PD FW.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Oops. That's what I get for not thinking it through. How about we just replace TK with EB. I think it will still pass through the PD FW.

 

Once it's BoECV, the EB acts vs mental defense, so a PD wall can't stop it. An Ego Defense FW could, though.

[tesuji]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Now if you wanted to actually destroy the Focus rather than just take it away, you can use Dispel for that, but it gets tricky and often expensive since you have to account for all SFX. An easier method is to simply destroy the Focus the old fashioned way, with an EB or RKA or other attack that will damage anything. Just do enough BODY and POOF! the Focus is gone.

 

Which is of greater value, destroying a target's focus or taking away that focus "poof" and using it yourself against them?

 

I agree completely that it might get REAL expensive to remove powerful items "by power" just as the more powerful items are harder to break using rka's, which is why i am pointing to linking the cost of "taking their focus" to the power of the focus, especially once you have removed their characteristic as an opposition by removing the strength maneuver.

 

"I teleport their focus into the ground, destroying it" could be an RKA, and would be expensive. Doing it by dispel would also be expensive, and both are apporopriate.

 

So "i teleport his gun to me so i can use it" shouldn't be a "level of enemy power independent" super-cheap UAA teleport.

 

Heck, if i want a "super-diaarm" why not just buy 1" of teleport UAA NND yahdee yahdee with lims for "only against foci" and spend less than 5 cp?

Sure i gotta be close but, gimme a desolid to abort to and decent timing and viola... one messy situation.

 

taking someone's focus from them is better than just breaking it, in many or most cases. So, it should cost more than destroying it, not less.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Which is of greater value, destroying a target's focus or taking away that focus "poof" and using it yourself against them?

 

I agree completely that it might get REAL expensive to remove powerful items "by power" just as the more powerful items are harder to break using rka's, which is why i am pointing to linking the cost of "taking their focus" to the power of the focus, especially once you have removed their characteristic as an opposition by removing the strength maneuver.

 

"I teleport their focus into the ground, destroying it" could be an RKA, and would be expensive. Doing it by dispel would also be expensive, and both are apporopriate.

 

So "i teleport his gun to me so i can use it" shouldn't be a "level of enemy power independent" super-cheap UAA teleport.

 

Heck, if i want a "super-diaarm" why not just buy 1" of teleport UAA NND yahdee yahdee with lims for "only against foci" and spend less than 5 cp?

Sure i gotta be close but, gimme a desolid to abort to and decent timing and viola... one messy situation.

 

taking someone's focus from them is better than just breaking it, in many or most cases. So, it should cost more than destroying it, not less.

 

1 The focus has to be bought as Universal for someone else to use it.

 

2 There's a standard -3 OCV penalty for trying to use stuff you haven't spent points for.

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Once it's BoECV' date=' the EB acts vs mental defense, so a PD wall can't stop it. An Ego Defense FW could, though.[/quote']

 

"Any BOECV powers that are modified by defenses (such as Energy Blast or Drain) can apply either to their standard defense, or to the character's Mental Defense, at the attacker's option." - 5re, p253.

 

So, a EB+BOECV that still affects PD will pass though a PD Force Wall because it operates on Line-Of-Sight. Unless I'm missing something.

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

So "i teleport his gun to me so i can use it" shouldn't be a "level of enemy power independent" super-cheap UAA teleport.

 

Perhaps, perhaps not. As a GM, you can always apply limits. And there are several reasons why UOO is a Stop Sign advantage. This just illustrates one.

 

Heck, if i want a "super-diaarm" why not just buy 1" of teleport UAA NND yahdee yahdee with lims for "only against foci" and spend less than 5 cp?

Sure i gotta be close but, gimme a desolid to abort to and decent timing and viola... one messy situation.

 

First, You can't get around the UAA "Defenses" by buying NND also. Second, there is always the GM's ability to say "Not just no -- H3ll no".

 

taking someone's focus from them is better than just breaking it' date=' in many or most cases. So, it should cost more than destroying it, not less.[/quote']

 

Taken vs. Destroyed is balanced by the fact that the target can still recover a focus that has been taken but not destroyed. Again, this is where GM's Fiat (or whatever car he drives ) comes into play. He (or she) can head off munchkiny builds like a character with desolidification and a Teleport UAA who tries to be a "collector".

 

Or he can just deny the use of the uber-gun to the character. "I'm sorry, The MazerBlazerPhazerLazer you just 'ported doesn't seem to be working any more." And later, back at the base: "After analyzing the gun, you come to the conclusion that for reasons unknown, it's delicate circuits didn't survive the teleportation process."

 

Or, "You try to use your 'Look at what I found!' power on his uber-gun, but something about it is preventing your power from operating". (I.e., it conveniently has one of the defenses chosen for the UAA advantage.)