Electricity and DCs

[crayadder]

Has anyone created a DC conversion for electrical output? Let's say my char does generates a burst of 40,000 volts - how much damage would that be and what type? I would assume energy (duh) and killing. But what would the die code be?

[Armitage]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Not Volts, but Kilowatts, PSI and amount of TNT.

 

http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/dharchives/flavor.htm

[crayadder]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Thanks for the link. Very handy info that I am going to love using. However, when creating characters based on non-Hero information often I am left with descriptiions like "he can generate a 40,000 volt electric burst." I wouldn't know where to begin comparing volts to kilowatts. Can anyone shed any more light on this?

 

Thanks

[Rapier]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Thanks for the link. Very handy info that I am going to love using. However' date=' when creating characters based on non-Hero information often I am left with descriptiions like "he can generate a 40,000 volt electric burst." I wouldn't know where to begin comparing volts to kilowatts. Can anyone shed any more light on this? [/quote']

 

Volts and watts are two completely different types of measurement (eg gallon and inch). It sounds like you are going from a source, I would convert the effect. If the 40,000 volt burst can burn through a tank, calculate the number of DCs required to regularly burn through a tank and go with that.

[phookz]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Thanks for the link. Very handy info that I am going to love using. However, when creating characters based on non-Hero information often I am left with descriptiions like "he can generate a 40,000 volt electric burst." I wouldn't know where to begin comparing volts to kilowatts. Can anyone shed any more light on this?

 

Thanks

 

Watts = Volts x Amps

 

You would need to know what the amperage is, without that there is no way to derive the wattage. I agree that you should look at the effect, calculate the DC based on that, and run with it. If you're dead-set on using the 40,000 volts, then you can always use the charts linked earlier for the wattage, based on the DC you set the power at, the 40 kv, and then calculate the amperage.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Watts = Volts x Amps

 

You would need to know what the amperage is, without that there is no way to derive the wattage.

 

Yup. 40,000 volts at microamperage wouldn't be enough to scratch your back with.

[crayadder]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

I wish I could go for effect. Unfortunately, my source gives me, in this case, 40,000 volts and that's it. I think whoever wrote the source thought that it was a big enough number that no other info was needed . Maybe this is a good opportunity to create a Voltage to DC chart? I am not familiar with the damage 40,000 volts can do, assuming the amperage is high enough that is, since the research I have done only points to the voltage needed to cause death in a human through burning and/or heart stoppage. If anyone is interested in helping me with this, I'd be greatful. Obviously, there are at least a few of you with greater science backgrounds than I.

[Blade]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Just as a point of reference for you, a .45 pistol delivers about 1,000 W of power (to a square centimeter of area). Usually damage is done by power/area, i.e. if you have a lot of power over a huge area, it does very little damage (solar irradiation: 900 Watts/square meter at the earth's surface--no damage to people, over the short term anyway, vs the .45, which deals the power out over 1/10,000 of the area--hole in person). I realize the mechanisms are different here, but the point is, the damage is done by the power absorbed in an area. Metal cutting lasers (industrial application) cut through plate steel with about 3,000-4,000 Watts (continuous output), concentrated into a spot about 1 square milimeter, and they cut through steel like a hot knife through butter. You are probably are looking at a similar level of power/area, so scale it up to the size hole you want to punch and you will get a power level. Hope that helps.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Not Volts, but Kilowatts, PSI and amount of TNT.

 

http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/dharchives/flavor.htm

 

I hope Steve keeps the link to that, for when he gets around to TUEP....

[gojira]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

From the wikipedia article on lightning:

 

An average bolt of negative lightning carries a current of 30-to-50 kiloamperes(kA), although some bolts can be up to 120kA, and transfers a charge of 5 coulombs and 500 megajoules (enough to light a 100 watt light bulb for 2 months).

 

1 watt = 1 Joule per second (J/sec), so a 60 watt light bulb is 60 joules per second. 500 megajoules will be 500,000,000 watts for one second. Since watts = volts x amps, then 500,000,000 watts @ 50 kA = 10,000 volts for a one second bolt.

 

One way to think about this is that volts is the ability to push through things. 120 volts (house hold voltage) isn't enough to jump through the roughly 1/8 inch of insulation on a power cord. Whereas 10kV is enough to jump from clouds through the atmosphere to the ground. Amperage is what happens after the resistance is over-come. How much the source exceeds the necessary voltage leads to amp flow, and damage.

 

Most power sources don't have infinite capacity to deliver amperage. Lightning bolts and high tension lines are two big exceptions. 40,000 volts from a high voltage line would instantly fry (maybe even disintegrate) a human being, because the reserve amps are there to do as much damage as possible. The lines carrying power in your neighborhood are usually around 7.5kV. These are pretty darn dangerous. I'd assume that 10,000 volts is enough to fry anything you wish. If your character does 40,000 volts, I'd give him some Amour Piercing or Penetrating to simulate the high voltage, then make up some story like "his reserve amperage limits his damage potential" to explain why stuff just doesn't totally disintegrate when he zaps it.

 

My 2 nickels.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Quite some time ago someone on the Hero Mailing List (I think it was Len Carpenter) posted conversions for several different forms of energy, including heat. A lot of it came out very nicely at 100 units (of varying sorts) = 2d6.

 

Maybe I'll try to hunt down a link for it, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

[Rapier]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Part of the problem you will run into is that volts don't really cause damage. It's the wattage that causes the damage. So 40,000 volts doesn't necessarily cause any damage. You will never be able to convert volts to damage. You can use the electricity stuff in the free section to estimate.

 

Your average household runs on about 100 - 150 volts.

Heavy household is about 200 - 250 volts.

Lightning averages about 500,000,000 volts.

High Tension wires are between 750,000 - 1,000,000 volts.

 

I'd guess you are looking for something in the neighbourhood of Light to Heavy Industrial Current (8 - 11d6 Normal for Poorly Grounded and 3 - 4d6 Killing for Well Grounded). That's a pretty good number since most attacks seem to run into the 10 - 14 DC range, which this is.

[gojira]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Two small points.

..It's the wattage that causes the damage.

It's the heat that causes damge. Heat disapated into an object is I^2 x R. So the source voltage is not directly involved, except that it drives the current flow. Current (amperage) squared times resistance is the standard method for calculating heat (wattage) delived to an object.

 

High Tension wires are between 750,000 - 1,000,000 volts.

 

Wikipedia says that high tension lines are 110kV. 220kV or more lines are difficult to build and maintain and not often used. 750kV to 1,000kV seems to be right out. *shrug* I don't know personally.

[Rapier]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Wikipedia says that high tension lines are 110kV. 220kV or more lines are difficult to build and maintain and not often used. 750kV to 1' date='000kV seems to be right out. *shrug* I don't know personally.[/quote']

 

Yep, I didn't read the whole article. I was skimming. I double checked and you are right.

[crayadder]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Just as a point of reference for you' date=' a .45 pistol delivers about 1,000 W of power (to a square centimeter of area). Usually damage is done by power/area, i.e. if you have a lot of power over a huge area, it does very little damage (solar irradiation: 900 Watts/square meter at the earth's surface--no damage to people, over the short term anyway, vs the .45, which deals the power out over 1/10,000 of the area--hole in person). I realize the mechanisms are different here, but the point is, the damage is done by the power absorbed in an area. Metal cutting lasers (industrial application) cut through plate steel with about 3,000-4,000 Watts (continuous output), concentrated into a spot about 1 square milimeter, and they cut through steel like a hot knife through butter. You are probably are looking at a similar level of power/area, so scale it up to the size hole you want to punch and you will get a power level. Hope that helps.[/quote']

 

Good reference, thanks Blade. However, I am dealing with an AOE attack, about a 6" radius. How would that work?

[crayadder]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Gojira and Rapier, you guys rock! I may have to go to school just to understand your responses . Your suggestion for DC is at least something I can work with Rapier. Thanks.

 

Bob, thanks for the heads up on the Len Carpenter? Info. What is the Hero Mailing List though? And how do I search it?

[Blade]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

Good reference' date=' thanks Blade. However, I am dealing with an AOE attack, about a 6" radius. How would that work?[/quote']

 

I'm not sure about the special effects you are going for, but I am picturing a large collection of lightning bolts in the area, maybe looking something like a plasma ball, striking everything within the area. These would still have relatively small impact areas to each person/target within the area, not a single lightning bolt 24 meters across. In any case, for "reality" the 40 kV determines how far the bolt will arc through the air, how much current could be driven (I = V/R), and thus the overall power (P = I*V = V*V/R = I*I*R). If the current source has sufficient amperage capacity, all targets would take the same damage, if they had similar resistance (parrallel circuits--equal voltage drop and equal resistance = equal power dissipation).

 

That all being said, I would give it a reasonable DC rating, and define the power in Watts by the DCs. If a .45 has about 6 DC (2d6 RKA) then we could define each lightning bolt as 2,000 Watts at 12d6N or 4d6 KA and go with it. If you want the AE, the current source is limited, so each target gets a lower Wattage (fewer DC, and the APs stay constant, so the GM is happy....). In any case, power (Wattage) is what counts, not voltage, so just define it that way, or define it in Volts with an amperage capacity to bring you to a reasonable power level. For the description of your character, you just need comic book science anyway, so go with what sounds good.

[crayadder]

Re: Electricity and DCs

 

OK, I've enrolled in Physics 1117 at the College I work at. I should be able to decipher this thread in about 3 months, homework permitting.

 

Actually, that's a good reference Blade, something I can use. Thanks for the effort and for sharing your knowledge.

 

Crayadder