SteveZilla Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness OH, there is one other limiting factor to Find Weakness: It only haves one kind of defense at a time ("normal" vs "resistant"). Armor Piercing havles all of it in one go. Though it is easy to buy Find Weakness to affect several, or all, attacks the character has, doing so with a Naked Advantage Armor Piercing means buying it once for each attack it can be used with. Sean makes a good point, in line with my points (IMO ). Not to derail the thread, this subject is the flip side of the character buying both high defenses and Damage Reduction. Oh! I know! I want to take Autofire on my Damage Reduction to reduce the attack, percentage-wise, multiple times (I.e., a 50% DR that "hits" three times would reduce the attack to 12.5% of it's original, after defenses, value)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted September 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness I didn't really want to start a discussion about whether or not Find Weakness is a good idea. At the moment, I don't really care. This is just theoretical. No doubt it's abusive even without Autofire though, and moreso with. I can think of some situations I'd allow it though. For example, in a psychic wars type campaign I'd allow it with Mental Powers, but only if it costs END. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness OK, ask this question then: what is autofire FW the mechanic describing in game terms, and is it the only way you can do it? At present we seem to be starting with the mechanic. Personally, even if I don't like it much, if it fits a reasonable character ability description I might well let it through, albeit on probation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted September 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness OK, ask this question then: what is autofire FW the mechanic describing in game terms, and is it the only way you can do it? At present we seem to be starting with the mechanic. Personally, even if I don't like it much, if it fits a reasonable character ability description I might well let it through, albeit on probation. Using my example above for a psychic wars campaign, the mechanic would fit the SFX of "Shield Shredder" and similar maneuvers a psychic can use to overrun a target's mental shields. This wouldn't reduce the target's defenses versus other attackers, and it definately reduced defenses by more than half (the idea is to strip them completely). Find Weakness coveres this perfectlly. The idea of applying Autofire is to make the pricess quicker and more efficient, and more exhausting, for the attacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Using my example above for a psychic wars campaign' date=' the mechanic would fit the SFX of "Shield Shredder" and similar maneuvers a psychic can use to overrun a target's mental shields. This wouldn't reduce the target's defenses versus other attackers, and it definately reduced defenses by more than half (the idea is to strip them completely). Find Weakness coveres this perfectlly. The idea of applying Autofire is to make the pricess quicker and more efficient, and more exhausting, for the attacker.[/quote'] I shouldn't nit pick, really, but I would consider 'shield shredder' to be a mechanic description rather than an sfx that the mechanic describes. Even so, if you want a shield shredder, you know, pretty much, that the 'shield' in question is going to be mental defence. This can be targetted with a drain or even a supress, which you can make RSR on an opposed roll if you like, which would do pretty much the same. Pretty much. I mean it would actually be shredding the shield rather than finding a way through it for you alone. If you want a way through for you alone, buy the attack as NND, or AP: much cleaner and less problematic. Then again, as I've said, I don't lke FW, so that would be my approach, wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness If you want a way through for you alone, buy the attack as NND, or AP: much cleaner and less problematic. Then again, as I've said, I don't lke FW, so that would be my approach, wouldn't it? True. NND is definately an option, but I can't easily built a mechanic that does what I want. Find Weakness does it exactly the way I want. Then again, this is just a silly theoretical example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness True. NND is definately an option' date=' but I can't easily built a mechanic that does what I want. Find Weakness does it exactly the way I want. Then again, this is just a silly theoretical example.[/quote'] Another approach that might help simplify the record keeping and still keep the desired effect of making the defense reduction only usable by the 1 attacker would be to just buy extra dice of the particular Mental Power with the limitations: Only to reduce Mental Defenses & RSR. This approach does change things drasticly for Elemental Control based Mental powers but Multipowers and VPP's would just need to increase the pool size to accomodate the ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Haven't read the whole thread, but there's no way I would allow AF on FW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Just a pet peeve question, but how does everybody else tell the difference between Find Weakness and Force Wall when people appreviate them both as FW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Another approach that might help simplify the record keeping and still keep the desired effect of making the defense reduction only usable by the 1 attacker would be to just buy extra dice of the particular Mental Power with the limitations: Only to reduce Mental Defenses & RSR. This approach does change things drasticly for Elemental Control based Mental powers but Multipowers and VPP's would just need to increase the pool size to accomodate the ability. Yeah, and that's part of what's bugging me. There's potential of this applying to a player character, and the character in question has an EC. I suppose I could have her buy a Naked NND (vs Lack of Weakness) for her Ego Attack or whatever, with RSR and Extra Time Limitations. It wouldn't be at all like Find Weakness, but it gets the same job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Just a pet peeve question' date=' but how does everybody else tell the difference between Find Weakness and Force Wall when people appreviate them both as FW?[/quote'] Context, its all by context (and the thread title). What else could the phrase "AF on FW" mean? Autofire Forcewall?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Just a pet peeve question' date=' but how does everybody else tell the difference between Find Weakness and Force Wall when people appreviate them both as FW?[/quote'] OK, FWe and FWa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMike Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Hmmm... a shield shredder.... How about a linked drain? You know, everytime the blast hits the shields get weaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness OK, FWe and FWa? I was thinking Find Weakness and FW personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness How about FiWe and FoWa? Strange, that reminds me of something about an English man... Instead of FiWe, You could limit the Ranged Drain so that it only lowers the defense Vs. your attacks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Flee, fie, I'll FiWe on your FoWa And I'll grind your bones You.....maybe not..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monster Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Autofire Find Weakness!? Sorry, in my game it just wouldn't exist. Period. Even if it did, the only possible result would be to cut the defenses in half. The only possible application for AF/FWk (how's THAT for an abbreviation? Pronounce it carefully!) would be to affect multiple targets. For a "shield shredder" I would suggest a Drain, especially if it reduces the targets' defense against all attacks of that kind. Even then, I'd keep a hard eye on it in design and in play - Draining defenses is way too cheap to trust as a build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Winger Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness FiWe is the perfect way to model my cybernetic evil eye of scanning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummibear Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Personally I like the idea of AF Force Wall. Just think of that silly thing. A 5/5 FW with AF 5. Roll to hit the area (DCV3) and you get 5 shells. So anybody has to get through 25 body to even do any stun. Ok, so I just went to ludicrous speed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Re: Autofire Find Weakness Personally I like the idea of AF Force Wall. Just think of that silly thing. A 5/5 FW with AF 5. Roll to hit the area (DCV3) and you get 5 shells. So anybody has to get through 25 body to even do any stun. Ok, so I just went to ludicrous speed.... Yeah, but a 1 pip RKA + Penetrating will still go though all of it! And for regular atacks, every 5 Body rolled will take down one of the shells. Which makes it kinda like Ablative... Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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