Guns as a Multipower?

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

I'm working on a co-created game world that is being developed interactively with my players as they create their characters. The setting is pseudo Rifts/post-apoc and has a lot of free reign as far as character possibilities.

 

One of the things that I am looking at doing is setting up a modified Dark Champions style of Resource Points for equipment and vehicles and such. The basic idea is to have a Group Armoury that is fed with point donations from the players just like a team of supers pitching in for a base.

 

On the same deal I was reading through the Dark Champions book and came across a little sidebar about doing guns as a multipower to represent the different ammo types and though the book suggests that this is cumbersome I think it would work great for this style of group armoury.

 

Now, i'm not overly familiar with anything that isn't fantasy or supers as far as HERO system is concerned so I'm curious as to what you folks think of the idea.

[Rapier]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

It's a fairly normal kind of build. The MP has limitation: Must Change Clips to Change Slots. Even with Fast Draw that's a half-phase action, and a full phase action without.

 

It works pretty well, but you have to make sure to note what ammo they are taking with them when they leave.

 

This can be useful, but I keep finding that the slots are all variations on a theme.

 

- RKA

- Explosive RKA

- AE Hex RKA

- EB (Rubber Bullets)

 

Heck, worst case? Give it a try and maybe it doesn't work out.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. I'm assuming that I would use the fixed slot version of the multipower, correct?

 

Also, I'm wondering how I would work out options/enhancements that they build into the guns themselves, such as tricking them out to be more accurate or building in recoil suppressors, etc. Do I build these as separate constructs and have them linked to the multipower?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Either Link them to the MP or build them as Naked Modifiers that act on the MP Pool's Active Point level.

[Edsel]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

One of the problems I have had with multi-power builds for guns is that not all limitations can be applied to a reserve (this comes from using Hero Designer to build them). As a result you either have to cheat by applying some as custom limitations or you just have swallow the cost since you can't apply as many limitations as you'd like to.

 

An alternative that I have used is to modify the "rule of 5." The rule of 5 states that you can have a duplicate of a piece of equipment, or weapon, for 5 points. In some cases I have allowed a player to buy a second weapon whose active point cost is equal to or less than the original weapon. The SFX of this is not that they actually have a second gun they just have a different ammo load that they can use in the very same weapon.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

One of the problems I have had with multi-power builds for guns is that not all limitations can be applied to a reserve (this comes from using Hero Designer to build them). As a result you either have to cheat by applying some as custom limitations or you just have swallow the cost since you can't apply as many limitations as you'd like to.

 

That's because the Reserve can only take a Limitation that all slots can take. If a Slot cannot legally take a Limitation then the Reserve cannot take it either.

[Rapier]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. I'm assuming that I would use the fixed slot version of the multipower, correct?

 

Also, I'm wondering how I would work out options/enhancements that they build into the guns themselves, such as tricking them out to be more accurate or building in recoil suppressors, etc. Do I build these as separate constructs and have them linked to the multipower?

 

Yep. Go ultra slots. Don't forget to add Beam!

 

Hmmm. Recoil suppressors are only going to be good for AF. AF is on the gun, not on the slot. Accuracy is probably some kind of scope? I'd just build them as levels. +3 PSLs vs AF for MultiGun (or whatever you call it) and +3 PSLs vs Range Penalties for MultiGun. In the description just make it clear these aren't skill related but mechanics:

 

Scope: +3 PSLs vs Range for MultiGun

Exhaust Vents: +3 PSLs vs AF for MultiGun

[mayapuppies]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Just posting stuff to keep it together in my head for this and to get any feedback if I am doing something wrong. I can't get HD to install on my work computer so I'm not doing point costs.

 

Autofire Shotgun (28 Gauge) Multipower (OAF, STR Min: 10, Real Weapon, Mass: Normal, Required Hands: 2, Autofire: 3)

Buckshot: 2d6 RKA (2 Clips of Charges: 12, AoE: 1 Hex, Limited Range: 20", Reduced by Range, Reduced Penetration, Increased STUNx: +1)

Slug: 2d6 RKA (Charges: 12, Limited Range: 50", Increased STUNx: +1, Beam)

 

Autopistol (9mm) Multipower (OAF, STR Min: 10, Real Weapon, Mass: Normal, Required hands: 1, Autofire: 3, Beam, No Knockback)

Standard Round: 1d6+1 RKA (Charges: 15)

Hollowpoint Round: 1.5d6 RKA (Charges: 15, Increased STUNx: +1, Reduced Penetration)

[Rapier]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Just posting stuff to keep it together in my head for this and to get any feedback if I am doing something wrong. I can't get HD to install on my work computer so I'm not doing point costs.

 

Autofire Shotgun (28 Gauge) Multipower (OAF, STR Min: 10, Real Weapon, Mass: Normal, Required Hands: 2, Autofire: 3)

Buckshot: 2d6 RKA (2 Clips of Charges: 12, AoE: 1 Hex, Limited Range: 20", Reduced by Range, Reduced Penetration, Increased STUNx: +1)

Slug: 2d6 RKA (Charges: 12, Limited Range: 50", Increased STUNx: +1, Beam)

 

Autopistol (9mm) Multipower (OAF, STR Min: 10, Real Weapon, Mass: Normal, Required hands: 1, Autofire: 3, Beam, No Knockback)

Standard Round: 1d6+1 RKA (Charges: 15)

Hollowpoint Round: 1.5d6 RKA (Charges: 15, Increased STUNx: +1, Reduced Penetration)

 

I would add a lim, maybe -1/2 that must change clips to change slots. Or perhaps a lim for preset slot usage: shots 1 - 4, 7 - 8, 10 - 12 are Buckshot and 5 - 6 & 9 are slugs. Something along those lines.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Oops, yeah, I forgot about the changing clips limitation. That'll have to be a custom Limitation correct?

[Rapier]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Oops' date=' yeah, I forgot about the changing clips limitation. That'll have to be a custom Limitation correct?[/quote']

 

Yeah. Or you can use the Conditional/Limited/Custom whatever. The important part for me was always the -1/2.

[Robyn]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

I'm working on a co-created game world that is being developed interactively with my players as they create their characters.

 

Extended character creation . . . interesting. Repped.

 

"I'm not going back on the decisions we made during chargen, we're still making the character. This is just us revising things."

 

"Yes, they can apply XP earned during play to their chargen process. People go out and train (to build themselves into the image of who and what they want to be) all the time, and I'm just modelling that."

[ghost-angel]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Oops' date=' yeah, I forgot about the changing clips limitation. That'll have to be a custom Limitation correct?[/quote']

 

I use a variation on Extra Time, but yeah essentially a Limited Power Limitation works.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Extended character creation . . . interesting. Repped.

 

"I'm not going back on the decisions we made during chargen, we're still making the character. This is just us revising things."

 

"Yes, they can apply XP earned during play to their chargen process. People go out and train (to build themselves into the image of who and what they want to be) all the time, and I'm just modelling that."

 

First, thanks for the rep!

 

Second: Thank you for jogging loose a concept that has been stuck in the back of my mind for a long long time and one that I have not been able to put into writing in any discernible fashion.

 

There have been game systems in the past that walked a player through a Lifepath system that added skills/stats based on the choices and dice rolls they made during the Chargen process. This is something that I've always loved but most of the systems have been incredibly modular and limited or downright deadly.

 

I've always wanted to take a look at the Central Casting books for this but they are way out of print and sold on e-bay (if you can find them) for outrageous prices.

 

I'm going to look into starting this project up again. This game may be just the ticket I'm looking for.

[Robyn]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

There have been game systems in the past that walked a player through a Lifepath system that added skills/stats based on the choices and dice rolls they made during the Chargen process.

 

It's interesting how choices are more often accepted calmly by players when they're presented as part of the static history leading up to the campaign. During play, there are strong objections to having dice determine what the character decided to do (or, at least, there have been strong objections to the theory of it occurring, whenever I raise the possibility on these boards ), but I haven't seen any players (during their chargen process) make a fuss when the GM says "Hold on, let me see if your character was able to find a teacher back then." (and rolls some dice) . . . preservation of that state of mind might be vital to playing a campaign where you know what the ultimate outcome will be, just not any of the stuff in between.

 

I could probably call the first phase of my own campaign a "character generation" process, except that the players might then take it less seriously than they would the "actual" game; that first phase is vital for determining what their characters will be able to do and how they will be able to do it.

 

The latter is of the greatest importance; it limits what new powers the characters may acquire, and restricts their usage in everything from "The rifle is activated by pulling the trigger - therefore, you can't opt to use the rifle without having to pull the trigger." to "You can shake off their programming, but first you must enter a trance state and petition your own subconscious mind through a surreal dreamscape, reprogramming yourself on the same level."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber.shtml

[Robyn]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

I've always wanted to take a look at the Central Casting books for this but they are way out of print and sold on e-bay (if you can find them) for outrageous prices.

 

Heroes NOW!

 

Linking Events:

Writing History ...

as it Should Have Happened!

 

Dice tables are wonderful tools for randomly generating

vast quantities of unrelated data. Thumb through this book and

you'll see what I mean. With a shake of the hand and a flick of the

wrist, dice tables can provide quick answers for any question or list

a dozen odd bits of background data. Dice tables are great if you

know how to use them for best effect. Nevertheless, even the best

of them are no substitute for a creative imagination.

Yet the great thing is: dice tables can stimulate your imagina-

tion. Even creative minds tend to slide into ruts. The random dice

rolls help establish links between ideas that you might otherwise

overlook. The dice don't do the thinking for you. Instead, they give

you things to think about.

Without putting the ol' imagination in gear, you can roll dice

forever on Central Casting's™ tables and still remain uninspired

as to how to roleplay your characters. The information is there, but

what you're missing is a way to put it all together, to make a handful

of loose and unrelated chunks of data into living, breathing,

exciting characters.

The end product of a Central Casting background session is

a sheet of raw history data, some in the form of rounded-out events

and much more as just notes about relatives and unrelated

occurrences. In many ways, it's like researching a paper. You can

spend a week at the library reading seemingly endless articles in

a dozen different encyclopedias and magazines and when you're

done, all you have to show for your effort is a tottering stack of

index cards and a three-inch-thick sheaf of notes. Regardless of

the topic, it's not until you start filling in the gaps between the notes

with your own words and ideas that the paper takes on shape and

form. In much the same way, Central Casting gives you a stack of

raw data, the events and influences of a character's hypothetical

life. Yet until you "fill in the gaps" between those events and draw

logical (or even illogical) connections between them, your charac-

ter will not take on true life. The bits and pieces of his history remain

just a pile of notes.

 

The rest is tables, and it goes on for about a hundred pages.

[Rapier]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber.shtml

 

Good god, Man! Is there anything that ISN'T on your eyes-be-damned site?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

There's a reason he's in my sig. Damn KS

[prodigyduck]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

I was in a street-level HERO game with a PC who made a gun-user. Their character had a high-tech gyro-jet revolver that could switch to whatever cylinder she wanted. Each cylinder had a different shot; or she could fill every cylinder with the same shot, depending on what she wanted. I'm pretty sure she wrote it as a Multipower with a number of different charges per clip.

 

As it was not my character, I cannot be sure as the exact write-up. Sorry.

 

However, I am planning my own Rifts-style game. In it, some of the energy weapons have variable settings. For instance, laser rifles can have a single-shot attack (standard AP RKA), and rapid-fire setting (include Autofire). If the rifle has an underslung grenade launcher, I add an Explosive EB to the Multipower. And don't forget to have a rifle-butt attack (normal HA).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Good god' date=' Man! Is there anything that ISN'T on your eyes-be-damned site?[/quote']

 

Yes; there are no super-pets whatsoever, despite OddHat's best efforts.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Guns as a Multipower?

 

Yes; there are no super-pets whatsoever' date=' despite OddHat's best efforts.[/quote']

You have just wounded my wife.

 

Here's the write-ups I made for said wife's gun collection. Or at least her characters:

 

Combat Shotgun: Multipower, 52-point reserve, (52 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), Mass (-1), STR Minimum (10) (STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Must change clips to change slots (-½) Weight: 4.20kg

 

1) Buckshot: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+¼), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +½) (52 Active Points); OAF (-1), Mass (-1), STR Minimum (10) (STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-½), Must change clips to change slots (-½), 12 Charges (-¼), Limited Range (20"; -¼), Reduced By Range (-¼), Reduced Penetration (-¼), Real Weapon (-¼) Weight: END: [12]

 

2) Standard Slug: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+¼) (37 Active Points); OAF (-1), Mass (-1), STR Minimum (10) (STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-½), Must change clips to change slots (-½), 12 Charges (-¼), Real Weapon (-¼), Beam (-¼), Limited Range (50"; -¼) Weight: END: [12]

 

Autopistol: Multipower, 31-point reserve, (31 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), Mass (-1), STR Minimum (10) (STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Must change clips to change slots (-½) Weight: 1.00kg

 

1) Standard Rounds: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, 15 Charges (+0), Required Hands One-Handed (+0) (20 Active Points); OAF (-1), Mass (-1), STR Minimum (10) (STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Must change clips to change slots (-½), Real Weapon (-¼), Beam (-¼), No Knockback (-¼) Weight: END: [15]

 

2) Hollowpoint Rounds: Killing Attack - Ranged 1 ½d6, 15 Charges (+0), Required Hands One-Handed (+0), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+¼) (31 Active Points); OAF (-1), Mass (-1), STR Minimum (10) (STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Must change clips to change slots (-½), Real Weapon (-¼), Beam (-¼), No Knockback (-¼), Reduced Penetration (-¼) Weight: END: [15]

Nothing spectacular, but illustrates the thought nicely.